Think it could have a metal plate underneath the padding? This isn't boxing where their gloves are checked...
drgnslayr
11251 posts
I'm still hoping we book Perchtop University from the Canary League off the NW coast of Africa. They've got a 7'9" center who likes to grip the rim with his teeth.
The WSU/KU debate won't heat up again until WSU has a contending team again. It might kick up again this year if Doke whacks his wrist again...
This is my day to say "again"... meaning... we haven't heard the last of the debate.
What are the rules concerning a player wearing wrist guards all year?
It might help his FT%s, too, forcing him to straighten out his shot.
Inquiring minds want to know...
MESSAGE TO BIG MAC:
You've got the hustle. You've got the desire. You know you have to learn how to seal off the boards. Get to know your butt. Bend your knees, lower your center of gravity, and learn how to stick your butt onto other people. Heck... why wait until practice? Get your butt lowered and stick it on your friends and start backing up. Push them away from the vanilla pudding in the cafeteria. Get those arms dangling sideways like a fence. Once you learn how to use your butt right, you usually don't even need your fence because you keep your opponents off balance by pushing them out with your butt.
Go get your hands on as much Charles Barkley footage as you can. Learn from the master. Learn where most of the rebounds go. And learn to spot the shot and have a feel for where it will hit the rim.
Do this and let's see how many minutes you earn this year when you are averaging a rebound per minute. It can be done. You've got the size and no one in D1 even knows how to rebound, including your teammates.
I'm playing devil's advocate against myself.
One big problem with those mid-tier players.... they want to play, too, and they expect to play wherever they commit, even if it's a blue blood school. We are seeing so many of these players transfer now. Consider them OAD without even the chance of bringing much in that one year.
Q fit that bill. I like the young man but I can't see how anyone saw him as a 5-star recruit, or even close. The one big compliment I always heard about him was about his size. But when did he ever use that size to make a play? What I saw was a mid-tier player that was fortunate to get over-hyped. He now leaves a HOF'r coach, blue blood program... and he was probably guaranteed PT!
I often wonder how our recruiters actually judge talent. How much of it is just recruiting on the rankings? I think if I was a recruiter I'd want to interview recruits' friends as well as their parents. Most of the time their coaches are responsible for the over-hype. How about interviewing some of the players they played against? Opposing coaches? How about looking over footage very carefully? Is it impressive when they dunk over a 5'8" guy with no hops?
And can our coaches even spot when a recruit has been coached up well? I know this sounds like I'm blowing my own horn, but I dominated the boards from the 7th grade on because I sealed off the boards. It's not friggin' rocket science. And it doesn't take too much talent to get a feel for where the rebounds are going to go. How hard is it to hedge the ball handler on their right side when you know that's his only move?
I love D1 ball but I'm sick and tired of all the excuses for these guys not playing very elementary play. I know I seem to pick on Q... but that guy just seemed lost out there and often was more a spectator than a player. I'm sick of watching that kind of basketball.
I'm yawning until Charles Barkley has a son who his dad coaches up and he signs with us. Wake me up for that! Ha...
Or get me the recruit that has some size and athleticism who knows he is a long shot to make it in the NBA... so he wants to pour every inch of himself into his basketball career, which will last 4-years at Kansas. He'll leave his guts on the court every night, diving for balls, because he isn't worried about saving his valuable body parts for the league in the immediate future. Give me the guy who is playing for bragging rights, so he can tell his kids someday how he crushed 5-star players in his junior and senior year.
I don't see another National Championship on the horizon for us... not until we get a team of guys who truly "buy-in" to Self. It only takes one or two guys to not "get it" and we go home early again.
We should start a new thread... "Which players bought-in to Self ball?" I think that will tell us everything we need to know. Before long... I'm pretty sure we see how many of the OADs never bought in. They just played at a certain level, then moved on 8 months later, or whatever.
