This is the direction I've believed the NCAA should've gone with on this issue.
It also gets me closer to playing a new NCAA Football game which I'm all for.
Texas Hawk 10
9941 posts
@FarmerJayhawk Mitch played the 5 out of necessity, not convenience. Mitch's game is built to play a stretch 4 role. Getting to play his natural position is going to help him out and make him look better. The 70% number isn't some random number I pulled out of thin air. Mitch was 72% from the stripe as a sophomore. That was also a season where Mitch shot 35% from 3. Mitch took 25 FT's that season and 35 as a junior and regressed for some reason. Mitch is definitely capable of hitting those numbers again and I think playing his natural position will make him feel more comfortable on the floor. Even with that regression from the FT line and from 3, Mitch was still at 61% from 2 which he did as a sophomore and junior.
Mitch doesn't need to take a lot of shots, playing 20-25 mpg, Mitch would probably end up taking 4-5 shots per game with most of those coming off of screen or pick where he either pops a 3 or gets an easy lay up rolling to basket off that action.
With your best line up, which end of the floor are you talking about? Offense or defense because it isn't the same line up depending on which end of the floor.
If you want the best offensive line up, Ochai Agbaji is not on the floor for that because he's still not good offensively yet. I said in a post above what I think the best offensive line up is and you'll notice I have Braun and Thompson in that line up because you can stick one on the wing on the away from the screen, the other shooter in the corner screen side and Dave on the baseline on the block opposite the screen side and you have spacing and room to work for everyone.
@BShark And I think you're wrong about that. Is the offense going to good as last season? Probably not because Dave isn't Doke and won't shoot 75% from the field.
Will the offense look like it did last season? It shouldn't be a clone because this roster doesn't have the same strengths as last season, but there should be elements of last year's offense that will still play to this group's strengths.
Dave, unlike Doke, can hit a shot from more than 5' so defenders have to stay with Dave when he's in the mid-range otherwise he'll beat teams from there all game long. This means Dave has to be guarded away from the basket, unlike Doke, so defenders can't camp in the lane which will help open up the paint.
Garrett and Dotson are pretty similar offensively in that neither are great shooters and both got most of their offense driving the ball. Garrett's biggest strength is driving the ball. Lightfoot's biggest strength on offense is setting screens for others. Lightfoot is also capable of knocking down 3's at 35% (sophomore year). Combine Mitch screening and picking on the perimeter for the guards along with Dave's ability to hit a mid-range shot opens the paint for Garrett to drive.
With a line up of Garrett/Thompson/Agabji/Lightfoot/McCormack on the floor, Agbaji is the one that teams will be doubling off of Agbaji because Agabji is the worst offensive player in that group.
KU's best offensive line up next season will be Garrett/Thompson/Braun/Lightfoot/McCormack.
@FarmerJayhawk said in Mitch:
@drgnslayr said in Mitch:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Mitch:
If we play Mitch 25 MPG at the 4 we’re so, so screwed. He’s a good shot blocker and effort guy but I really don’t know what else he gives us.
I think Mitch gives us a lot. He's a guy who will stop opposition scoring and will win us possessions. He will give us consistency. 50/50 balls. He helps our guys with team confidence. And he's a glue guy. He will also find ways to get his points. I'm sure he has focused on scoring in his year off. Teamed with Marcus and we will be one of the better defensive teams in the nation.
Sounds perfect for 10-15 MPG backing up Dave. I’m not trying to knock Mitch, he’s just limited offensively and can’t defend on the perimeter. Good shot blocker, ok rebounder for his size. We become incredibly easy to defend if he and McCormack play together. Paint is clogged, Garrett can’t drive, and we’re left with 1 guy that can shoot (Bryce). Would make Dave and Doke lineups look like the Warriors from 5 years ago.
You say Mitch is going to play 10-15 mpg backing up McCormack. My question then would be where does KU's other senior post player fit into that picture then? Silvio sure isn't coming back to KU to ride the bench his senior year. And Mitch didn't redshirt to play the same number of minutes he could've played on a better team last season. I think you are underestimating Mitch and will be wrong on what Mitch will contribute next season and what position he will play.
Mitch isn't backing Dave up and he will play 20-25 mpg at the 4 because he is the best option at that spot. Keep underestimating him like people here have done his entire career. He's not going to be spending a lot of time down low on the post because that's not his game either. His PER for his career is 14.8 which higher than the other know options at that spot other than TGF who we don't know how well he'll actually do yet and what kind of adjustment period he'll go through. 14.8 is the same as Braun, but Braun probably backs up the 1-3 spots this as a universal sub like he did the last part of last season. Ochai Agbaji who spent a lot of time at the 4 in the 4 guard look had a PER of 13.1 last year and Tristan Enaruna had a PER of 9. Jalen Wilson was a -67 for his very limited minutes in his 2 games last year and still wouldn't have been very good even factoring the two exhibition games where he shot a combined 3-13 for 9 points in 40 minutes. Lightfoot is the best option at this point at the 4 spot.
Out of Lightfoot, Enaruna, and Wilson, Mitch is by far the best defender out of the 3, I'm going to reserve judgement on TGF because JuCo players can be very hit of miss at the high major D1 level. Does Mitch get blown by? Yes, but unlike the other options, Mitch adapted to that by becoming a very good backside shot blocker to compensate.
