Kcmatt7 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Crosstown_Shootout_brawl ↗
This is the most memorable brawl in my mind. And it was way worse than ours. So I'd imagine Silvio gets like 6 games. And then anyone else might get a game or two. I couldn't imagine more.
Imagine worse.
Kansan vs Kansan outside of the game is not healthy. It's fun to have a rivalry, but fans should remember we have to be united for bigger issues and opponents.
I'll root for KState over Alabama... or any SEC, ACC, etc opponent for that matter.
@dylans Exactly. If Love gets his hand slapped, prepare to see a new benchwarmer: The Enforcer. The designated guy who can come in with impunity and kick ass.
But to the earlier point: where is Love in the coverage of the event?
And he wasn't the instigator... he just escalated it. The instigator and the escalator are not the focus of the pundits.
Holding KU to a higher standard?
BigBad said:
@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It's all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
I think that's fine as long as they make an example out of Love as well. What Love did was every bit as inexcusable as what Silvio did.
Agree: the stool has bad optics.
However, I think what is easily overlooked -- and not evident in a still photo -- is that he de-escalated quickly.
I think it would be worthwhile to at least acknowledge that in the reporting. It's not an effort to condone his actions.. just to be a bit more fair and balanced.
Silvio is quite the lightning rod. All the talk in the press seems to be about him rather than the K-State players. This is not fair.
It is definitely his fault for taunting after the block. The technical foul was fair. But the physical altercation was instigated and escalated by K-State players-- multiple individuals.
In the video, what I see is KState players running to confront Silvio. One of them pushes him. I see Silvio brush that push away and another player pushes him and he begins to push away and back at the same time (look closely-- his hands are not clenched; they are open to deflect the aggressors.)
There are at least two pushing him, maybe three. Meanwhile, everyone around Silvio is telling him to stop because they are all KU fans. It looks to me like he's trying to not over-react for a couple of seconds while the K-State players have no one holding them back. Then the third guy lunges and pushes Silvio down and he comes up swinging.
I think it's important to look at Silvio's body language in those early moments. He is not trying to fight at first. He gets provoked and then all hell breaks loose. The stool incident I see as an instinctive act.. and one that he fortunately is able to overcome with help of those around him.
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out. The players from K-State who were responsible for the escalation and the first physical acts should be equally called out.
As is often the case when there is great disparity between two forces, the smaller power can't win with the traditional rules, so they resort to guerrilla tactics to get the bigger power to do something uncharacteristic. Silvio bit on the bait.
BigBad said:
@bskeet You missed a key element....The fact that the game was over and the benches were already standing. If this happened with 10-15 seconds left I don't think K-suck clears bench
That's a fair addition.
Also, the point @kjayhawks made about K-State's decision to press and foul hard when trailing by 25, our bench players in, and there's less than 2 min left.
None of this condones Silvio's decision to taunt. But it might help explain the powder keg.
benshawks08 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Uh, no. Block the shot, high five your teammates, all smiles, game over. Easy.
Completely agree. A controlled response that doesn’t insult the other person is always the best decision.
Reminds me of a quote from The Green Book:
“You never win with violence. You only win when you maintain your dignity.”
HighEliteMajor said:
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Uh, no. Block the shot, high five your teammates, all smiles, game over. Easy.
Indeed. That is what it should have been.
Instead it became a career-limiting moment. Possibly life altering.
And another embarrassment for a program that needed no more examples of 'lack of institutional control'.
Sigh.
jayballer73 said:
DanR said:
Different angle.
🐦 View Tweet?s=20
Actually after seeing this , it was The K-State point guard the Juco getting into it with Silvio 1st and Silvio throwing punches then Love comes in
Exactly. There were three people attacking Silvio. If it were me, thrown to the ground by three guys and finding a photographer's stool on the ground where I lay, I might grab it as well out of firm sense of self-preservation.
kjayhawks said:
It all started with KSU pressing, then fouling hard as hell in a 25 point game with 2 minutes to go and KU having walk ons in.
