You all know me.... and some of you know where I'm going now...
What will this do for our chip? Is it back?
drgnslayr
11251 posts
I thought Silvio's taunt was extreme because he just continued to stand there. Because of that, it was already running through my head that he had bad intent that could become violent. It is one thing to stand there for a second and make your point... it is another thing to just stay standing there. It was very "thuggish."
I think it is our current culture... this desire to be a thug.
I probably shouldn't have... but I chuckled on your image. It might as well be us exploiting the use of the chair though I know we will be seeing it all over Kittyland when we face them in Manhattan.
I've already heard some things about that....
Fans have been planning how to show the chair and they can't bring in chairs. So they want to do big posters of chairs. From what I gather, KSU administration isn't too hip on any additional buildup of the brawl so they will ban free speech involving chairs for the game.
Anyone else have inside info from Kittyland?
And then there is Big Dave.
I feel like his saving grace was the lack of video footage on his feet during the fight. It sure looked like he may have got in some kicks, though it is also possible he was shuffling because there was a Wildcat at his feet. Who knows...
I do know that if a camera was down low and showed Big Dave kicking, his suspension would have been much higher, as well it should.
Self is already hearing a loud message from the student body and administration: CLEAN UP BASKETBALL!
But I will hand it to Self and he has always been a players' coach and he will stand up for Silvio if he believes Silvio will reform. JMO
I pretty much agree with the Jay Bilas response. My exception is that the refs should step in and stop a last second steal. Yes, that would have stopped this event but it is an overreach for several reasons. First... it is a slippery slope and before you know it, refs may be getting involved in outcomes that are still marginally known outcomes. Second... we have the gambling lines and I know gamblers don't want refs to be anywhere involved in what the final score will be.
Thinking back to the brawl... there was no bad blood all through the game. Nothing. You couldn't even tell this was a rival game. So it is clear that the players weren't really holding much hatred/anger inside before the event took place. Knowing that... the brawl was really a "perfect storm" in how it escalated to such a crazy level so quickly. The steal was the first taunt. The Silvio stand over was the second taunt. And then it went straight downhill. I'm thinking the real gas on this fire came from players on both sides who were holding built up anxiety completely unrelated to players on the other team. With Silvio, it is clear he hasn't had the year anyone expected, including him, and he has received plenty of criticism based on crushed expectations. Love seems to have frustration about his situation and injury. Gordon... ? And Big Mac might have some frustration, too. He must feel like he has added pressure to his game or he will get pulled for a 4-guard lineup.
All these factors seemed to fuel the "perfect storm."
If Silvio's suspension was shorter, Self still wouldn't take him to Manhattan. And, by chance, if Silvio is still here beyond this year, I seriously doubt he will ever see Manhattan again.
Just my opinion.
Back to REAL LIFE. Today I will have a business meeting with a friend who eats and sleeps Wildcats. I'm certain things will go well though I'm not sure if we reach this topic. Most likely, yes. If it does my comments will be critical of Silvio for his part in this.
We live in a big state but it really is small because you can't escape Wildcats, Shockers and Jayhawks. In my world I guess I am outnumbered as a Jayhawk.
It is very helpful for me to be outnumbered. I'm forced to deal with things rationally and also forced to see the truth that Wildcats and Shockers are good people, too.
I'm not Mr. Perfect over here. Example.... Missouri. I'm not quite as positive about the Mizzou culture. I don't know if that is because I have less exposure with Tigs so I haven't had to face that they put their pants on the same as we do. Then there is the history of our two states. And the cultures seem different while the Kansas teams all mix together.
There is a lesson in prejudice here. I am of high education yet I continue to joke about Tigs not having teeth. That must say something...
Kcmatt7 said:
bskeet said:
Kansan vs Kansan outside of the game is not healthy. It's fun to have a rivalry, but fans should remember we have to be united for bigger issues and opponents.
I'll root for KState over Alabama... or any SEC, ACC, etc opponent for that matter.
After the band fellatio, I quit rooting for KSU for anything. How their fans reacted to that is pitiful.
Same with this stupid fight. "He wAs JuSt PlAyInG tO tHe wHistLe."