Sherron Collins is on my all-time greats list because his guts were always hanging out there. Forget the 2008 NC without him. Where do we find more of him?
Did we ever heal after the 2012 NC game? Wasn't that the year Cal won the trophy with his OADs? We would have won that game without a single McDs AA had it not been for the dominance of the unibrow, who was truly a freak talent, off the charts. I don't know that Self ever recovered from that. It seems like that was when he really stepped it up a notch to go after OADs. He was convinced the game would be controlled by OADs after that. It really hasn't worked out that way.
I have time to think now, between the rain drops, watching my tomato plants grow! hahaha
I'm guessing for every OAD target we go after we are losing out on 10 players from 20-100.
I've heard the argument before that if we don't go after and get some Top-10 guys then the group right below that won't be interested either because they see themselves as Top-10. I can see a problem here if we don't structure it right. The right structure is to lead the country in development. End of story. The players that want to work their rears off and get a lot better will be attracted to our program. The players that are "sniffing their own glue" won't be attracted and that is a great thing! No more prima donnas in our program!
Our program isn't really quite at a level where we can go out and "truckload" in Top 10 recruits at every position anyways. We are committed to a direction where we don't quite have what it takes, like East Coast exposure and a bigger media market. The tradition of KU basketball, and the quality of Self, can only make up so much ground.
How do we make up the difference? Illegal booster payments?
We are swimming in waters full of sharks when we could leave the ocean for our own private exclusive pool... the very best development D1 program in America! We could do it! It will require some staff changes and a restructuring in some areas... but we could do it and we could quickly gain the right reputation.
You can bet Frank will offer up some serious help to the right team, if given the chance.
I've come to appreciate "team ball" and fundamentals as being superior to elite OADs. I look at players like Fred VanVleet and Frank Mason... and I want more of those guys.
I've never been for having a revolving door team but I always thought (like many other's think) and having one or maybe two OADs sprinkled into a seasoned bunch made sense. I'm starting to question that idea. I'm still not against it, but sort of playing "devil's advocate."
I'm thinking more about what we give up by going after the fool's gold.
Marco said:
but don't go all in on six or seven guys who want to bolt as soon as possible.
Problems exist by chasing the top tier. These problems are far more than just the year we have them (starting guys with zero experience).
The problems start BEFORE we sign them, even if we don't sign one of them! Think about how many really quality players pass on Kansas because they don't want to sit on the bench behind an OAD? (only to be passed on again after the OAD leaves by bringing in another OAD!)
And then we have the problem of having all these players leave after only one year. Constant holes to fill, and we usually don't have quality depth built in that position because the OAD hogged the PT!
I really enjoy the eye candy of watching those guys stuff the ball. But I've come to think they are all "fool's gold."
I'm always okay with the guys who "talk the talk" if they can back it up by "walking the walk." That doesn't mean he has to come here and be a superstar in year one. It just means he has to come here and give his all. That is the most we can expect from any player. These players can chatter plenty and I'm fine with that. It merely puts more pressure on themselves to go prove it. Ambition is a good thing!
These recruits are poked and prodded to say about anything... Here's what I mean...
I'm hoping this team will be drama-free. I'd rather see that then us sign a 5-star drama dude. This team has plenty of good chemistry and the right tone... starting right out in front with Devon.
In fact... at this point.. I feel like adding an elite would likely crush our chances next year. It seems they all carry drama with them, if for no other reason then the herd of media following their every move. That is all a huge distraction to the team.
From the way I see it.. it's best to go undrafted than to be at the bottom of the draft. You are free to go anywhere and sometimes undrafted guys make it on teams.
It seems Q just didn't want to spend another year in Lawrence. Or... could it be that Bill, behind closed doors, didn't offer to renew his scholarship? In all seriousness... we couldn't afford our starting SG to have numbers like he had last year. I'm not convinced of anything with Q so it is possible he would have another similar year. The guy is delusional if he thinks he could compete with Devon for PG minutes.
