🏀 KuBuckets Archive

So, by this logic, because others steal from the local 7-11, we can't prosecute the one that gets caught because everyone else is doing it.

And no, it's not coming down hard on one Shoeco. All it would be is imposing sanctions on a university that got caught with a recruiting partner that paid players. There is zero need to come down "hard" on a ShoeCo. The DOJ already did that.

The NCAA can punish KU. Easily. Whether they do or not is another question.

But it's good to know that we have "Supreme Court case" we can fall back on ...

@SlickRockJayhawk Wrong. In so many ways. Like, not tracking.

You first suggest that my position denies "companies" the choice of paying the athletes to advertise. No it doesn't. Not at all. Can Coca-Cola go to Udoka and say "Udoka, here's a contract for $2 million to represent Coca-Cola and market our product?" Of course it can. There's nothing stopping that transaction except the athlete saying "no." Absolutely freedom of choice. In fact, this is what every kid does at varying levels. Weighs the cost/benefit.

Your next point is that it denies the "personal choice of (the) college athletes who want to accept money from" companies. Not it doesn't. Udoka can say yes to the scenario above.

In fact, Darius Bazely skipped college and signed a shoe deal with New Balance. There is nothing stopping them. Bazley made the decision NOT to go to college and take money from New Balance. Good for him.

And there's that tricky issue of personal choice.

No, see, where you miss the point, and many others miss the point (in different ways), is that the NCAA (as a conduit for it's member institutions) just establishes the internal rules. So if you want to participate in college athletics through the NCAA, you can't engage in certain conduct. Just rules. Not laws. Do you want to participate, take the scholarship, take the tuition, room, meals, gear, etc? And the platform to market their skills? Or do something else? It's no different than if you are working at a company, coaching kids in at rec league, or volunteering for a charitable board of directors. By making the choice to participate, you are foreclosed from other things.

A pretzel is just a tube of bread wrapped in a nice package.

@justanotherfan I'm sorry, but your business model suggestion is proven wrong by years of multi-billion dollar success. By the billions in contracts reaped in he pros by the athletes it helped produce. The NCAA has created a highly successful business. Really, it's quite amazing. Your post displays a lack of understanding of businesses in general. Take away key elements of most every business, and that business can collapse. But that's what folks who hate companies and owners of businesses, of course, ignore - the risk and day to day stress of running something that can collapse.

It is capitalism. And that's good. I've suggested that if the NCAA is such a horrible entity, and product, and it is so unfair to athletes, where's the competition?

The answer is easy -- the athletes, without the NCAA, are not marketable and can't sustain profitability to keep a business going.

No, but what will happen is a UK booster tells the player, come to UK, I'll pay you $50,000 to advertise for my used cars. Or the Duke booster says he'll pay $100,000 so he can use the kid's picture to advertise for his pharmacy chain. Or a kid wants to record an album so a booster for UCLA sets him up with his buddy producer who pays him $70,000 for his audition.

And it ... will ... never ... be ... enough.

So no, it's not the end of civilization (a generally dismissive remark), but it will eventually lead to the end of CBB as we know it.

We love KU BB. I can never understand folks that want to set in motion a process that will lead to the end of something that we love.

Why can't folks leave well enough alone? Change is not always good.

And it is "well enough." Players get enough. Their only worth is derived from participating in NCAA activities. Without the NCAA, they're worth is zero (meaning, from a marketing and athletic revenue perspective).

When folks make decisions based on the poor black kid who has to support his family, that destroys any logical analysis. We are immediately supposed to convulse and react with compassion, and that "compassion" is supposed to dictate the playing field for everyone else.

That is how one perspective makes decisions and judgments. Feelings. Contrived or otherwise. Maybe, just maybe, we should be spending more time looking at why that black kid is supposedly needing to support his family. Where is the family? Where is the dad? Why did his brother get shot in a drive by? Why does he have a child of his own and is only 19 years of age? Why do his two sisters each have different last names?

Right, it's the system's fault and the NCAA needs to pay the kids more because of the inner city mess.

That is what this all about. The inner cities are a cesspool -- where many of these athletes come from, so we have to pay them because their family structure is a mess and they supposedly need it. That's all this is.