THIS
mayjay said:
@bskeet Big boys should be able to handle someone making a dick move. I thought Silvio did great by blocking it.
He should have gone to check if the guy was okay, smiled, and helped him up.
Angry about it after demolishing the guy with the block? That's a head case problem right there.
If you cannot successfully dribble out 3 seconds when only 2 guys are anywhere near you, ay yi yi.
I'm not justifying it. But there are circumstances that provide a bit of context:
1) BGreene dunk that left a bitter taste in purple mouths
2) Monmouth one shining moment by stealing and dunking
3) 22 point beatdown and the bench is in.
4) Silvio probably has a significant chip on his shoulder from all that he's gone through in the past 24 months.
The ingredients are there... it doesn't take much of a spark.
benshawks08 said:
🐦 View Tweet?s=21
Of course Nick Krug got THE pic.
The most amazing photo I saw was posted on this site..
Texas Hawk 10 said:
rockchalkwyo said:
I’m glad Silvio stared him down. They stole the ball while we’re having the clock run out and Silvio had a bad a$$ block. KSU started it by rushing SDS. What I do not like, and I mean DO NOT LIKE is the chair The rest is a blur for me. It seems like David and Garrett tried to separate players.
Silvio needed to walk away after the block, that's ultimately what started everything was Silvio not walking away after the block.
True.. although, it could also be argued that the start was the meaningless steal and attempt to score when down by 22 with 2 seconds left..
@BShark That's a pretty incredible shot. Wow. That guy should be disqualified for the year.
Hawk8086 said:
@tundrahok I guess what bothers me is that if you are dribbling out the clock casually with a few seconds left..why try to steal it? It happens all the time. Let's agree to either play the game to the end or let the last few seconds tick off.
Well, if you play to the end when you have the lead then the opponent gets all indignant like Iowa State..
so this is how we go to 4 guards.
in slow motion, it's clearer that three K-State guys (#4, and off the bench: #11 and the guy in the white pants) push Silvio repeatedly and he tried to defend himself but eventually they pushed him down, probably said something and he sprung up with fists flying.
Garrett is in trouble because he came in hot.
DanR said:
I watched it several times on replay. Silvio was a stupid for staring down the dude after the block, but he didn't start the fight.
Agree. I think #4 on K-State made the push.. either him or #11.. Those appear to be the two who rush in and confront Silvio.
@DanR I think there was a K-State player who shoved Silvio first and then he retaliated and then others around him erupted.
was about to turn it off and then all hell broke loose. Silvio is in trouble.
Last 2 minutes may take 12
Hilarious! even he laughed
Probably waiting until 2:30
Is it possible Braun is a better 3pt shooter than Frankamp?
How was that not a foul? Oh it was Duke.
Of course it was really throwing shade at Doke and praising Doolittle..
I heard that! I was like WHAT????
We are kind of saying the same thing. There's a larger margin of error this year for teams like Dayton, SDSU, Gonzaga, and others.
For that reason I think there's a better chance a FF team is one or more of those "power" teams from non-power 5 conferences. But, you're right, it might come from the power 5 but be a "surprise" team like Ohio State or Baylor.
I think that also suggests that there is more parity both within and across conferences. I don't have stats to back this up.. just anecdotally seems like the top 25 teams constantly getting beat.
(PS: you may want to update your sig... Not sure the Astros earned it.)
@DanR When you lay it out like that, it looks like we must be the underachievers of the decade.. Our performance is as much a negative statistical anomaly as UCONN is a positive anomaly.
Mitch would have added a dash of spice to the mix.
This is a crazy year. The goal should be simply to get a little better every week. No dominant team.
The tournament is less likely to be driven by major conferences than ever.
This win keeps us in the race. Great to see... hoping we can get back to the vintage foot-on-the-throat-of-the-conference mode.
@Crimsonorblue22 are we sure this wasn't authored by Jaybate?
VanVleet II?
I'm irritated because I pay a boatload for cable so I can watch the vast majority of games, and this year I've seen maybe 3 games on TV. I'm not paying for another streaming service. I already have Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ and Apple TV.