He is a Jayhawk, and I'll respect that, but I'm not losing sleep over this.
Basketball season is still a long ways off. I expect to hear more positive news soon.
Maybe we dodged a bullet.
I can't think of many situations, or any, where an OAD player wants to give his guts to D1 like the lower players. They have other things to think about... their priorities differ from the lower guys.
If we get Dotson back, I think we have a core group of players that are ready to give their guts and can make a run even if we have holes in the team.
Woodrow said:
I don't think the word "suffer" really fits here.
To people like you and me... "suffer" doesn't fit here at all. To some of these kids who have lived strange lives with plenty of odd circumstances... they must feel it as suffering.
I thought RJ explained it well. He has educated parents, but he sees this opportunity he has and relates to the possibility of a limited time making big on it. I doubt there was another skill he currently has, or will quickly obtain, that will pay him 7-figures annually.
As far as us expending so much time and effort chasing him and then coming up empty... that's what we get for going after the elites.
My plan is to stay below these top players. Build lessor guys up to the top level, or close. Some may say we do that now, but we don't. Not even close.
Wow... Aussie ball. First I heard of it I was thinking it was a dumb move. But after reading RJ's comments, it seems like the right thing for him. Why should these OADs suffer through a year of academics and very little compensation? Looks like his folks will join him and it may end up being very worthwhile, even beyond the big payday!
RJ was honest in saying he never wanted to play D1. So, most likely, he isn't really a loss to KU because he might have just been a spirit downer to the rest of our team.
Good luck, RJ!
Texas Hawk 10 said:
His wrist injuries were both flukes, no amount of restrictions would have prevented those beyond Doke not practicing at all.
Doesn't mean the next one would be a fluke, especially since he's had injuries on both wrists now. He does often slam hard...
AsadZ said:
Lets hope that Dok is healthy and injury free for the entire year.
I hope we put into effect some "Doke restrictions" to protect his health. Like no crazy dunks in practice.
I don't think anyone has to slide over to be counted as a PG. At least, not in the Self system.
Our history of Frank/Devonte, Mario/Russell completes the sales pitch to RJ. RJ will get plenty of PG experience without being overwhelmed.
I'm already a huge fan of Tristan... but he needs to beef up considerably to play at the D1 level. He's a guy I'd offer an immediate RS for. I bet Mitch would take one, so he is left with a lot of playing time in his senior year. He's not going to rush off for pro ball somewhere, though I do think he could earn a living with his game.
HighEliteMajor said:
Turning those words around, any chance Big Dave leaves?
I don't think that will happen. Big Mac was just starting to get used to D1 where he could contribute. This should be a good environment for him to still get some good minutes. Doke still has fouling issues and also performs better with limited stretches on the floor.
The following year will mean a mass exit from our bigs and by then Big Mac will fall right into a huge role.
ajvan said:
Too early to start discussing how Silvo and Doke will coexist when they're on the floor at the same time? My hope is that Silvio's secretly developed a trey and the foot speed to guard on the perimeter.
I'd settle for Silvio showing a good midrange game, and I think that will be a definite! We can do plenty with that!
FarmerJayhawk said:
The expectation is he'll be back. The Silvio news doesn't hurt those chances at all. Ditto RJ
Right... and the group psyche here seems to be a real "team unity" focus! Everything is pointing to all of these guys really excited to play together!
kjayhawks said:
The rain sweeping thru Kansas this afternoon is the tears of the rest of the B12. Enjoy your one years folk, we are coming back.
...or the Godly cleansing of our program... washing away all the allegations and innuendos... all the way through "we'll do what it takes to get Zion here."
So hold on... expect "cleansing" for several more days!
I think the piece that counts is Dotson. Takes the pressure off RJ.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhaaa!
Hehhhehheheheheeheheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Concerning RJ's decision... is it "all or bust?"