They can't even accept that a single one of their players had anything to do with the situation. That maybe their bench shouldn't have reacted that way. I'm not trying to say Silvio was innocent. He was absolutely the main reason the scuffle started. But they literally can't own up to the smallest of things.
It's a repeat of the way they acted with the band thing.
"iT wAs StAr WaRs dAy."
No it was clearly a penis and if you'd at least own up to that I'd respect you.
So KSU can burn to the ground and I wouldn't care one single bit. I hate their fans. I hate where their school is located. I think their campus is ugly. I hate the way it smells there. I hate how fake "country" it is. I hate their colors. I hate EMAW because it sounds like a donkey noise. I hate the stupid thing they do at games where it looks like everyone is practicing giving a BJ.
Frankly, I hate everything about KSU. And I hope that during the next conference realignment they get relegated to the Mountain West where they belong.
But how do you really feel? ha
Back in my KU days a group of us would go over there sometimes. Usually hellraising. Someone over there raised pigs because my memories are tied to smelling pig poo.
I love the rivalry and hope we build it back more. I just don't accept violence in any form.
I am often around Wildcats and they are good people. Glad I don't carry a torch of hatred. Not good for anything including your health!
Peace, my friend!
I will say one positive about Silvio... wish he had shown that hustle on the block the rest of his PT!
Maybe this wakes him up. He's been asleep for a couple of years.
Okay.... I had my plea for kindness and that didn't seem to fly.
Just curious... is this better? Cast your vote either above or below.
We could bring them a couple dozen purple roses! ha
I wish we could do more than like a post. We need the hilarious emojis!
Moral fortitude = Real Toughness
My first lesson in sports came when I was 5.
A kid bigger than me drove the lane and ran over me like a mac truck.
Lesson #1: Humility
This is where it should start for everyone. I thank God for that bloody nose!
The "Brawl in the Naismith Mall" was simply not acceptable.
Read your history on "Jayhawks" and there were battles, but the spirit was about ending violence and repression.
Our world is becoming one huge brawl. Brawls end in war. The very basis of war is complete stupidity because there will never be a winner in war.
Look within our own nation's border. Politically, we can't maintain the simplest discourse to accomplish anything... even when lives are at stake.
I am proud to be a Jayhawk! I'm proud of our heritage in Kansas and I'm proud of the University and I'm proud of our identity as Jayhawks!
It's up to us to say "enough!" We stand for peace!
I suggest we make a statement. We wear a symbolic band on our arms when we go to Manhattan this year. We let the Wildcats and the nation know what we stand for.
Then we fight our guts out on the court, where the competition should remain. And when it is all over, and the teams go for handshakes each of our players reaches out and embraces our brothers in basketball because they are human, too, and we are all members of the human race.
Let's take this struggle and turn it into an opportunity to be Jayhawks and fly above the fray, soaring into the clouds!
Rock Chalk!
Silvio made several mistakes. Not just one. It's a list.
Maybe his actions exposed his lack of connecting with his team and the knowledge of what it is to be a Jayhawk. Does anyone recognize his actions as a Jayhawk? I think not. Silvio's background culture probably plays a huge role in this.
The KSU guy who stole the ball... that was silly and below us to respond. We have no control over what happens to that guy or the guy off the bench who thought he was Mike Tyson. Those guys are K-State's problem. We care about Kansas and the real question coming is if Silvio should remain a Jayhawk, period.
The chair graphic will stick with Kansas forever. Think about that. It is a sad day for us and it will be something we will always be challenged with.
I suggest the authorities at Kansas step up and go on the positive addressing everything relating to game security. Get out and lead the country on this topic because we wear the black armband forever with that graphic.
I don't know what I'm saying. This team has me confused. Look at my constant contradiction. Guys need to show more emotion while Doke needs to control his emotions. Devon may be the best PG in KU history while he can't lead a team. This team has a huge chip while not seeming to have one at all. This team needs to be hugely focused but need to just go have fun.
I give up.
What's next? A stupid fight with 2 ticks left on the clock?
I wonder if Self is as confused as many of us?