I saw Tim Tebow attacked this past weekend, and yesterday, because he had the temerity to oppose California's idiocy (referring to the pay deal for athletes -- I know, it could be anything). Not only attacked, he was demonized, mocked, called every name in the book, white privilege, ignorant, etc. Of course, there's always the undercurrent of insults from those on one side of the political fence about his Christianity.

I saw a post by Jeff Allen, a professional athlete. There was a big hit in the KSU/MSU game, and he was mocking Tebow, asking if it was a privilege to get hit like that. Again, these folks are just lacking all logical application. It is a privilege to play. How many kids would give anything to be in that position? That have worked hard but just aren't good enough. And the kid that got hit is playing by choice. Personal choice. But no, because he's playing football and gets hit hard there's something that creates some entitlement to more than he's getting.

It's that personal choice thing that, again, one side of the fence always avoids. One side of this argument has feelings. One has logic. One claims the system (or anything by the individual) is to blame. One focuses on personal choice and decisions. Sound familiar?

justanotherfan said:

dylans said:

Last I checked it wasn’t illegal in any state to sell your image, just against ncaa rules. So what changes with the California ruling? Just more pressure on the ncaa to allow players to make money?

Exactly. This puts pressure on the NCAA's rules on eligibility. If you are a regular scholarship student, you can profit off your name and likeness in any field. However, if you are a scholarship athlete you cannot.

Chad Thomas, a former player at Miami (now with the Cleveland Browns) was a rapper and music producer in college. He was featured on several major albums, but the NCAA forbid him from promoting or profiting from his music, or they would take away his eligibility (story ↗) That's pretty pathetic, if you ask me. A kid that majors in biology could certainly profit from research that they did. A kid on a band scholarship could play gigs on the weekends for money.

But if you are an athlete, you cannot do anything to make money, or you risk your eligibility.

Guess what? Don't be a student-athlete then. You have made a choice. You get substantial benefits that the other students don't get.

What's most comical is that the players wanting to make money on their likeness would have no likeness to market except for the fact that they are an NCAA athlete. Right, without KU what does Udoka, for example, market? And without KU, no one would care about Udoka or what he might want to market, or his "image or likeness."

How simple minded is this?

And yes, athletes can work and do many things to make money. They actually get paid for time they spend working camps. They can hold jobs if they want to. Ah, but when the facts get in the way, the response is that they don't have the time. So I'll address that. Guess what, DON'T TAKE THE SCHOLARSHIP THEN!

It's a free country. Go market yourself. Go make money. Go do whatever you want. The only stipulation is, that if you are going to get your college paid for, get free gear, get free residence and food, you can't do certain things. And for those who have professional sports aspirations, you get and incredible platform to market yourself to the next level. Right? Using the universities' resources to do that.

It's mindset of the segment of society (we know which one) that expects things to be given to them that others have.

What's pathetic is the mindset that one can take something another is offering, another party's product, another party's facilities, another parties' resources, and then want to change the deal.

A great idea would be for the NCAA to just eliminate athletic scholarships altogether. Like D-III. Or the Ivy League.

You want to hear these same whiners WHINE then? And it would be unfair. Oh, then they'd have a RIGHT to a scholarship. I'm sure some 9th circuit judge could find it right there in the Constitution (you know, because they interpret it that way).

But you know what, they could market their image, they could have time to work that job they want, they could go to a JUCO on the cheap, and then get more free gov't money in grants to finish their education. And also (gasp) have student loans to pay.

Suddenly, the value of that scholarship seems a bit more worth it to, again, 99% of the kids that benefit.

Well if they do penalize us I’m sure there is “a legal arguement could be made and won by KU if the NCAA oversteps in this case.”

Just like that. A legal argument. Out of thin air. I’m sure that can happen. I mean, you know, if the NCAA “oversteps.”

There are certain parts of the body from where we should not speak.

Best win since ... ?

And I am so happy we got rid of that God awful oversized Jayhawk on one side of the helmets.

So you think the WVU coach gets a bonus for beating KU, or is there a penalty clause for losing?

