🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@Kcmatt7 There is another dynamic here. We might recruit better with another coach. Folks want OADs. But Self has a reputation of not being OAD friendly. If I'm the parent of a presumed OAD, with that mindset, my kid would not be going to Kansas.

Self is the one that owns his recruiting. It's Self's baby. He's recruiting to a top 5 program.

Even further, I'm sure that the Adidas deal needed his blessing. If he felt it was an albatross or something, he could have nixed it. If I'm a coach, I'd rather have less money but better recruiting help. He made his own bed with Adidas. He's the boss.

Generally, I think we/me/all of us need to stop this blaming of Adidas. This is all on Bill Self (recruiting). All of it. Good, bad, indifferent.

JAYHAWKFAN214 said:

THEY WAS NOT GONING TO leave adidas

I couldn't have said it better .. well, maybe I could have but that's not the point. Fused at the hip with Adidas.

[crickets]

@BigBad You can run a sparkling offense with two back to the basket bigs. Conscious of spacing, angles, etc. The dilemma for defenses is that if you sag and help toward the other big, a big can take two or three steps and post up, choosing his own angle. That's a major threat you can't concede. It's much different than having a 4, for example, that is not a true threat to post up. Our example might be Traylor. Zero shooting ability. He was a true clogger because the way to guard him was to sag off .. because his threat was driving. Teams killed us sagging off of Traylor. I think defenses welcomed any of his attempts to post up. He was no threat there.

Sure, I'd rather have flex out 4 that can post and shoot. But we don't have that. And I'd rather have Dave on the floor as second big, than Garrett as a fourth perimeter player.

Self won't do it. Self is way too married to his man--to-man, and he doesn't have the fortitude to force teams to match up with him. This can work with a 3-2 zone (and our perimeter defense would be better -- I guess it can't get worse).

Can we get Doke to do granny style free throws? Guaranteed major improvement.

@nuleafjhawk I think you're on to something. A lot of soft layups off the glass. Dedric didn't bring that attitude. Grimes certainly not. I think Vick and Doke did, and I think Dotson and Agbagi did too. But tough is good. Tarik Black mode. Good dude, but a bad a**.

@nuleafjhawk Agreed .. I do think he has the skills to compete for national POY. But we may not see it here.

@BeddieKU23 @justanotherfan Completely agree. Heck, it may be impossible for Garrett to make an entry pass to Doke. His guy could just sag deep. He's Releford without the shot.

And Greg Luzinski if I recall correctly .. a man that should have been an AL DH.

When I see the name McBride, all I can think of is Bake McBride, of the many legends of 'fro from the 70s.

!alt text ↗

The unfortunate reality might be that the light at the end of the tunnel may be the proverbial on coming train, in the form of the NCAA, and a tourney ban.

I struggle to have any sense of positivity until that mess is done.

But on the court? I like your thinking. We are literally two players away -- Tucker and SDS.

BeddieKU23 said:

I can't imagine Memphis can land Tucker they already have a Top 50 player at his position coming in DJ Jeffries. Auburn is definitely going to be tough to beat for him as he fits their system to a T.

KU desperately needs him.

Correct on all counts.

@BeddieKU23 Agreed. The big key, as you mentioned, is to try to marginalize the need Garrett's minutes. But of course, Garrett does have a role, and it could be a very important role. A player like Garrett is Self's soft spot. It is clear to me that Self, deep in his coaching mind, somehow likes the pain of a poor offensive player that does the other things at a high level. We know he views shooting as an unreliable commodity.

@Woodrow My view on roster building .. just my personal view .. involves loyalty and commitment. So when you have a potential star, and a humble one at that in Agbaji, you don't recruit over that guy. You don't bring someone in, presumptively, to push him out of his starting role. In the long run, I think that gives you a better team dynamic. Of course, competition is good. The type of competition and one year fixes aren't my preference related to what are the better players on your roster.

And Agbaji really doesn't need to improve his shot in my opinion. He needs to better improve his flow into his shot. Too many times it was grab and shoot -- appearing rushed. I think it is an easy fix, and I expect we'll see that next season. My only quibble is the feet are a bit wide but a lot of really good shooters have done that. He's got an angle to his body that is similar to Malik Newman, shot-wise, and that works for a lot of players. Just needs to maintain a shooter's tempo.