Keys for a victory tonight:
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Hustle and stay hustling the entire game
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Listen to the instructions of Self and execute his plan
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Show some team spirit. Clap your hands. Smile. Cheer each other on!
It really is that simple. We need nothing else.
kjayhawks said:
@drgnslayr in their defense, the NBA is about shooting not defense lol.
There is a lot to agree with you on that one. However the league isn't completely stripped of defense.
I blame a lot of the soft defense on the long schedules. These guys play 100+ games a year if they make the playoffs. It's too much ball.
If you watch the playoffs... they step up on defense because it takes defense to win titles.
I think the long seasons creates periods of soft play. Often the defense falls somewhere between an all-star game (no defense) and a playoff game (defense). These guys don't want to bang for 100+ games. Too risky on the season and too risky on careers. Players take plays off and players take games off. Sometimes players take extended periods off. Some games are important, other games not so important.
Spring comes around and fans can expect to start seeing some big games. Conference battles tighten up and teams consider some games more as prep games for the playoffs. Sometimes they want to make a statement.
By the time June comes around, the play toughens up considerably and the game becomes more physical.
I think there are a lot of great points made in here by many. Shows how complex an issue emotions can be.
So many of the team spirit habits that exist in high school ball are gone from college basketball. That's a big mistake. I guess players and coaches feel like the players are all grown up now and don't need some of these things. Players should all come together on a timeout right before starting play and bring their hands together and chant something. Players should show enthusiasm to players at the FT line after a shot, either way on a make or a miss. Players should cheer players who make good plays. Players should cheer players when they need things turned up. Players should cheer players non-stop. Bench players need to be totally involved and cheering hugely. Set up these habits and it should make a difference. Coaches should cheer their players constantly and uplift them when they struggle.
Are we doing that?
We talk about having a team leader. Devon is it. It should be his team. And as team leader, he should be animated about it all the time. And he should be out there cheerleading and also orchestrating. We need more leadership out of Devon. Who thinks he is ready for the NBA?
I don't want to come down too hard on Devon because he's only a sophomore and he has been a great PG for us, but he isn't ready for the pros and he should be sticking it out here for all 4 years because he will need all 4 years to learn how to lead a team at a high enough level to bring it to the pros.
I agree with Self on this one.
Part of coaching is helping players leave their best game on the court. Showing some emotion is part of the game. I've felt Doke's biggest problem this year is his inability to play with controlled emotion and needing to show more self-confidence. But I look at Devon and Ochai and they need to show a little life out there. We need a team synergy here and that comes through showing some emotions.
There is a balance out there and I like how Self is addressing the need for balance.
This is a game we definitely need to win with defense. Our ability to produce offense is sketchy but playing good defense is merely an attitude and plan going in.
Speaking of offense... how about we have our defense make offense? It seems like ages ago when we had a break away score off a turnover.
Speaking of stats...
Does anyone know: During a game, do we have a real-time statistician giving Self real-time numbers? Seems like a valuable asset to know which lineups produce the best results during the game so we can make our best run at the end.
I know all teams have "sports information" and are given things like halftime stat lines. This is different.
I think it is a positive to rest Devon right now and make the team go it alone.
These guys need pressure to step up. Who will it be?
This change forces everyone out of their comfort zones and we should become a tougher team because of it.
Devon should become better by sitting on the bench and watching a few games, taking mental notes on how he must adapt to make us a better team.
Our coaches need to be pushed to discover new sets, plays and how to score the ball and put more points on the board.
And I was getting worried everyone was starting to believe we are such a monster defensive team! We are not! I think we all get excited to finally see any of our guys play a little defense for a change!
Give us a game where our defense hustles as much as Nova or Baylor and we will flat out "pancake" our opponent! Note: "defense" also means sealing boards and diving for 50/50 balls.
I will constantly discount the super stat forecasts just like I discount the so-called "basketball experts" and/or media pollsters.
Maybe I'm just narcissistic enough to think my eyes see better than everyone else and my brain calculates so much better than computers and programs.
I'm pretty certain many of us feel this way about ourselves when being exposed to outside opinions.
And then there is the crimson/blue sunglasses we all wear.