ESPN: Please help me understand how it's a compliment to not put KU on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPNews. etc etc.. there are like 5 ESPN channels. Not to mention the WatchESPN app that used to be included in my Comcast subscription. SMH.
So I'm not able to speak with much authority so far this year about Dotson vs Garrett.. or all of the other interesting threads.. Because I CAN'T FRICKIN' VIEW the games despite paying more than I want / more than I ought to every month.
Totally agree.. some competitive basketball games tonight... and a couple surprising blowouts.
CU pulling away now
Probably Google. Good to have you join KUBuckets. Happy Veterans Day to all those who have served.
@wissox thank you! Great news! Rooting for them!
Men’s or women’s?
This team is athletic and has a high ceiling. If they just keep improving throughout the season, I think we'll have a shot to beat anyone on most days.
Assuming the young guys improve and Dotson and Garrett gel, the big wild card is the front court players: will Azibuke and DeSousa improve to their previous level and at least become consistent there? Will McCormick improve? I feel like that's the key to the season.
When you see scores like that, it reminds me of Ben Howland teams. He was also a coveted coach... until he wasn't. That style got tiresome... it wins games for a while, but I don't think you can hang your hat on it if you want to be a hall of famer.
How I miss the clutch guys... Devonte Graham, Frank Mason III, Cole Aldrich, Jeff Withey and Thomas Robinson.
I don't know whether to view tonight's game as glass half full (27 turnovers and only lost by 2) or glass half empty (27 turnovers represents our skill level)
Free throws matter. Let's hope we have a cushion at the end of the game. I shiver when I think about a 2 point lead in the final 30 seconds.
Anyway, the NCAA changed the rule, so there's that.
Also, I don't despise the NCAA. I just think they should be held accountable for their feckless leadership.
Unfortunately, it appears the only "market force" that has proven effective has come from the government... Which is another indicator that the operation is monopolistic.
I hear your concern that some fans view Bill Self as above reproach. FWIW, I do not. If he has broken rules that are generally upheld by others in the community, then that is worthy of reprimand and consequence. However, if he is essentially driving 65 in a 55 zone like everyone else around him, then I don't think it is "horrible conduct" and I don't think it is fair for him to be singled out of the stream of traffic and punished.
The NCAA struggles with this. Instead, they seem to take an arbitrary approach to enforcement and consequences.
I'm a big fan of NCAA athletics. At the same time, I think they need to improve and do a much better job. I don't think that's contradictory.
Finally, I'm not ignoring the arguments in support of the NCAA. But, while arguments may provide explanation for actions, they are not justification for actions. They can be more equitable. This rule change is evidence of that.
We all can see that an article filled with "blah blah blah" is bogus. The problem is the abundance of specious content on the internet, and the fact that it's rewarding to create such content. In fact, the more deceiving the content, the more likely it is profitable.
Trump is, indeed, exploiting the fact that the information ecosystem is polluted.
And while that is true, is it ethical or in the best interest of the citizens for a leader to exacerbate the problem?
I guess if we could ever see his tax returns, we would likely see a guy who has exploited tax codes and financial loopholes with reckless abandon, so why would this be any different.
My point wasn't political, because the damage from misinformation is indiscriminate and non-partisan... but yes, misinformation is often embedded in such partisan content because that stirs emotions and stokes controversy.
Back on the soapbox for a moment: If this had happened 25 years ago in a print publication, there would be the risk of a lawsuit for libel or slander.
There is no libel or slander on the internet. With the occasional exception of threats of explicit violence, anyone can say anything with impunity. And messages on the internet reach a global audience.
Paradoxically, protections against damaging content from irresponsible publishers was far greater when the audience was limited by how far the circulation trucks could travel to deliver the publication.
Who knows how many people end up seeing this gaff by Apple news or NBC Sports or whoever? And who knows how this influences their perception of Self, of Kansas Basketball, or of Kansas University.
But there is no consequence for the publisher, no matter what the harm is to the victim.
Oh, and be careful out there.