On offense, KU shouldn't look the same as last year because that 2 man game with Doke and Dotson/Garrett isn't going to be as effective. I'm sure we'll still see it at times, but that shouldn't be the primary offensive look this year, especially with Dave and Mitch together. You're worried about the lane being clogged because of what happened last year.
That happened because Doke couldn't make a shot outside of 5' last year so there was no reason to go with him beyond 5'.
The difference this season on offense will be that Dave is a capable mid-range shooter which means defenders have to go out with him when Dave is 15'-18' away from the basket and I'm betting the biggest thing Dave is working on offensively is extending his range to 3 point territory to hit that top of the key and baseline 3's. Mitch on offense isn't someone who needs the ball or will be spending a lot of time in the post area. He will be out on the perimeter doing what he does best on offense, setting picks and screens for the guards to drive or get open looks from 3. This is where most of his points will come from is of off the pick or screen and rolls where his man abandons him. If he gets back to what did as a sophomore hitting 35% from 3, that's exactly what KU needs from the 4 spot this year because that's not the position where scoring needs to come from this year because the 4 will be the weakest position for KU on both ends this season.
This is what I'm expecting Mitch's stat line to look like next season. 20-25 mpg, 5-7 PPG, 4-5 rpg, 1-2 apg, 2 bpg while shooting about 60% from the field, 35% from 3, and about 70% from the FT line.
@BeddieKU23 said in Mitch:
Self has hinted he'll likely stick with the 4 guard lineup. I also believe that's how he gets his best 5 of the floor. He has a lot of mouths to feed on the perimeter. Garrett, Ochai, Braun are locked in already to starter's minutes. Enaruna is back and Harris is eligible, then you add in Thompson. Grant-Foster could be a wing or the ideal 4 at his size/athletic ability. I see Grant-Foster & Braun playing primarily at the 4 position next season. There's a lot of flexibility for Self here and he has tremendous size on the perimeter once again. Then you have Wilson. I have no idea what Self will do with him or how much he'll play. The 4 guard lineup looks like its here to stay!
There's really not a lot of mouths to feed on the perimeter. There's more front court players than guards on the roster this season. Garrett, Thompson, Braun, and Ochai, will get minutes for sure. I can easily see Dajuan Harris not getting big minutes this season because Christian Braun is a capable PG as well and ran point occasionally last year when Dotson and Garrett were off the floor.
The 4 spot is where the glut is because that's where 4 of the players natural position is. Self has only used the 4 guard line up because of a lack of 4's capable of playing on the perimeter and spacing. This season, KU will have multiple guys capable of filling that stretch 4 spot.
Keep underestimating Lightfoot and he's going to overperform to expectations since that's what he does.
He's not going to lead the team in scoring because that's not his role. He can get others open setting screens better than anyone else which will be critical to getting Marcus open lanes to drive to the basket. He's also the best shot blocker on the team and best help defender which will be critical for Dave since Dave isn't nearly as good as Doke on defense.
Mitch is a complementary player who whose strengths on both ends of the floor perfectly complement KU's two most important players next season.
@Crimsonorblue22 said in Mitch:
I'm looking forward to seeing Mitch play. It'll be a sad sr speech pm for him, the guy loves KU. I think it depends on matchups how we play him, I see him playing the 4 if we're playing teams w/2 posts. He may have to play some 5, with BD's foul problems, but I don't see Mitch as a 5. I guess I'm so use to us having big Doke😢
Dave doesn't have foul issues. He averaged under 5 per 40 minutes last season. The game he fouled out in 5 minutes was the anomaly game for him, not the norm.
@FarmerJayhawk said in Can Bryce Thompson shoot?:
Source for stats. http://uaa.io/teamstats.aspx?path=17u&year=2019&school=oklahoma%20run%20pwp ↗
Sub 70% from the FT line is concerning to me about how good a shooter he really is. How many guards has Self had shoot sub 70% from the FT line, but we're still good 3 point shooters?
@BeddieKU23 said in Can Bryce Thompson shoot?:
Very good Shooter. No worries there. Will be 1st/2nd best on the team
Are you basing this solely on videos, belief, or is there empirical evidence that backs up your position? His AAU numbers from last summer suggest Bryce isn't good from deep yet.
@BeddieKU23 said in Mitch:
The thing I hope Mitch has improved during his time is confidence. Usually that comes with players in year 5 under Self. We'll see what Mitch is made of
Confidence has never been an issue for Mitch. His first 3 years, people kept saying Mitch won't play or won't play that many minutes and he always found a way on the floor for more minutes than anyone anticipated from him. 14 mpg as a sophomore and 12 mpg as a junior were more than anyone projected for him at the time.
KU's roster composition likely indicates Self isn't going to be playing a lot of 4 guard line ups this upcoming season. Mitch at the 5 is not ideal because of his lack of size. Self isn't going to have a lot of playable back court depth next season.
Garrett, Thompson, Agbaji, Braun will for sure get rotation level minutes in the back court. McCormack, DeSousa, and Lightfoot should all get rotation level minutes in the front court. Enaruna, Wilson, Grant-Foster, and Harris are probably fighting for that 8th spot with Harris probably having an edge because he's a PG. We did see Braun run the point on occasion last season when both Garrett and Dotson were off the floor so my guess is he's the back up to start with unless Harris is ready to go from day 1.