Complain, complain, complain. Then what? If we aren't complaining about some stat machine or poll we would be complaining because they didn't exist! Do you see where I'm going with this?
Peace!
I know my reply is stupid... but....
If winners were picked on stats alone, the games would be played on laptops.
I'm thinking outside the box here....
Is it possible Self thinks it is easier to teach a defender how to shoot than teach a shooter how to defend?
Anytime I think about shooters and defense I think about BGreene. Svi started off bad at defense, too, but showed definite improvements, somewhat.
I know many shooters put no emphasis on defense... which is just plain shortsighted, especially if they think they can some day make a living playing ball.
That speaks volumes.
It is helpful to see statistics support what we are seeing with our eyes. I know I didn't realize it was so stark!
Is that food at the bottom of the tank, or fish poo?
I wonder what the mindset is like in Manhattan now. Shooting to the top and then to the bottom. Must be devastating.
Purple Power! Wow!
0 - 4 to mark the start of the conference season!
Guesses on their final conference record this year?
Will Bruce remain at the Purple Powerhouse?
Are they back to just thinking they are a football school?
Will they finish at the bottom of the Big 12?
Is there any future hope in sight?
Poor Bruce!
https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article239067993.html ↗
Players overseas make money beyond salaries, in other forms. The salaries have to stay low because of taxation, often double taxation.
Devon has more issues than shooting, but you are right, his shooting has to come along.
Devon needs to shine at leading a team. He needs to be a better passer and he needs to make his teammates look a lot better by helping set them up. Basketball IQ is a must, and Devon is way too inexperienced right now to get out there and lead any NBA team.
Concerning running the two bigs... a part of me says "trust Self." He's proved me wrong before.
I see the concept that if those two were really plugging away there isn't a team in D1 that could stop our post. I see that. But is it realistic to happen? So far, our bigs have shown us they can't pass well. And our perimeter players feeding the post have also proven to us they can't feed the post well.
Is this a passing problem? Or is it a set problem? Might we run different spacing and largely end the interior passing problems? Answer: yes
On defense, both our bigs have improved quite a bit on defense. And they know it is their weak spot and answer to getting more minutes and a better look from NBA scouts. Might it be best to just let this play out? Might they become pretty good perimeter defenders by March?
I like the 4-guard offense but I have been a proponent of x-axis ball for years. I also think Self is trying to reach a certain level of play with both lineups so we can throw both lineups at teams. It creates quite an adjustment for teams to make. It also means they have to scout and prep for us both ways. Did anyone in here think of that? So let's say we sacrifice the first 4 minutes of every game. Might it be worth it to see if we can go big well and then flip after a few minutes? Our opponents will have to prep for both lineups and we might get benefits all the way around.
A little bit BG. A little bit "I don't want to get my hands dirty because I am the trey specialist."
I could be wrong. It could be other things. And I have seen Moss go after some balls, just not consistently "down in the trenches."
Moss kind of reminds me of BGreene, except without the funky attitude.
But he is making some gains on defense. And maybe he just needed to start. You have to admit it is weird for him to come to Kansas and not start.
Some of his defensive weak areas can be masked if we have 4 other guys hustling. The real problem is getting our guys to stay enthused. And an enthused Moss also makes a big difference on his defense.
Replay the Baylor game. Most or all of our team took that game off.
Maybe Moss needs to start for his confidence. To me, it seemed odd that he came to KU to start games on the bench.
It's hard not to think Marcus will be our PG next year unless Self recruits a 5-star PG who is ready to step in. Even then... PG just isn't an easy job to master over one season.
I'm not convinced Devon is gone. From what I'm seeing so far, he isn't ready for the NBA. But he could for sure go play abroad and become a millionaire on signing day.
I think the smart reason for him to go after this year is that there isn't enough upside for him to stay. Meaning... he won't improve enough to stay another year. He also risks injury.
If he doesn't mind playing abroad, I think he should for sure leave after this season. Make money while he is healthy!
Things have to go just right for Devon to make it in the NBA.
No doubt that happens... but it didn't happen on the bench when he went down. He played the entire 4th quarter with his ankle the size of a grapefruit.
Pain medicine administered to athletes is a topic on it's own and when it comes up it is amazing how it gets skirted off to the side.