We should place our complete faith in this kid to be a cornerstone.

I don’t want anyone that causes a situation where Agbaji doesn’t start. Dotson, Tucker, Agbaji works quite nicely.

Loyalty and opportunity should be given to a guy that burned a redshirt to save our season.

@jayballer73 D*** right he’ll be back. First team all Big 12. 40% 3 ball. Making us wonder if he could reach Mason status.

Somehow now, despite the statements by coaches that they are fine with guys leaving, the spring now has a different recruiting feel. Something tells me Doke was recruited by Self all over again.

If so, job well done.

@FarmerJayhawk Nice breakdown. Any lineup where Agbaji doesn't start, I can't support, though. Agbaji has to start. Agbaji has "it" -- you heard it from me first back in January. To me, that's the one given. Agbagi starting. Then we fill in the next 4 (Dotson and Doke, of course, pending NBA flirtations). I will be wildly disappointed if Self has anyone start ahead of Agbaji.

@Woodrow Very interesting ... would love to have him back. A humble young man without the humbled Vick knuckleheadism.

I'll go with Garrett as the #4 perimeter guy, 10-15 minutes, if we play conventional; #5 guy, same minutes if we play 4/1. But until he can shoot 30+% from three and competently knock down a 15-17 footer, his negative will outweigh multiple positives ... by the sheer weight of having a perimeter play that teams can sag back to the lane on. That's poison to an offense.

But he's got a role, and a role that would be strategic. I think Self started him the second half vs. Tennessee. Great move (I'm thinking it was Tennessee).

For what it's worth, until a MAJOR SHIFT is made FUNDAMENTALLY with Garrett, we'll never know. It's worth forcing him to make a major change. I advocate extended arms, high above heard, using mostly all wrist. That way, old habits can't overtake. Tweaks permit bad habits to creep back in. Further, it's clear he has no touch with his push shot.

Tucker seems like an incredibly important target here — as important as anyone right now. Perfect fit, major need.

@FarmerJayhawk I’m unaware of a penalty schedule — meaning a certain amount of games vs dollars paid a player. Each is a case by case basis I thought. But if you have something contrary, let me know.

http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/enforcement-process-penalties ↗

@Texas-Hawk-10 I think your summary may be close to the truth regarding Self. It is a sad commentary in my opinion. I perhaps had a naive view of our coach before this.

I would suggest that that witness for the prosecution, via a plea deal, has great motivation to stick to the prosecutor’s narrative. Or risks further consequences as part of the deal.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I disagree with your opinion on Gassnola, but I did not suggest that you said SDS should be cleared. I just added to your comments.

I wonder why his memory would be spotty only with regard to coaches? Perhaps that would have compromised Gatto’s conviction.

So, regarding your last comment — it’s been made in some manner or form by a lot of folks. You this believe Self blatantly lied in November?

@FarmerJayhawk There is no set penalty schedule, including for such blatant violations. You could also include the $60K from UA.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I understand why you might think that on Gatto.

But do you understand that Gassnnola was a cooperating witness for the prosecution that offered testimony so he was not prosecuted?

From reports on the trial --- "Gassnola was testifying for the prosecution to try to avoid prison, he acknowledged." A touch of motivation there I would think .. they went after the Adidas exec. And Gatto didn't testify, so you don't have to trust his testimony. It was a stipulation made by his attorney to the facts alleged by the prosecution. Maybe you don't trust that, and that's fine.

Our stand up guy Gassnola, testifying against a "great friend" to save his own skin.

On Gassnola, "At one point, one defense attorney informed Gassnola he had said “I don’t remember” or “I don’t recall” more than 20 times and reminded him he was under oath." Also -- "Gassnola had a larceny conviction in his 20s for writing bad checks. There was an assault charge, later dropped, in which a man claimed Gassnola had pointed a gun at him and boasted of friends in the local mob. There were also 'five or six' civil judgments, Gassnola admitted, including one for misleading buyers in a real estate deal. And then there was money he owed the IRS — at least $60,000, Gassnola said." Further, "In 2012, the NCAA banned Gassnola from any involvement with “certified events” — youth tournaments college coaches can attend. He briefly lost his Adidas sponsorship, until Jim Gatto, a friend of Miller’s who worked in the company’s basketball marketing division, intervened."