Enaruna, Wilson, Grant-Foster have to hit shots from outside to play the stretch 4 spot next season. If not, they're going to be limited to spot minutes. I think Lightfoot will be limited to 20-25 mpg instead of playing 30+ mpg because of his offense.
I will also say this, I believe KU is going to be an offensively challenged team next season. Braun appears to be the only reliable outside shooter. I don't think he duplicates his 44% performance next season due to increased volume and more attention from the defense, but he should be a 40-42% range. Ideally, Garrett bumps up to 35% and hopefully 2 of Lightfoot, Enaruna, Wilson, and TGF can also hit at least 35%. Without that though, the offense is going to be much more reminiscent of 2018-19 version of the offense which isn't good. The defense will be better than that season, but there will be a drop-off from last season because of not having Doke in the middle.
@kjayhawks I can't find his HS stats from last season, but in AAU last summer, he only shot 31% from 3. It's not a huge sample, but I'm sure the competition was much better than HS so probably a better comparison to what he might do at KU. That data says he's probably not going to be lighting it up from deep on a regular basis.
Talk about a what if scenario. KU was runner up for both Beal and Otto Porter in 2011. Does KU win the title that year with those two on the team along with the other pieces KU had?
@jayballer73 said in Other bball news:
Well lookie there, Coach K ought to just be tickled pink. - - Hurt returning for his Soph year. - -WOW what a surprise lol
Hurt wasn't projected to be drafted so not that surprising.
@jayballer73 said in 2021 Recruiting:
Made the top 6 for a pretty decent player Kevan Parker , from Booker T Washington out of Tulsa Oklahoma. - -CB 5'11 173 pounds.
He has Arkansas , Baylor , Michigan State , Nebraska , SMU & KU - -would be a sweet get , not holding my breath but you neve know with Les , & the boys/
Need to get Bryce Thompson in his ear on that one.
Under normal circumstances, I could've seen him declaring to go through the process and see if he got a combine invite and then back out later on after he got his feedback.
Devon needs to be prepared to spend a lot of his first couple of seasons down in the G-League. His speed and athleticism are elite even at the NBA level so that alone will intrigue franchises and buy him some time to develop.
I know quite a few of people have said he needs to work on his shooting, and he does, but that's not what will get him to stick in the NBA.
There's two areas that he can develop and become a 12 year NBA player. His passing and his defense. Dotson needs to become a floor general. If he can get himself to a 3:1 or even 4:1 Assist/Turnover ratio, Dotson will be a highly sought after player. Dotson's quickness also means he has the potential to develop into an elite level defender in the Pat Beverly territory.
In a stronger draft class, I would say it'd be more advisable for someone like Dotson to return, but as weak as this class is, Dotson's stock is as high as it will get for the NBA so leaving this year makes the most sense for him.
@Kcmatt7 There would be some questions that need answering as well before making that decision.
In regards to the invitations, you could do that online if if you really need to and have the ability to contact everyone that you were planning on inviting to RSVP.
I have multiple friends getting married or were supposed to be getting married this spring and summer that have done different things. I had one friend that postponed until next year, but I they're wedding was originally in early May and they want to wait and have a big ceremony.
Another couple is still going through with the ceremony and making it legal in June (going to the JoP), but they're going to wait until either Thanksgiving or Christmas time this year to have the reception and celebrate with friends and family.
The other person I know getting married is a late July wedding and they're in pretty much the same boat as you. The bride is originally from Ohio and groom is from Houston, the ceremony is supposed to be in Ohio, but they're trying to figure out how many from his family would still feel safe traveling to Ohio at that point. Once they figure that out, they're going to ask our friend group who's still comfortable with going up there to make any necessary changes to the groomsmen or bridal party. If they don't have enough of his family feeling comfortable traveling up there, they've said they'll cancel the ceremony in Ohio, but aren't sure yet whether they'll reschedule for next summer up there, or have the ceremony down here and do a reception for her family up in Ohio at a later date.
My advice would be to figure out how important having a ceremony is, then figuring out travel for out of town family and friends if that's needed if the ceremony is important. Then maybe start looking at future dates to put a reservation in for in case your current date ends up not working out. If y'all decide the ceremony isn't that important to y'all, you could go down to the JoP and get married there and then have a reception later on to celebrate when it's safe to do so and everyone is comfortable with a large gathering again.
Dotson is the type of player the G-League was intended for. He does have an elite level ability in his speed and quickness, but still needs a lot of refinement in his game. I would expect Dotson to spend a lot of time down there in his first couple of seasons and if he develops down there, he could become a very valuable asset in the NBA, if not it's off to overseas for a decade plus long career playing in different international leagues.
@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Transfer List:
I get your point. Different times today. I absolutely want Wilson here as I was a big fan of his in HS. Its just difficult to see where he plays a lot and subsequently doesnt get discouraged from it
Jalen Wilson committed to Kansas knowing full well KU still had Some, Silvio, McCormack, and Lightfoot coming back last season with a strong chance David and Silvio would still be around with a solid chance of Mitch being around next season. I'm also sure the coaching staff was very upfront with Wilson during his recruitment that there was a good possibility he wouldn't see many meaningful minutes his first couple of seasons in Lawrence.