You may be right, but it doesn't make it right. There are still guys who will bring it with pain.
Right off the top of my head I'm thinking about that Clemson quarterback who got clocked in the OSU game but still stayed out there and lead them to victory.
But yeah... this shouldn't be the exception, it should be the standard!
Man.... you are so right on!
Wright doesn't sell guys coming prepared for a game. That is a gimme with Nova.
Wright sells guys on "Wright ball" as a whole and they have to come to practice with the same commitment as they do a game. That is how Nova develops well and comes to games and executes a plan; because they didn't lollygag in practice anymore than they do a game.
When a team can't even come into a game with enthusiasm, imagine what their practices are like!
This all relates to Self's strategy after we got smoked in some early round NCAA games. He felt like the guys were tight and need to play loose. But just how loose?
I go the other way. I think guys need to come in and have pressure on them. But they need to bring in so much positive energy, actually synergy as a group, that they execute because they are overflowing with self confidence!
"Go out and have fun!" How the heck does that inspire players? It doesn't. Actually invites them to slack off. It's a cop out because we don't know how to build enthusiasm with our guys. Self is just way too mellow! But still a remarkable coach!
Yep. I'm not sure what to expect from Devon. He may have picked the wrong career if he can't play hard tonight with pain and being effective.
People bark about what pro athletes make. After all, they are just playing a game, right? In reality, they are not only masters of their game they have to learn how to play with pain while still being effective and still being aggressive.
Here it is... this says it all:
Excellent post!
Yeah... I don't agree with the idea "just go out there and have fun." Imagine Marshall doing that. Watch him during a game and it is painful watching all his contortions in his face and body... and his ticks. How many times a game does that guy shake his watch wrist? My guess... 300 times a game.
I gave the old football story. Lead Bottom would have never told us to go have fun. He was more likely to lead with a threat on us running perpetual laps the following week if we lollygagged in a game. He kept a list during games and I have to confess to running a bunch of extra laps on following Mondays after Saturday games.
BTW.... I would never trade Self for Marshall. I'm just making the point about who can motivate. I have been watching some WSU games this year and they have changed completely since early November. He is able to take a bunch of 2-star guys and make them competitive. He is able to play the "underdog card" and I can never see him coaching elite players with his style. Nothing in the future will change his past of being a cabana boy.
Marshall is an extreme. The guy who fascinates me is Wright at Nova.
Jaybate has been immortalized in here for his commentary on "Shoecos."
I want my tombstone to read "Chip."
I built this team up and I built Self up this year based on the premise that they all carried a monster chip.
I did not see any of that chip in the Baylor game.
They punched us and we folded. They came out and took control. We came out soft. We played soft the entire game.
We can all argue until we are blue in the face about what offense to run, what players deserve most of the PT, etc etc etc... but until these guys commit to leaving their blood on the court, it's a moot matter.
We got ZILCH 50/50 balls in this game. On close rebounds, we lost almost every single one of them. We got punched and we didn't punch back. Period. End of story.
This all weighs down on Devon. He has to step up and take ownership of this team and he has to decide how to run it. His hip pointer took him out for some of this game, but he should be screaming from the bench. And when he went on he should have smacked all his troops' backsides, smacked his hands and DEMAND they step up! Did anyone see that happen? No.
This team should learn something from the Chiefs and Mahomes. That guy stepped up being down 24-0. It could have been 40-0. He wasn't going to lose. That's leadership. That's bringing fight when knocked down. That's CHIP!
X's and O's don't win games. PLAYERS win games. Players who fight their guts out win games.
I've always said Self can't motivate his teams well enough. I'll give you an example of a coach that can motivate his team. Nobody in here will like to read it, but reality is reality. Marshall and WSU knows how to motivate players. It's a DNA thing and it's related to upbringing. Marshall was once a cabana boy. A friggin' cabana boy. And I hear he can be a real bunghole most of the time. His home life is one big competition... even folding laundry has been turned into a game. The guy has a chip on his basic existence. He is a guy who isn't liked in many circles.
Self is a guy who is extremely well-liked. From his players, to other coaches, and yadda yadda yadda. I've met him many times and I prefer him be my next door neighbor than Marshall.