"Going further, Rod Hampton said he could see his son playing for any of the three programs on his list of finalists and added that the return of Dotson, and potentially even Quentin Grimes, who joined Dotson and Dedric Lawson at the NBA's pre-draft combine in Chicago last week, would only make KU a more attractive option for the top remaining uncommitted player in the 2019 class.
“That’s a three-headed monster,” Rod Hampton said. “Grimes didn’t have the best year that he wanted to last year, but he can play. I saw some glimpses of him at the combine with the old Quentin Grimes I knew from high school, but this isn’t high school. So that would be a legitimate three-headed monster.”"
~KUSports.com
Since the article implies that RJ's decision is being delayed until after he and his family know the outcome of who stays in the draft... and since his direction is towards Texas Tech, Memphis and Kansas... I presume the delay is to see what happens with the Kansas players.
I also presume it is important who returns, and maybe Grimes, Dotson, and perhaps De Sousa, all need to return, or at least some need to return.
My guess is Dotson returning is the final piece that turns RJ to Kansas and Grimes and possibly De Sousa are "icing on the cake" even though the outcome of De Sousa relates to the NCAA decision, coming before the ice age ends mankind.
What is your opinion?
If something happens and Silvio is free to play next year. Watch out! I have it from reliable sources that he has become a complete beast. He'll manhandle the entire NCAA field. And to have him beside Doke... We will bully our way directly to the Final Four. We experienced a timid Silvio the first time. He isn't timid any longer. And he's even stronger and more skilled. He will dominate everyone in college basketball.
I like your reasoning. Did Virginia have 1 or 2 elite athletes? I can't recall.
I'm not putting this out there to question Self. I understand that a coach will put a high value on elite athleticism. I just don't believe we've always come out well on that direction. I do praise Self for going after Dedric. Self had to know he wasn't an elite athlete but had such great fundamentals. Perhaps the same can be said about Frank Mason.
Maybe we need to characterize "fundamentals" better... call it "toolbox."
FUNDAMENTALS VS ATHLETICISM
Back to this...
Question for all...
Would you rather have a good athlete who knows the game, knows "Self ball", or would you rather have an extreme athlete who is weak on fundamentals and Self ball?
Example: Weakside help. Do you want a good athlete who knows how to space on the floor, is alert in the game, and moves in for help when needed? Or is it okay to have an extreme athlete who is out of position and maybe slow to reacting to the offense but quickly adjusts to be there and help when it counts?
This makes me think of Zion. I don't think I've seen anyone better at making up the distance on a close out. But is that adequate?
Is extreme athleticism necessary if players know how to play? Look how poorly Dedric has performed in the athleticism area with the NBA tryouts. It's hard to get by without top notch athleticism at that level. But it looks like he can still put up his numbers. What if we had a team full of Dedrics.... could we win? Could we win it all?
It seems like athleticism will only take us so far. At what point do we draw the line and look at other players a bit slower but can really play? Do we ever have the uber athlete long enough to teach him how to play with good fundamentals?
Kind of seems like Frank Mason fits in the category of fundamentals more than extreme athlete. Yes... Frank had solid athleticism, especially when considering his beefed up frame. But Frank was not a track star... he couldn't jump out of the gym. He created his scoring space by using fundamentals more than leaping over anyone. His "blow by" speed was respectable... but it was mostly about positioning his body in between the ball and defender, and using the glass intelligently.
I think JoJo is a fine example of where the game is going. If he had come around 20 years ago, he would have been pushed into the limits of a low post player. All his developmental efforts would be focused on developing back-to-the-basket low post moves.... aka Kareem Abdul Jabbar all over again. Now JoJo is a real threat from the trey line and he can pull big men out on the perimeter so other teammates can more easily attack the rim. JoJo works hard on his handles and shows the world how he can drive to the rim from midrange all the way to the top of the key. Granted the JoJos and Durants are not the current norm of the average player... but I feel like they represent the direction of the game. At least, for the tall players. It's x-axis basketball pushing the bigs to adjust to the new game. The game where scoring space is mostly a horizontal angulation formula instead of a vertical competition for scoring over the top. So much of this is driven by the 3-shot. The obvious is exposed when we see plays where a player has an easy basket in the paint but still feeds it out for a 3-shot attempt, sometimes even contested.