Jalen Wilson was a borderline top 50 recruit in a really weak class. He committed to KU knowing full well there was a possibility he wasn't going to play a whole lot his first two years.
The only player currently committed to KU that I can see not playing in Lawrence next season is Latrell Jossell and that's only if Self recruits over him before the summer.
@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Transfer List:
I still think immediate transfer will shake something from the current roster. If your Wilson how are you cracking the top 10 in the rotation? Just thoughts
Realistically, Wilson probably isn't in the rotation next season as he's probably 4th in that mix, maybe 5th depending on how Self uses Enaruna next season.
2012-22 is when Jalen and Tristan start emerging into more featured roles after Silvio and Mitch are gone. Dave should still be around then so you could conceivably see a senior Dave and a sophomore Jalen as the starting front court in 2012-22 for KU and Jalen sliding over to the 5 with Tristan at the 4 in a small ball line up.
I'm not forgetting about Gethro, I just don't think he'll be ready for a bigger role until after Dave is gone. I think it's pretty likely he redshirts this season (assuming it happens) because he should be buried pretty deep on the depth chart and he needs to add size to his frame anyway. He's got that Jeff Withey body type of naturally being skinny and it took Jeff about 3 years to get to where he wasn't getting bullied on the floor every night. Gethro has a similar body type where it'll be hard to put on a lot of mass and a redshirt year where he focuses on his body mostly would be a huge benefit for him long term.
The question for Jalen there would be is he patient enough to wait his turn. If he transfers, he's not playing wherever he ends up next season versus sitting behind Dave, Mitch, and Silvio next year as the potential 4th big and still getting a few minutes just about every night. The biggest thing Jalen needs to develop in his game a solid 3 point shot. He needs to get north of 35% to be able to play the 4 spot at KU because he's already going to be a defensive liability for KU at that spot since his athleticism is in the same neighborhood as Perry Ellis and Dedric Lawson.
As long we're competitive by then, and I don't see why we wouldn't be at that point, I'm down for it. I've always wanted the rivalry to renew so we could get back to winning record against those dirty slavers.
@SlickRockJayhawk said in Game Changer at the center position:
@Texas-Hawk-10 If D-mac takes another step forward next year, he'll be a top-5 forward in the country, no question. Right now, he has more NBA potential than any other player on next-year's roster.
McCormack can't guard on the perimeter in college, how's he going to do that in the NBA? That's why he's a 5 and always will be a 5 in college and at the next level.
Haarms is listed at 7'3" and his career rebounding rate is sub 13%. His high is 13.8% as a sophomore. I cannot stress just how bad that number is for someone his size. That means he has terrible hands and is soft as baby poo on the glass.
Shot blocking is the only above average skill he has. Haarms is someone who needs to drop to the mid major level to increase his profile, not come to a place like KU and get exposed even further as being Eric Chenowith levels of soft.
@SlickRockJayhawk said in Game Changer at the center position:
7-foot-3 center Matt Haarms transferring from Purdue
This dude would fit in perfectly with David MacCormick playing the foward position who knock down the mid-range, and Mitch bringing the toughness to the front court. If we can land this Matt Haarms, we're definitely final-four worthy next year.
No, McCormack wasn't good at the 4 last season.
@approxinfinity said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
Hard to imagine a world where Creighton is a one seed in the Midwest and Kansas is a 2 seed in the South... But ESPN has quite the imagination.
Is that for next season?
@jayballer73 said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
@jayballer73 said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
I guess there have been several scenario's/possibilities tossed out by AD's for solutions to the upcoming season. One is bringing back ONLY Student Athletes and starting on time , but playing in empty stadiums. - That seems kind of pointless to me. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
The reason every league worldwide discussed playing in empty venues is all about $$$. Leagues have to play a certain number of games to meet the minimum requirements to get paid. The NBA has a 70 game minimum which is why they've talked about pushing the season back to August and starting next season in December as a possibility.
College athletics is the same deal. Schools and conferences won't make money unless they provide games for broadcast. This is also why Dana White and Vince McMahon have still been putting out new content to meet their TV requirements for UFC and WWE.
But is butts in the stands where the revenue comes from?
Some, but the majority comes from TV distribution deals.
@jayballer73 said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
I guess there have been several scenario's/possibilities tossed out by AD's for solutions to the upcoming season. One is bringing back ONLY Student Athletes and starting on time , but playing in empty stadiums. - That seems kind of pointless to me. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
The reason every league worldwide discussed playing in empty venues is all about $$$. Leagues have to play a certain number of games to meet the minimum requirements to get paid. The NBA has a 70 game minimum which is why they've talked about pushing the season back to August and starting next season in December as a possibility.
College athletics is the same deal. Schools and conferences won't make money unless they provide games for broadcast. This is also why Dana White and Vince McMahon have still been putting out new content to meet their TV requirements for UFC and WWE.
@nwhawkfan said in Games on tv:
Watching the 2012 final, I forgot what a good shot blocker Jeff Withey was. Couldn't really translate that to the pros though.
Of course Anthony Davis has gotten most of the pub since then, and deservedly so in retrospect. He had as many blocks as points (6) in the championship game. But he did get outrebounded by T-Rob, 17 to 16.