More from Gassnola testify against the guy that intervened to help him -- " 'Appreciate u man more than you will ever know maybe I don’t say it enough your my man', Jim, Gassnola wrote. 'Jimmy was right there for me,' Gassnola explained. 'He was a great friend.' Is that how you felt about Mr. Gatto? the prosecutor asked as Gassnola’s former boss at Adidas — a 48-year-old father of two with no prior criminal record — sat feet away, stone-faced, staring straight ahead. 'Still do', Gassnola said."

More on Gassnola -- In 2016, Gassnola said, he learned that Kansas recruit Billy Preston’s mother, Nicole Player, was taking money from other “entities” interested in her son’s talents. Concerned that these other people, whom he didn’t identify, would be “sloppy” and get Preston’s mother caught, Gassnola made her an offer: Stop taking money from everyone else, and Adidas would pay her what she needed. Over the next year, Gassnola testified, he paid Preston’s mother $89,000, in installments. In November 2016, Gassnola took out $50,000, gave $30,000 to Player and used some of the remaining $20,000 to buy Super Bowl tickets for himself and some colleagues at Adidas, he said. Two months later, he took out another $27,500 and gave $20,000 to Player. A prosecutor asked Gassnola what he did with the remaining $7,500. 'I kept it in my pocket and went shopping,' Gassnola testified."

Good grief, the guy stole $7,500 from Adidas to go shopping, and deceived his "great friend."

This is the man that Bill Self (Mr. PD - Plausible Deniability) partnered with to get recruits. This should really cause everyone great pause.

Going with your thoughts .. "because of a $60,000 payment from Under Armour." As you noted, SDS got money. The fact that the $60,000 payment was made, whether it was to go to MD or KU, created the same "fraud", as SDS would be just as ineligible to play at KU regardless of whether the payment was made by UA to go to MD, or Adidas to go to KU.

How can a kid that took money like that every play CBB?

@truehawk93 I’m sorry, but if SDS took $20,000 as Gatto admitted, then he’s getting exactly what he deserves. The term “SDS” includes his agent ... er, guardian.

The NCAA provides student athletes more opportunity than any other forum in the world. What would a rower, or softball player, or swimmer, or wrestler, etc do otherwise? Add in 95+% of golfers, BB, baseball, tennis, and football players, and the NCAA provides them free (or partially free) education and unparalleled opportunities to compete in the sports they love.

Are you really this unaware of what the NCAA does, or just so hyper focused on our little CBB world that you don’t care about the accuracy of what you say?

If SDS took the $20,000, we should be ashamed that KU is appealing this and making a mockery of the rules. In such a case we should just move on — instead we’re investing further resources into a cheater.

Self said in November that he was not aware of any improper benefits ever provided by third parties to his players. Well, his trusted recruiting partner, Mr. Gatto, said he paid SDS $20,000 to come to KU. So Mr. Plausible Deniability knows of that now. Yet we fight to get that player eligible? Embarrassing in my opinion.

Oh, and he got $2,500 cash from a KU recruiting partner and just donated it to charity? You know, because he wanted to make sure SDS didn’t violate any rules. Right.

According to Falmagne, this is all made up? That’s what you’d have to believe. Unreal.

Gatto is going to prison.

Self may have liked various players, but the “unpacked his bags” comment (in my opinion) refers to being all in when here vs being more focused on the next level.

... which implies others perhaps did not.

@BigBad I am pretty confident that Grimes set a KU single season record for charges committed. Just speculating. Never seen anything like it. Low BB IQ was the culprit.

@truehawk93 Silvio did play ... helping us to a FF. But you're right, something better happen on the Zion/Duke front.

3-2 zone with Dave and Doke in back? Let’s make teams match up with us.

“The evidence establishes very clearly that Sean Miller is paying players at Arizona," Haney said during Friday morning's hearing.

When asked by reporters following the hearing about that statement, Haney said, "You'll have to be here to hear the evidence."

Fact I didn’t know until today. Doke’s middle name? Timothy. Not what I expected.