Here is an idea. What if we pull back on the 3? How about we give those shots 2 1/2 points? That means, 2 points and a half point that will be cashed in on the next made 3. Sounds nuts... but many of us are tired of the 3 actually being the star of the game more than what the players potential brings.
I'd like to see the midrange return. I'd like to see the low post game return. Will we ever see another Kareem in this game? I don't think so. Not in the direction we are going. And I'm a proponent for x-axis basketball... something the trey shot has totally pushed onto the game.
I miss true rebounding battles. But that means pulling players off the trey line and turning it back into a post game again.
I miss a baseline game... Kelly Tripucka... Jamaal Wilkes...
I miss those fast break teams that always finished at the rim, where the line in the sand used to be drawn.
Maybe 1/2 a point would reengineer the game again... ha...
Ask yourself: "Is this really what we have to do to win?"
These OADs are the "fools gold" we've all been talking about for a few years now.
It's the "let's take the lazy approach" to college basketball. After all, it is hard to find good players who will work their butts off through college. And I mean WORK! I mean maximizing their time to make it all about basketball and academics.
We get a team of these guys and we beef up our developmental coaching, we are going to win a lot of games. More than we win now.
I don't know how much more of this OAD drama I can handle. The quality of D1 has dropped so far it is unrecognizable.
But until we change to a true developmental program, I'll cheer on the big talent. It's about all we have now.
I don't want us to become another Duke. Duke was the laughing stock of college basketball last year... losing with all that NBA talent. Coach K looked like a washed up coach. He could hardly have wished for a better scenario than he had.
I miss real basketball!
Now I'm disappointed. No mudslinging to feed my passive aggressive tendencies. Think I'll have some sorbet. If things warm up in here... give me a shout.
I've been so desperate I'm calling myself names. 2020 election can't come quick enough.
I NEED DRAMA!
Sincerely, Dingleberry
Yes! Double-digit rebounds, especially some offensive boards, not only means added possessions, but he's almost automatic under the basket to score.
So let's say Devon returns. How many games do we lose if Doke stays healthy all year?
I seem to recall we were undefeated with him last year.
I concur; all these rule changes create odd results and make the game feel "gimmicky."
And the game is still morphing around the 3-pt line. Up until recent, it seemed like it would doom all big guys. Now big guys grow up shooting treys instead of back to the basket post up moves.
Who knows? Eventually, maybe the game will be dominated by the trees again, all like Durant.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
<a href="/user/approxinfinity" class="mention">@approxinfinity</a> you are a dork!🥴
We are all dorks here.
I'm too sublime to be a dork. I'm a dingleberry!
wissox said:
Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.
Decided he didn't want to become the "Raging Cajun"
D1 game coaching is pathetic. It is so rare to even see a team play a "2 for 1" at the end of the half or game. I can only think of a few college coaches that could effectively use a fouling scheme.
Pros are a completely different story. I do believe Wilt would have a tough time in the league these days because of the intentional foul.
Wilt wouldn't be the force today for other reasons, too.... primarily, the fact that the 3-point shot has completely changed the game. An x-axis team like GS would murder a Wilt-dominant team today.
The Big Dipper was fortunate he came along when he did. Same can be said about most of the talented trees.
Within a few more years, I doubt we see any trees left unless they can bomb the 3. JoJo is fortunate to have a trey shot.
Haha... I always thought KU was the best at adding inches.
But seriously, I stood just a few feet away from Kevin and he is every bit of 6'10" or taller.
"Tilt-a-Wilt!"