@jayballer73 I don’t know. Sounds like a no brainer but some of these guys and their handlers have no brains. They see only the here and now, they don’t think long term. For some, maturing in college is a better development plan and can help pave the way to more longevity. For others of course, college is a waste of time. The problem, I think, sometimes, is the concept that it is a no brainer as long as you know you can just earn money playing. Do you want to be playing in Turkey, or the NBA, in 10 years?

@BeddieKU23 Heck, I still dream of making it to the NBA. But the Devil didn't want what I was selling.

BShark said:

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Not a fan.

Apparently he is visiting for late night as well. Really tough to get a read on this class.

You know, when you shoot low ...

Love is going to MU. My prediction is in.

Marco said:

@HighEliteMajor and not a one of those are true, atleast in proven sense, in regards to Adidas and its affiliation with KU.

Just read the highlighted portion. You're saying with a straight face that Adidas and Gassnola have not, "Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes"?

Now, the argument comes in my opinion on the fact that the classic "booster" doesn't do what Adidas and Gassnola do. In fact, the rules prohibit what Gassnola did on its face .. helping with recruiting. So I think the real argument there is the NCAA's application of the rules historically. That everyone who relies on Adidas or Nike to help are violating the rules as written. For example, "boosters" can't contact recruits for recruiting purposes. At least an argument. On the other hand, they were requested.

@Marco I think we did this dance before. Did you ever read the rule on boosters? Go to the NCAA rules and read the definition of a booster. Gassnola was more a booster than the generic car dealer. Gassnola specifically aided in recruiting. Had direct contact with coaches. We know where the NCAA's head is on this. We had to concede the booster status in the SDS deal.

Here's the definition of a booster -

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:

•Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.

•Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.

•Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.

•Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.

•Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.

•Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.

•Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.

So based on the BYU decision, how does KU escape? The BYU decision, if I’m looking at this from the KU bubble, seems to pave the way for the results we are fearing. This was activity by a booster.

In fact, Gassnola was much closer to our staff than the boosters in BYU’s situation. Gassnola was relied upon for extensive, hands on recruiting help.

Anyone think the NCAA did this to BYU as a purposeful precursor to the punishment decisions related to the Adidas issues?

Gassnola as we all know doesn’t have to talk to the NCAA. But the NCAA can pay him for info. But he can’t change his story so to speak from sworn testimony, e.g., Self didn’t know. Based on the BYU deal, the “Self didn’t know” defense is a weak one.

@BShark @drgnslayr I want to be really clear that I’m not anti-Hudy. In fact I’m very pro-Hudy. I wish she would have stayed. I just see her as a relatively replaceable cog.

All I know is we are getting real close to KU hoops again. And we are loaded for a NC run.

Great topic. I do think it's easy. All the NCAA has to do is simply abide by its rules. Suspend players that violate the rules. Punish schools that harbor rule breaking activity. California law doesn't trump the NCAA's internal rules. The state court can't make the NCAA not suspend someone. The NCAA can and should just ignore it. The last state's lead anyone should be following is California.

We should all be offended by one state legislature trying to change how a private organization operates nationwide. This has nothing to do with health and safety. It's a preference on how a private organization operates. While I know one side of the political fence just doesn't care about process. They only care about if their agenda succeeds in the current moment.

Good grief, Hudy was no where near the head coach, as a comparison. Just ridiculous. She was just the strength and conditioning coach. That’s all. She was a role player. She had a job.

And she wasn’t a miracle worker. She wasn’t a savior.

It will be quite amazing when KU basketball survives just fine without her. In fact it will be quite amazing when we notice zero difference.

I maintain, as I have for quite some time, that KU should run the same offense Army runs (Flexbone). Georgia Tech ran it for years. It’s a preparation nightmare. Few teams run it. Few coaches understand it. It requires a less talented QB (meaning passing skills). The QB needs to be an excellent runner (which is easier to find). You can use smaller linemen because much of the blocking is cross, angles, traps, etc. Recruiting is easier on offense.

But it’s irrelevant with Miles as coach. He’s not a flexbone coach.

Enough of my advice.