@BShark I feel I should just let @Kcmatt7's epic stand without any trivial reply ... it is persuasive. The best line, "You make it sound so, so much easier than it is." Great post.

Perhaps that's my major weakness on this. I am making it sound too easy.

Is there any doubt, though, that a team can, quite easily, ignore presumed OADs? How many teams really even have a shot at a presumed OAD?

The question then is the results of that. How does that impact the product on the court?

I personally believe that Self is better off as a coach, without it. That he can succeed at a high level without it. He would be better without that, overall. And we can compete for titles.

Proof? What presumed OAD took us to levels we wouldn't have achieved without him for that one season? Wiggins? Second round exit (I know, Embiid was hurt). Or JJ? Elite Eight?

And remember, I have no issue with LL or JT in a proper, limited role. I barked about that on JT for what seemed like a lifetime. 10 - 12 minutes? Cool. 20+? Disaster. Same with LL. They were severely miscast as high minutes players. No one in retrospect disagrees with that, I think.

But clearly, my argument has weaknesses. The biggest one is that the top coaches DO go after the top presumed OADs. They must be doing that for a reason when considering all factors.

**Sidenote, AWIII would have started his freshman year without Wiggins on the roster. It's why I said he was "marginalized."

@Gorilla72 - I tend to be more influenced by the following info, which is some of the info vs. the self-serving statement from this clown. This might convince you "not to believe" Falmagne. Importantly, put that together with the fact that the NCAA suspended SDS for two seasons. Why would they do that? Remember, Gatto admitted making the payment. That fact was stipulated in the trial. There was no need for the government to prove that.

       "The scheme participants also agreed to make payments to the legal guardian of another student-athlete who was a top-rated high school basketball player ("Guardian-1") in order to secure the commitment of the student-athlete to attend the University of Kansas rather than another school sponsored by a rival athletic apparel company. In or around August 2017, Guardian-1 informed CC-3 that Guardian-1 had received illicit payments in return for a commitment to steer the student-athlete to a university sponsored by a rival athletic apparel company. According to Guardian-1, the student-athlete was more interested in attending the University of Kansas, but Guardian-1 would need to repay the illicit payments in order to do so."

From Gatto's lawyer, where Gatto admitted making the payment - Additionally, Donnelly acknowledged that Gatto provided a $20,000 payment to recruit Silvio De Sousa, who attends Kansas, which is sponsored by Adidas. He did so, however, only after “Under Armour had paid for De Sousa to [commit] to the University of Maryland. Jim was asked if Jim could match the offer so [De Sousa] could go to Kansas,” Donnelly said, not specifically naming who asked for the offer to be matched.

Does anyone believe Falmagne?

@Gorilla72 Do you believe Falmagne?

.... but, you know, if that $20,000 somehow falls in my pocket, I can’t stop it, and then, who knows where he'll go to school?

@Kcmatt7 I think the reference to recruiting area is clearly relevant. But that's no different than if we are recruiting top guys, or 100+. We have a proximity issue.

When you look west and south, though, kids are having to fly to most preferred destinations.

But not for one minute should any of us think that any excuse is relevant for KU. We're a top 5 program. So the excuses are irrelevant. I find the excuses laughable actually. I understand the factual nature of the data, I just find it's applicability to top 5 program, a blue blood like KU, pretty much irrelevant.

If Kansas focused on the non-OAD through - 80ish, made the commitment to avoid the presumed OAD, that would have to be attractive to a recruit in that range or higher. Logical. Why? Just look at Andrew White as an example. If I'm recruiting against KU, I say look at Andrew White. Self brings him in, then snags Wiggins and White is marginalized. White's college career was then chaos. He got run out of Kansas. Self won't commit to you. He chases the OAD. So you could be junior and he'll bring in a top guy just when you need to the PT the most to make it to the NBA. Heck, KU had Frank Mason and Devonte Graham, and Bill Self was working hard to get De'Aaron Fox, and was a finalist until the end. Would he have displaced Mason? How would that have impacted Mason's NBA prospects?

Or, we can continue to do what Self has done.

I'll sacrifice making the tourney every so often for more pronounced spikes.

And those spikes can be from talent that grows, develops, and stays longer.