Either an amusement ride or a "Hack-a-Shaq" reference.
The 3-pt line has changed the game. It really has put pressure on players to do better at the FT line.
If Wilt played today, he would live at the line and I'm not sure that would be a plus... no... actually, I know the answer there. Wilt would be removed from end-of-game scenarios.
I'm pretty sure a new variant would come along... one we have yet to really see in practice..
"Jilt-a-Wilt!"
Players would go after Wilt aggressively without regards to possibly fouling. So sometimes they would get the steal or tie-up, other times a foul, both situations would bode well for them.
I'm surprised no Big 12 teams have figured that out about Doke. Why not go after him on every play in the game? It makes sense. Rush in for the tie-up and who cares if you foul?
What is KD? Is he a guard, forward? Is he 6'9" or 7'?
Wiki has him at 6'9"... I've stood near him and he's taller than that. I believe 6'11"
I think of him as a 6'11" guard. Hard for me to see him as a forward because of his handles.
Since every relevant direction is fair in this thread...
WILT VS KAREEM
Which player was more valuable?
Comparing stats:
Games played: WILT - 1045 KAREEM - 1560
MPG: WILT - 45.8 KAREEM - 36.8
PPG: WILT - 30.1 KAREEM - 24.6
FG%: WILT - .540 KAREEM - . 559
FT%: WILT - .511 KAREEM - .721
RPG: WILT - 22.9 KAREEM - 11.2
APG: WILT - 4.4 KAREEM - 3.6
I realize both players are very athletic and skilled in fundamentals (though differently).
For arguments sake... I've got Wilt as the "more athletic" and Kareem as the "more fundamental."
I know I have a KU bias. But I think I would still tilt Wilt. His boards and defensive prowess reminds me that all players on the court always knew when he was in the game or not. I can't say that at the same level with Kareem.
The biggest factor working against Wilt was his FT%. He might have done better blindfolded!
BeddieKU23 said:
Well I guess going to KU still gives a kid the exposure to get these chances despite a poor season. If he's at any other school not named Duke/UK/UNC he's not invited.
Good luck to the kid. The success rate for these types is extremely low
Even though KU players have had mixed results in the league, it is well reported that most NBA teams count KU on a resume as being a very positive thing. What they see as paramount is "defensive fundamentals."
It's hard to assess this from the outside. Take Vick as an example. I think most or all of the players liked Vick and knew him well. The reasons why might not have been positives for the team. I'll leave it at that.
I think it is "un-American" to deprive any citizen of their right to profit from their likeness.
I read several players really praising Grimes. I think he is well liked by all. He seems to be a good kid.
I just thought he looked lost out there, really all year. He didn't show much instinct for the game. Never in the right spot for a rebound. Bad hedging to stop the drive. A foot slow on loose balls. Turnovers... turnovers... turnovers!
It's really hard to get that many minutes and show goose eggs on a stat sheet. Eventually, the ball falls in your lap and falls into the goal, even if you were blindfolded. I know that sounds like a weird statement, but how he managed to stay out of the way of the ball became completely frustrating to watch. I can't ever recall a Jayhawk receive that many minutes and contribute so little.
It felt like we were playing 4 on 5 all year. And I like Grimes... the poor fella never found his way!
Perhaps since we didn't take advantage of Grimes' strengths... maybe that is a reason we haven't landed more talent recruiting this year. Perhaps? I could see some recruits thinking... "what if that happens to me at Kansas!"
I don't know... just an idea.
Thanks for your post. Very informative.
Do you think our program sometimes inhibits players from showing their true game?
Or maybe he has just been blown away by the crowds and publicity. Maybe he has stage fright?
Maybe he played the entire year "trying not to screw up?"
I'm at a loss on this one myself. I think he has tanked his future from this year and needs to bounce out of it for a resurrection! I hope he does that. If he turns pro, he's going to have a rough time getting anywhere, but it will be a testament of his fortitude.