Withey and T-Rob were too one dimensional as players to stick in the NBA long term. Neither had much offensive skill to their games. Withey was a defensive specialist and Robinson was a rebounding specialist. AD is insanely skilled because of how late his growth spurt was. He was a 6'2" until late in high school so he developed his game as a PG because of that. AD is a unique talent in basketball because of that.
@wissox said in Games on tv:
Since I was in the dome in 2012, I've never seen the game so I'm watching it right now. Still amazed I got to attend a NC game, but at 50 bucks a ticket, it was hard to pass up. That Kentucky team was so good even Cal couldn't screw it up and won his NC.
It's still amazing to me how Self's least talented team by far, Connor Teahan, Kevin Young, and Justin Wesley was bench, made it to the national title game that year. That season was by far Self's best coaching job.
Right now, ESPN is showing Kobe's final game against the Jazz. This game featured a pair of Jayhawks with Tarik Black for the Lakers and Jeff Withey for the Jazz.
Not a KU game, but involves a KU legend. 5pm Central today, ESPN is showing game 6 of the 2008 NBA Finals so you can watch Paul Pierce win his only NBA Championship while earning MVP honors for the series.
ESPN is showing this game to honor Kevin Garnett's HOF induction which was announced today along with Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant. ESPN will be showing other great games from Kobe and Duncan on ESPN throughout the day today for those interested.
@nwhawkfan said in Games on tv:
Later the ref who made the call said it was so close on the line that if Jo Jo had worn different color sneakers he might have called the shot good.
My main gripe with the movie (like every Disney sports movie) is that they're so busy trying to create a feel-good atmosphere that they can't get the details right. Like the mention of "Division I basketball," a term that didn't exist back then. And KU playing in white-and-red uniforms?
Very little about that movie is historically accurate. At least 90% of the details in based on true story movies are made up.
These are the three most egregious errors about the team specifically that the movie ignores. Don Haskins got hired by Texas Western in 1961. Texas Western had already broken their color barrier before awhile before Haskins ever set foot in El Paso. There were already 3 black players on the TW roster when Haskins was hired including Nolan Richardson.
Second egregious error to me was that all of the black players recruited after Haskins were in the same recruiting class. Some were, but not all of them. Harry Flournoy and Orsten Artis were seniors, Bobby Joe Hill and Neville She'd were juniors, and Willie Cager, David Lattin, and Willie Worsley were sophomores. This was still at a time when freshmen weren't allowed to played on the varsity team so none of those players were actually freshmen.
Third egregious error. Portraying TW as a school coming out of nowhere to win the title. That team was a title contender 2 years prior in 1964 and an NIT team in 1965 when the NIT was still a loaded tournament and TW was a top 10 team for a big chunk of the 1965-66 season.
There's plenty of other fabrication in the movie, but those are the 3 biggest ones to me. It's a good movie, but twisting reality is not a problem unique to Disney when making a "based on a true story" or sports movie.
Friday Night Lights was not a Disney movie and there's almost nothing about that movie that was historically accurate.
@drgnslayr said in 2020-21 Season: Will it happen?:
What are your thoughts on the coming season. Will it happen?
I have my doubts.
I think the only way it can happen is if we either come up with an effective vaccine or an effective treatment to reduce to death count.
Please... if someone has some positive light... shine it here!
I wouldn't be surprised if it's delayed or cancelled at this point. Singapore which was on top of this before just about anyone else and was to the point of easing restrictions has had to go back in quarantine and social distancing.
Until there's an effective treatment, vaccine on the market, or we know more about re-infection rates, stuff is going to keep getting pushed back.
@bmensch1 said in Best College Player to Wear Each Jersey Number:
Doug McDermott over Iverson...or Chris Paul????
Bob Lanier over Wes Unseld or Reggie Miller???
and one of the top 3 basketball players of all time is bill russell with his number 6.
This list is COLLEGE ONLY. They did not include any number that ended in 6-9 so that's why Russell is nowhere to be found and I have him 6th on my list. This list is also ONLY college years, not professional. McDermott played all 4 years while Iverson and Paul only played 2 years of college basketball. Speaking specifically on college careers, McDermott had better college career than Iverson or Paul. Their NBA careers are obviously a different story.
@drgnslayr said in Best College Player to Wear Each Jersey Number:
Wow.... Pete Maravich over Michael Jordan!
This is college only, MJ was a really good player at UNC, but he wasn't MJ yet. Pistol Pete averaged 44.2 ppg for his college career. Is still the NCAA all time leading scorer by over 400 points and has the 1st, 4th, and 5th most total points in a single season. Just imagine how far out of reach that record would be if freshmen were allowed to play back then, he'd be pushing 5,000 career points.
MJ obviously had the better teams and better NBA career, but Pete Maravich is a top 5 all time college basketball player and MJ isn't. My top 5 college players would be Walton, Alcindor, Chamberlain, Robertson, and Maravich in that order.
Here's all their choices for each number.