@Kcmatt7 @FarmerJayhawk Do we think .. maybe .. just maybe .. it's more than about just $2,500? I think we can put 2 and 2 together and figure out that if a kid gets a two year suspension, it isn't over $2,500. Right?

@Kcmatt7 I think you bring up a very good point. I agree, sustained, consistent, year in year out success, may be compromised. But then again, I'm one that is glad the Big 12 streak is over. I think it eliminates a useless distraction. I want national titles. But I think you can be consistently successful as a blue blood without the presumed OAD mess.

From 2013 -2017, a certain team kind of did it this way. Hint, they won the NC in 2017. Also, the #9 guy was not a presumed OAD. They compete for NCs better than we do. Here are ranking numbers from that certain CBB team, '13-'17: 16/58/121; 9/15/30; 96/155; 25/48/60; 30/131/193/217/267.

This is a similarly situated blue blood.

Of course it's UNC.

I know Roy does recruit top guys, he just doesn't get them usually -- like he just got one for last season. My point is that if you look at the numbers, and if you look at the fact that in that time frame there was not one presumed OAD, it clearly makes it plausible.

@Kcmatt7 I am curious, though, what civil case? Meaning, who would be suing, and who would be getting sued, and for what?

@Kcmatt7 @BShark I don't know where the 45-60 thing comes from. Anyway ..

Here's the winning strategy - Focus efforts on those outside presumed OAD through 80ish (and specific kids that may be higher). Some years that range will vary. Once a kid is presumed OAD, get away. And always stay away from top 10. Commit to your recruits that you will never recruit over them with a presumed OAD. That's key. Never a presumed OAD. Never the top guys,. Ever.

It is not twice as easy for KU to recruit top 25 than 25+. That's fiction. If KU focused on the non-OADs, and gave its word as noted above, we'd rock in the 20ish - 80ish range.

@Kcmatt7 What civil case? No one wants a civil case. In a civil case, folks are put under oath in depositions. What actor in all of this, SDS, Guardian, Self, coaches, Adidas, AD, Chancellor -- wants that?

Mr. DeSousa (under oath) - You are an adult, correct? When you signed with KU, you were an adult? Your birthday was is Oct. 7, 1998, correct? You had a "guardian", correct? Did he transact business on your behalf even though you were an adult? What sort of business? Did you entrust him to act on your behalf? Did you take an online class? You understand such classes aren't free, correct? How did the class get paid for? Did you inquire as to who was paying the bill? Did you have contact with Adidas reps? With UA reps? Were you informed of any payments made by UA? By Adidas? When did you learn of the alleged payments? What did you do when you learned of the alleged payments? Did you talk to coach Self? What did he say? Did you talk with Gassnola? What did he say?

No one wants this.

Really, I think saying KU won’t be in the NCAA tourney because their recruiting partner, Adidas, paid a player that was suspended for two full seasons is the most effective attack tool. Seems to make sense.

It is interesting how Miller signs a kid like that, and Miller got subpoenaed just weeks ago.

nuleafjhawk said:

@BShark Yes. And Wiggins and Josh had such a huge impact on the University of Kansas. He should definitely try diligently to get more of those types of players................

Very nice, my friend.

@BShark Sorry, what "Sam" are you referring to?

@BShark Very nice. Consider it quelled! They were discussing it on 610. Maybe a well timed reaction?

Strangely silent? The athletics director.

If Self’s possible departure has been used against him, why wouldn’t the AD make some public statement related to a united front with Self?

One possibility — they ain’t. There is more chatter about this. They could quell it quite easily.

That extension would be one solid way to take care of it.

@Kcmatt7 Ah, I’ll let it go. You’re a good dude .. and you’re one of the guys that make this site worth coming to.

@Kcmatt7 I don't want a response, necessarily. There are folks that don't think Tom Brady is a great quarterback, as well.

@Kcmatt7 "He lucked into a WS." It is unadulterated B.S. I'm sorry. Folks can have opinions, but this one stands alone as the most ignorant in recent memory (apologies for the use of that word, but I can't find another one that fits). You defame the man who brought us from the cellar to a World Series championship. And not one WS, but two in a row.

The quote is what I'm focused on. If you want him fired, or whatever, fine. If you don't think he'll have another playoff team, fine. But good grief ...