I do trust Les to find the answer though. Patience. He’s a winner and won’t accept failure. Let’s judge in 2021-22. Our program is horrible. Can’t cure that overnight.

@approxinfinity I deleted due to my ridiculous oversight.

@Gorilla He may have also received that ever influential pay raise.

@KUSTEVE Your spelling reference prompted me to mention that it is "hatches" not "hatchets." But the nice thoughts are appreciated I'm sure regardless of what is being battened down.

@KUSTEVE Yes, that getting caught thing separates many in life ...

... if any of us had the opportunity, while a college student, to do the deed on the court at AFH with the right co-ed, we'd be fools not to engage. Just my opinion.

Sorry, but Jesse Newell is twice the writer as Bedore. Bedore is a pud. Newell actually knows the game (basketball). Bedore is a suck up as are most of the KU press crew. Years of stupid, softball questions asked with the sole purpose of maintaining their access. The KC Star uses Newell as an analyst, not a reporter. The KC Star is a rag, and it's not surprising it would drag everyone that associates with it down the in the sewer.

Journalism? True journalism is dead. Completely dead. Zero credibility. Worse, purposefully and intentionally lying and distorting to serve their agenda. In other parts of the world, it was called propaganda.

@KUSTEVE You are so right, "living in a Skip Bayless world." Can you believe he and Stephen A. Smith used to be on the same program? Goodness. Both are just disgusting, loudmouth, fools. It is exactly why the beautiful women we were discussing from decades ago are all that more beautiful .. we got little snippets. We weren't deluged with all of the crap we get today. You had some great names, by the way.

@KUSTEVE Jaclyn Smith, Erin Gray, Catherine Bach ... you cannot top this.

@KUSTEVE Angie Dickinson

@jhawk7782 I was kind of kidding around with @approxinfinity on the “spectrum” thing. He knows I was likely to jump both feet into offending ...

@approxinfinity I've now made the choice to abstain from further commenting now that the term "spectrum" and "Hudy" have been used in the same comment.

@KUSTEVE Cool that my other four were acceptable. You've made a strong, strong suggestion ... zero disagreement. Comin' back at you with Heather Locklear and Jayne Seymour.

KUSTEVE said:

@drgnslayr I'm sure she has an assistant. The beauty of having someone wonderful like Hudy is that all the hard work has already been done. Now they probably won't be as cute or as personable at Andrea, but I'm sure they'll do a good job.

@KUSTEVE Ok, in another thread you questioned Marilu Henner and you just called Hudy “cute”?

I don’t know what to say to that ...

KUSTEVE said:

@HighEliteMajor Marilu Henner? I think not.

Oh I think so. Natural beauty. But I was a Valerie Bertinelli guy too.

Marco said:

How about Top10 busts?

1) Raquel Welch, 2) Emily Ratajowski, 3) Sofia Vergara, 4) Marilu Henner, 5) Phoebe Cates ... no, wait ...

wissox said:

@KUSTEVE I forget who it was but someone got kicked off the 88 championship team. That's all time knucklehead there. Clint Normore went from an anonymous KU football player to a semi legendary basketball player because of it. The Morris bros were semi knuckleheads as well.

We had some bad luck too .. Archie Marshall hurt, Marvin Branch ineligible. I saw the mention of Lincoln Minor. Remember Otis Livingston? He was supposed to be a factor. There was another guy who was ineligible I think too. All the bad luck was really good luck. Just amazing.

Amazing how our program savior (Andrew Wiggins) isn’t on ANYONE’S list.

And no Josh Jackson. No X. No Selby. No Cliff. No Grimes.

Another that sticks out — No Selden.

KUSTEVE said:

@wissox That's when I realized what a genius Roy Williams was as a coach. He took a marginal talent, taught the guy to seal off his man in the post, and make the easy layup. He became a force on our team. That's some great coaching with that one.

I realized it when we smoked UNLV at Madison Square Garden in the 89-90 season. Back-cuts galore. One of my favorite non-March games.

@approxinfinity Adonis was awesome. Loved how he commanded the floor. Right behind Mason as far as KU PG in my opinion. Hard nosed. Tough D. Excellent 3 ball. Nails as a ball handler.