0: Frank Mason (Kansas)
00: Tony Delk (Kentucky)
1: Jalen Brunson (Villanova)
2: Russ Smith (Louisville)
3: Doug McDermott (Creighton)
4: Larry Johnson (UNLV)
5: Jason Kidd (Cal)
10: Otis Birdsong (Houston)
11: Jerry Lucas (Ohio State)
12: Oscar Robertson (Cincinnati)
13: Wilt Chamberlain (Kansas)
14: Johnny Neumann (Ole Miss)
15: Carmelo Anthony (Syracuse)
20: Chris Mullin (St. John's)
21: Tim Duncan (Wake Forest)
22: Elgin Baylor (Seattle)
23: Pete Maravich (LSU)
24: Rick Berry (Miami)
25: Danny Manning (Kansas)
30: Stephen Curry (Davidson)
31: Bob Lanier (St. Bonaventure)
32: Bill Walton (UCLA)
33: Lew Alcindor (UCLA)
34: Austin Care (Notre Dame)
35: Kevin Durant (Texas)
40: Calbert Cheaney (Indiana)
41: Glen Rice (Michigan)
42: Bill Bradley (Princeton)
43: Mychal Thompson (Minnesota)
44: David Thompson (NC State)
45: Raef LaFrentz (Kansas)
50: Ralph Sampson (Virginia)
51: Michael Doleac (Utah)
52: James Worthy (North Carolina)
53: Artis Gilmore (Jacksonville)
54: Marques Johnson (UCLA)
55: Dikembe Mutumbo (Georgetown)
The Athletic did a cool story where some of their writers picked the best college basketball player wear each jersey number was. The limited their decisions to players who played post WWII and only jerseys that end in the numbers 0-5 so there was no Bill Russell since he wore 6. KU actually had the most players as the best to wear a specific number with 4 players. They also did an honorable mention for each number as well. Frank Mason was their choice for 0, Wilt for 13, Danny for 25, and LaFrentz was the pick for 45.
Other KU players that were honorable mentions were Thomas Robinson and Drew Gooden for 0. Nick Collision for 4 and Paul Pierce for 34.
The number 4 was one of the most stacked numbers as evidenced by Sherron and Devonte not even being honorable mention. Their choice for the best 4 in college history was Larry Johnson while the honorable mention players were JJ Redick, Chris Webber, Kenyon Martin, Andrew Bogut, and Victor Oladipo along with Collision. I can't even really argue against Sherron and Devonte being excluded because all of those players were NPOY's during their careers.
As for 34, they went with Austin Carr which I can't argue against.
They also didn't do a specific spot for 00 but mentioned it with the 0 group. Darrell Arthur and Greg Ostertag. KU would have a pretty formidable line up with just the players to wear 0 or 00 in the last 25 years. Their choice for the best 00 was Tony Delk.
A couple of numbers I disagreed with was 15 where they picked Carmelo Anthony. I would've gone with Kemba Walker for that one. The other one with a lot of debate was 35 where they picked Kevin Durant over Danny Ferry and Chris Jackson. I would probably go Ferry, Jackson, Durant for that number.
Most of the debates were actually over the honorable mention players not included which I was surprised Derrick Coleman wasn't even honorable mention for 44. A lot of people had issue with that oversight.
It's an interesting read if you have the subscription to the Athletic.
@kjayhawks said in Trouble:
@Texas-Hawk-10 so Beaty sucks a little a bit less, a loss is a loss. We were still down numerous scholarships after both. I’ll agree Weis crippled the place Beaty just didn’t do much to help.
Beaty did a lot more than you're willing to give credit for. You constantly ignore the fact that KU was never going to fix the scholarship situation in one recruiting cycle because of how bad Weis messed it up. Not only did Weis get the total numbers in the garbage, he messed the balance in the class sizes as well. Go back and look at the senior class sizes under Beaty, it alternated between sub 15 senior classes and 25+ senior classes. Beaty did a pretty good job of fixing that issue. The next recruiting cycle was always going to be the one that fixed the total numbers. And you can go back and check my posts on this topic over the last 6 years and it has not changed. I have said for the last 6 years that it was going to take 2 full recruiting cycles (8-10 years) to completely fix the mess Charlie Weis left behind.
That's ultimately why Beaty was hired, his $800k salary to start with is evidence of this, was to fix the scholarship situation and if he got wins that was a bonus. He took KU from a joke of a program to a program that was knocking on the doorstep of a bowl game. Despite my "hard on" for Beaty, I've never said he was the man to finish that job, and as soon as Miles finds a QB, he will be able to get KU back into bowl games.
@kjayhawks said in Trouble:
@Texas-Hawk-10 because you said Beaty was admirable, if you said Weis was admirable. I’d said similar about him. They both are terrible head coaches. Close the book and let’s move on lol.
Again, you completely ignored the context of the comment because you are incapable of being objective about the situation.
Here's the sentence for you for context.
He was hired to clean up the mess Weis left behind and did an admirable job of starting a process that was always a 2 recruiting cycles rebuild (8-10 years).
He made KU more competitive in his last season. Only 3 losses by 20+ points compared to 8 such losses in his first season. Charlie Weis had 6 20+ point losses in his last full season and both of his losses in 2014 before he was fired were 20+ point losses.
That's the difference between Weis and Beaty, KU was noticeably better team by Beaty's final season than they were during his first season. The same cannot be said of KU under Weis.
@kjayhawks said in Trouble:
@Texas-Hawk-10 whoa never said anything about Weis being better. He’s slightly worse but both suck
You pretty strongly imply it by ignoring every single comparison I've made between the two and taking that as me having a hard on for Beaty because he's from Texas while ignoring my actual points.