But none of that matters in coaching except what you can get out of your players. It's a personality thing.
I had a real dick coach in 8th grade football. Everyone on the team hated him. But we went undefeated. We ran over everyone. He had us so jacked up every game there was no way we were going to lose and no one came close to beating us that season. 9th grade came along and we basically pulled over all the best talent from the second best team in our league and we were a shoe in for another undefeated season. We ended up second and lost two games that year. We weren't pushed by "lead bottom" this year.
Self has done so much for our program and I have total respect for him and I hope he stays at KU. But I will never consider him a motivator... at all! It's the price we pay, and it will always take the perfect storm for us to bag another NC.
It is what it is. We could do a lot worse.
It's too bad the Big 12 doesn't have the power to fire some coaches based on hurting our conference.
Meanwhile:
I wish Fred would come back. I think he even helped Self develop some offense... we could use his influence now.
We were exposed.
I have to hand it to Drew. He has upped his coaching over the past 5 years and he came ready today. Never winning in AFH didn't hold him or his players down. They were confident and they never lost their cool. They came in an executed a game plan and it was their game plan that won it today. I wouldn't trade our personnel for theirs.
We played soft. How many 50/50 balls did we get? Any? Did we have a single break away basket? No! It was the old phrase "deer in the headlights" look for us today. Did anyone see any optimism expressed in our game? Any players smacking their hands together and chatting up the fellas?
We clearly lost confidence and went soft. Even our defense slacked off. We couldn't mount an offensive attack and we felt inferior. Meanwhile, Baylor continually built confidence the entire game.
There is something glaring and I've been mentioning this for years. Baylor came in and played great defense. I put them near a Nova team. We never respond well to aggressive defense. Why? Because we don't practice specifically to attack an aggressive defense. How many backdoor alleyoops did we run today? Zero! In fact, we ran very few set plays. I've said all along this year that this team will need to be running plenty of set plays. When we did run set plays (after timeouts) we were successful. We have to learn to ATTACK aggressive offense instead of fold them up! Today we folded. Players must learn how to attack aggressive defense and draw fouls. The way to end aggressive defense is to get them in foul trouble and we should have had Baylor in foul trouble today, but we weren't attacking.
Tough loss, and I hope we learn from it, but I'm not counting on seeing our coaching coming around to attacking aggressive defense. It is something we have to practice regularly in practice, just like end game practicing.
Pork tenderloin, Italian sausage, chicken broth, onions, garlic, carrots, chipotle pepper, black pepper, salt.
It's what I had handy.
Yes.... his FT shooting is coming along.
I've finally heard Self and others mention Doke's #1 challenge is his own mind. Learning to settle down and control his emotions is the biggest help he could have at this point.
He is already a 70%+ FT shooter in practice and shooting with better form. Now it is about translating that to games.
Doke is improving his emotional control. If you have any old game footage from his past you will see just how worked up he gets during a game. You can compare that to him now and he isn't without emotion, but he is more calm.
I'm extremely impressed with how much energy and focus he has put into becoming a better player. The obvious thing to notice is his physical improvements. But it's a lot more than that and he knows what he needs to do. So few players actually make the changes Doke is making. Not many guys around who step up and go after it!
Instapot already programmed for my pork tenderloin stew. Bring on the ice and snow!
Concerning Doke and the league....
His selling points will have to be:
- He can run up and down and not die of exhaustion
- He can score at the rim at a 80%+ clip and attempts to score when isolated
- He can hit 70% FTs
- He can adequately guard the perimeter and the rim
- He is an above average rebounder
If he checks these boxes he will find several NBA teams interested.
We have seen the league change and everyone is shooting the trey, including the super bigs.
Doke can change that perspective if he can be unstoppable at the rim because what many teams are realizing is having a big who can shoot the trey but is not competitive %-wise with the guards actually creates a liability.
Having a center who is unstoppable in the post while isolated can force teams to try to help the post defender, hence is helping "spread the floor" by forcing defenses to mush in.
If Doke can also learn to be a better all around defender, the league always needs guys who can defend. Not every shot is a trey.