Ok, Top Ten non-studs, but great Kansas players -- lunch pail, blue collar, bleed crimson and blue. Here are my top 10: 1) Jeff Graves, 2) Kevin Young, 3) Clint Normore, 4) Nick Bradford, 5) Landon Lucas, 6) Patrick Richey, 7) Conner Teahan, 8 ) Chris Piper, 9) Tyrel Reed, 10) Jamari Traylor. (I love Tarik Black, but just had him one season).

@approxinfinity Really, you liked @Marco's list of 1) David Padgett, 2) J.R. Giddens, 3) T.J. Pugh, 4) Tyrone Appleton, and 5) Luke Axtell? I only saw these five before he deleted.

@rockchalkwyo 1) Mason 2) TRob 3) Hinrich 4) Jordan 5) Releford 6) Collison 7) Collins 8 ) Manning 9) LaFrenz 10) Simien -- others I debated including were Chalmers, Withey, Graham. Just my favorites.

You?

I think who is better depends on your team. I think Dedric could be a magical fit in some circumstances. But if I got to choose regardless of fit, I'd take Silvio. No question.

@rockchalkwyo Nothing against Dedric, but you're first I've ever heard that would put him in their top 10 Jayhawks.

Wouldn’t .. I’m not that great at giving compliments.

Remember the old adage, guards win championships. Lots of examples of a stud PG leading a team to the promised land. Would trade Dotson for any other PG in the country right now.

@KUSTEVE We are saying the exact same thing .. mine just with sarcasm. And it might be the prison cell that others have helped create for him.

KUSTEVE said:

@drgnslayr There were two black guys working next to each other in the office where I work, and one of the guys excelled, while the other one struggled. The one that struggled would always call for help from the manager, and the other always handled his deals from start to finish. I tried to encourage the guy that was struggling, but he told me that the customers were just too racist, and wouldn't buy from a black man. I friended the struggling guy on Facebook, and got bombarded with a daily dose of racial injustices ( real or perceived ) that he furiously posted for hours at a time. I think both gentlemen found what they were looking for - Brandon found racial injustice in a world he perceived as unjust and unfair, and the successful guy got promoted to manager. Tim made bank, and Brandon posts on Facebook. Injustice is always there to be found if that's what you're looking for.

Sounds like Brandon needs reparations.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

Had she remained at KU, Hudy's job would have looked slightly different this fall.

KU in May announced a "groundbreaking" collaboration with University of Kansas Health System and LMH Health called Kansas Team Health, aiming to minimize potential conflicts of interest between medical personnel and the university's coaches and administrators. Under the policy, Hudy and about 40 other sports medicine staffers — other strength and conditioning coaches, physicians, athletic trainers, nutritionists and wellness coordinators — were to be converted to employees of University of Kansas Health Systems, reporting to medical professionals rather than athletic department personnel.

That was from Topeka cap.

Sounds like the AD is being proactive so as to make med staff independent. Would seem to be a good move to help limit liability. Just a thought.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@dylans 2 yrs w/Dedric?

Lots of magic in the weight room, but you can't make someone athletic.

Dedric is definitely on your "coal in the stocking" list ...

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7936919/strength-coach-andrea-hudy-plays-huge-role-success-kansas-jayhawks-program-men-college-basketball ↗

Good article from a few years ago.

Clint Normore .. a two sport icon.

I hope they win the appeal. It has always seemed to be a ridiculous claim to file federal charges. But the trial judge didn't dismiss it and they were convicted. The conviction seems really unjust to me given the total circumstances.

dylans said:

Besides it was a accidentally racist rule made by a committee on basketball that knows nothing about the inner workings of basketball.

What? Please help me understand how the rule is accidentally racist.

BeddieKU23 said:

@HighEliteMajor

I can see it getting in the way of any significant changes though which is a big concern. If he didn't change something after watching Nova run laps on us in the Final 4 what's going to be the final straw?

@BeddieKU23 Remember old @JayHawkFanToo. Miss the old chap. It was always, "It's all the players' fault." I have no idea after the Nova disaster why that was not an extreme wake up call.

But I have faith. Complete faith. The best coach in KU's history will get this figured out.