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
Intriguing option as a rim protector/rebound specialist https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-otchere-1.html ↗
Won AEC DPOY playing 17 MPG and played JuCo ball at Garden. Career 13% block percentage and 15% rebound percentage. For reference, last year Doke was 11 and 21 respectively.
That's a hard pass from me. He got worse in just about every category except rebounding last season and the 17% total rebounding rate he had isn't that good for a player his size in that league.
Best case scenario is he's Dave's back up, but I'd still rather have Silvio over this guy.
If we have a spot and need a garbage man, there’s not really a downside.
^^^
If we end up with an open spot, a shooter is a much greater need than a 4th string center. I also seriously doubt he'd want to go somewhere to sit on the bench.
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
Intriguing option as a rim protector/rebound specialist https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-otchere-1.html ↗
Won AEC DPOY playing 17 MPG and played JuCo ball at Garden. Career 13% block percentage and 15% rebound percentage. For reference, last year Doke was 11 and 21 respectively.
That's a hard pass from me. He got worse in just about every category except rebounding last season and the 17% total rebounding rate he had isn't that good for a player his size in that league.
Best case scenario is he's Dave's back up, but I'd still rather have Silvio over this guy.
I would as well but I’m always intrigued by guys with an elite skill to fill out your “bullpen.” If we have a spot and need a garbage man, there’s not really a downside.
None of his skills are elite though. Silvio had a better rebounding and block rate than this kid last season. Otchere is also a big black hole on offense as his PER was 12 last year. Otchere was also a worse FT shooter than Doke. The one thing Otchere is good at, KU has two guys (Silvio and Mitch) that are just as good or better considering the level of competition involved.
A career block rate of 13 is fantastic. He and Withey had the same career high. Did you ignore the caveat that I’m intrigued as a D specialist? Not asking him to be Doke.
I also saw the significant drop off from his first to second season at Stony Brook in every relevant category except rebounding where he went from bad to average for his size. Silvio had a higher block rate than he did last season. 10% last season is still good, but it's against crap competition and that's literally the only thing he's good at and KU has two guys in Silvio and Mitch that are comparable in that category.
To be fair, Silvio probably played similar competition during mopup time 😂. If we need a guy, I like the fit. Massive too: 6-11, 7-6 wingspan. Come in, give a few fouls, defend, sit down.
I don't see it with him. Why would this guy who would have multiple DNP's be worth looking at for a program like KU when KU has multiple people that can do what he does as well or better.
He might be good for a mid major program, but for a P5 school with plenty of front court depth, there's nothing about him that's intriguing to me, even as a guy to eat couple of minutes if Dave, Silvio, Mitch, and Gethro all got into foul issues.
@kjayhawks said in Trouble:
@Texas-Hawk-10 excuses are like butts, everyone has one. He had at least 6 transfers of some kind every year he was here according to rivals. I respect the hell out of you but there isn’t any solid evidence of Beaty doing a lot hear, I’m sorry that just the way it is buddy.
And you're never going to convince me that Beaty was a worse hire than Charlie Weis. What the hell did Charlie Weis actually do better than Beaty at Kansas?
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
Intriguing option as a rim protector/rebound specialist https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-otchere-1.html ↗
Won AEC DPOY playing 17 MPG and played JuCo ball at Garden. Career 13% block percentage and 15% rebound percentage. For reference, last year Doke was 11 and 21 respectively.
That's a hard pass from me. He got worse in just about every category except rebounding last season and the 17% total rebounding rate he had isn't that good for a player his size in that league.
Best case scenario is he's Dave's back up, but I'd still rather have Silvio over this guy.
I would as well but I’m always intrigued by guys with an elite skill to fill out your “bullpen.” If we have a spot and need a garbage man, there’s not really a downside.
None of his skills are elite though. Silvio had a better rebounding and block rate than this kid last season. Otchere is also a big black hole on offense as his PER was 12 last year. Otchere was also a worse FT shooter than Doke. The one thing Otchere is good at, KU has two guys (Silvio and Mitch) that are just as good or better considering the level of competition involved.
A career block rate of 13 is fantastic. He and Withey had the same career high. Did you ignore the caveat that I’m intrigued as a D specialist? Not asking him to be Doke.
I also saw the significant drop off from his first to second season at Stony Brook in every relevant category except rebounding where he went from bad to average for his size. Silvio had a higher block rate than he did last season. 10% last season is still good, but it's against crap competition and that's literally the only thing he's good at and KU has two guys in Silvio and Mitch that are comparable in that category.
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2020 Transfer List:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
Intriguing option as a rim protector/rebound specialist https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-otchere-1.html ↗
Won AEC DPOY playing 17 MPG and played JuCo ball at Garden. Career 13% block percentage and 15% rebound percentage. For reference, last year Doke was 11 and 21 respectively.
That's a hard pass from me. He got worse in just about every category except rebounding last season and the 17% total rebounding rate he had isn't that good for a player his size in that league.
Best case scenario is he's Dave's back up, but I'd still rather have Silvio over this guy.
I would as well but I’m always intrigued by guys with an elite skill to fill out your “bullpen.” If we have a spot and need a garbage man, there’s not really a downside.
None of his skills are elite though. Silvio had a better rebounding and block rate than this kid last season. Otchere is also a big black hole on offense as his PER was 12 last year. Otchere was also a worse FT shooter than Doke. The one thing Otchere is good at, KU has two guys (Silvio and Mitch) that are just as good or better considering the level of competition involved.
@kjayhawks said in Trouble:
@Texas-Hawk-10 you said admirable, the definition of that word according to Webster is deserving respect and approval. He gets zero of both in my book. While yes he wasn’t the main culprit in our issues, he did very little to help. It would be the equivalent to me watching and drinking beers while my neighbors house burned down as a fireman. I didn’t start the fire but I certainly didn’t do my job to put it out even tho I was paid to. All the stupid SOB had to do was recruit HS players and the program is in way better shape regardless of wins.
He did recruit HS players his first 3 years. Year 3 was the only one where there were mass decommits due to who backed out including 2019 Biletnikoff winner JaMarr Chase. After those players decommitted, there weren't enough HS players out there for Beaty to recruit so he was pretty much forced into recruiting JuCo's in the 2018 class. Don't let a convenient excuse get in the way of the reality of why Beaty went JuCo heavy in 2018 because that wasn't original plan.
@kjayhawks said in Trouble:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m laughing so hard I’m crying admirable? If we had Miles or any coach with a brain we were bowling that year. Let’s call 2 timeouts on a 4th and 1 in plus territory, then punt. Beaty did very little to increase the program. Went from winning 3 games and down 30 scholarship players in the Weis/Bowen final year to winning 3 games and being down 30 scholarship players 4 years later. I know you got a hard on for anyone that has been in or around Texas. But Beaty sucks and I won’t be convinced other wise. Sorry dude...
Please tell me where I said Beaty was a good coach? Not winning those 3 games in 2018 are why he was fired. You're blind hatred of Beaty has made you completely blind to what an absolute shit show Charlie Weis was. David Beaty never referred to his team as a pile of crap as a recruiting pitch.
And no, KU was not 30 players in hole when Beaty left. If you want to claim those 30 players were after the 2018 seniors left and not factoring in the 2019 class, then fine. But that ignores that Beaty was 30 players in hole AFTER recruiting was done for his first season and KU had sub 60 recruited scholarship players his first season. KU was in the 70s last season for Miles first season so not even comparable there in that argument.
Keep telling yourself that Beaty is the source of KU's current issues in football when the reality doesn't match your story. Beaty's not the one who gutted the program on arrival and went JuCo every season in recruiting, unlike Beaty.
@kjayhawks Beaty wasn't even Zenger's worst football hire. Charlie Weis did far more damage to the program than Beaty ever did.
Beaty was never intended to be the guy to take KU over the top. He was hired to clean up the mess Weis left behind and did an admirable job of starting a process that was always a 2 recruiting cycles rebuild (8-10 years). Do not forget that Beaty had KU about 5 plays away from being a bowl team in 2018. Nicholls, KSU, and Texas were all winnable games for KU that season.
Beaty definitely deserved to be fired at that point, but to say he's the worst hire ever is laughable when he made KU better than when he got here unlike his predecessor who dug KU into a hole so deep in just 3 years that KU's still working on getting back to normal levels of scholarship players 6 years later.
Charlie Weis will ALWAYS be much worse hire than David Beaty ever was because Weis accomplished less and did far more long term damage to the program than Beaty did.
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Transfer List:
Intriguing option as a rim protector/rebound specialist https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-otchere-1.html ↗
Won AEC DPOY playing 17 MPG and played JuCo ball at Garden. Career 13% block percentage and 15% rebound percentage. For reference, last year Doke was 11 and 21 respectively.
That's a hard pass from me. He got worse in just about every category except rebounding last season and the 17% total rebounding rate he had isn't that good for a player his size in that league.
Best case scenario is he's Dave's back up, but I'd still rather have Silvio over this guy.
@wissox said in 2nd round of the GOAT tournament Part 2:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I know all of that. I can't wrap my mind around leaving when you have a really great chance to win a championship. Frank Kaminsky also came back for his senior year saying he was having too much fun in college to go play for half empty gyms in the NBA.
Part of a college coach's job is looking out for the best interest of his players. Listen to interviews with any coach that regular deals with players who leave early for the draft like Roy, Coach K, Calipari, Self, Sean Miller, and so on and they all would've basically told Gooden to go pro and make that money because there was no guarantee he was still going to be projected that high the following season. You use Kamisnky as an example, but he wasn't a projected lottery pick after his junior season like Gooden was.
Giving a player good advice, even if it hurts his own team is part the job. I'm sure Roy would've loved to have had Drew Gooden for the, but if a coach goes out of his way to try and talk a player into coming back that shouldn't be coming back, word spreads among recruiters and then a coach gets labeled as not having his players best interests in mind and that hurts recruiting efforts.
At the end of the day, I'm sure everyone here would've loved to have Gooden back in 2003, but Gooden made the right decision to go pro. A top 5 pick, 14 years in NBA, played with LeBron, Duncan, and Dirk at different points in his career.
What happens if Gooden came back and suffered some catastrophic injury like say tearing and ACL or rupturing an Achilles tendon? No chance he has the career he had. Even without injuries, there's little chance Drew Gooden goes top 5 in the draft since that 2003 draft was one of the most top heavy drafts ever with LeBron headlining that class. I'm sure that played a factor as well in Gooden's decision to leave early.
Two different players from the same team winning the two major DPOY awards. Doubt that's ever happened before.