Bill Self a hall of famer? Please. If he wins another NC, he'll be the greatest coach in KU history without any doubt. That's a much higher perch than a mere hall of fame.
HighEliteMajor
5416 posts
African post pipeline. "... following in the footsteps of Cheick Diallo ..."
Not the African we're thinking of, I bet.
@KUSTEVE Jinx.
@wissox Or maybe John Philip Sousa?
@jaybate-1-0 Quick search .. "Li-Ning's major shoe lines include the "Flying Armor" series of basketball shoes".
So we equip the Jayhawks in Li-Ning Flying Armor shoes. Not totally sure about that ... but I can be bought.
@JayHawkFanToo You may be right, but I like UA better than adidas or Nike. Golf gear is better. I think kids like their football gear better too.
@mayjay Interesting You bring up the stock. If anyone invests, UA stock took an interesting dip and presents a good buying opportunity if you believe in the brand. Some numbers are odd but I can't see it stagnating this low. I took the leap on the stock a week ago. Nike dipped too. But UA is down nearly 30% in the last two months. If you think this is temporary, that's free money. To get back to June levels, it's a 40% increase. Even if it takes 3 years to get there, that's great return.
@
Skip adidas .. go Under Armour.
Kruger is a good guy and a classy guy. Would have been proud if he had been a Jayhawk.
Hmmm .. let's say a guy like Forte, who has no prospects for a big time pro career is irritated with his coach (who was new) and the school (for firing his old coach). And he needs the money. Folks in certain depraved, cultural hell holes kill people and risk life in prison over a few hundred dollars. Why is it a stretch to think that an immature college kid might stick it to his old school for a chance at some money?
@JayHawkFanToo I agree with you on any manner of payment to athletes. It's always a slippery slope. Someone always wants more, or claims injustice.
@JayHawkFanToo Also makes you wonder if a sponsor could set up tournaments much like the PGA tour where there would be weekend events with cash payouts. It's of course been explored I'm sure -- and I'm sure that college and all that brings is a better deal for the players.
Of course it is -- which is another strong argument against the pay the players, anti-NCAA, players are slaves, Jay Bilas lapdog crowd.
"... because of the number of times we have had seniors who could have played in this. Teams made up of seniors (from non-FF4 teams)."
Pretty funny. We definitely do not want our seniors to be eligible for this.
Soooo … we go to battle with Doke, Preston, and Lightfoot. Not what we would ever envision for a Bill Self team, or for a possible national championship team. We always have talked about how Self pulls rabbits out of his hat. No rabbit.
I can't imagine that there isn't some big dude at a Juco that would give his left nad to be the 4th big. That guy has to be out there. Now I dream about Jamari Traylor. Or, uh .. maybe a Justin Wesley? Desperate.
@RockkChalkk When I saw the comment, I immediately thought it was very reserved. I certainly would not want to reach the conclusion that Kansas was his first choice, or that he wants to come here, or that Self made the decision on whether to accept him, based on that limited info. In fact, given how other recruits have made glowing comments after leaving a visit (and he made no comments), it might be a better indication that maybe this was not a place he preferred. That's just reading what we know. Of course it's speculation.
@KUSTEVE Southern Tenant Farmer's Union (STFU).
There is this chance, possibly, that Robinson came here and didn't like it. That Self wanted him to come. But Robinson just didn't want to come to Kansas.
@BShark Good grief .. of course Withey. Best transfer pick up by Self. KY was the guy, though, that was a dead critical need pick up at the time. Would love to have a KY fall in our laps now. But it's getting late. I agree on Whitman and Maxwell (who I always want to call Murray for some reason). Puzzling additions. Coleby did provide some value.
@brooksmd As a parent, #2 is perfect advice. I've given it .. but we've all probably had a few good things happen after midnight, right?? A long time ago, in (what feels like) a galaxy far, far away.
@AsadZ I think that comparison means that it is manageable. I hope that is the case. The Morris twins were at least manageable. Not so sure on this Lawson thing. My concern is that having roster spots filled, again, creates issues in recruiting -- if this does blow up. We seem to have enough trouble as it is nailing down quality post players.
The over-under is the semester. If this does blow up, I think we'll know by then. Our luck on transfers has not been stellar as of late with two post guys bailing quickly, and one good for only a season.
We has nice run with KY, Black, and Mickelson.
But Coleby, Maxwell, and Whitman, not so much.
@jayballer54 My question is with both of them in the game, do we run the high/low? Is Robinson high post dude? We know Doke ain't.
Amazing how one very good player changes the complete complexion of this team.
Man, we're light in the post.
@DanR Great point .. so who on this team is the "mentor"? Every team could use a Tarik Black.
@REHawk When the "F Tubby" stuff came out, I would have cut bait. But extreme need wins out over the right decision -- I guess since just landing a nice crop of post recruits seems a struggle. As of now, forgetting the bar bill thing, I think the Lawson deal was a big mistake. Time may prove that wrong. If I was betting $100 either way, it would be an easy choice right now.
@jaybate-1-0 You write amazing, intricate, interwoven pieces -- my simple mind would have just yelled, "Run the high/low, Run the high/low." The best basketball offense, ever.
... for now.
I think a question is, who broke Lightfoot's nose? Was it Lawson?
Reasonable possibilities - 1) pure accident, 2) Dedric, or 3) Whitman.
Notice that Whitman's transfer came out on July 19. The articles on Mitch's nose on July 21, referring to him having surgery (not the actual incident) and a "recent practice." Self saying he got "hit" in practice. Vague. No reference to it being an accident.
Lawson got left behind on the Italy trip because of a practice incident and how he handled it. Certainly possible. In fact, for Self to put space between that punishment announcement and the report on Lightfoot would make sense, if it went down that way.
Speculation. But there has been no info on how Lightfoot broke his nose.
@DoubleDD I would agree. I don't think any other team in the country would have done what Bill Self has done if they were in our place in the Big 12. What Bill Self does in the regular season, and in getting the most from some lesser talented guys, is unmatched. That's his clear strength.
Lots of gray. No doubt, the Big 12 is weaker than the ACC and Big 10. No way we win 13 in a row in the SEC with UK and Florida. I doubt anyone disagrees there. No way we win 13 with Arizona, UCLA and Oregon in the Pac 12. Are they better? Not sure. How about the American?
In the American, there is UConn, WSU, and Cincinnati -- all arguably better programs in the last five years than any other Big 12 team aside from Kansas. Arguably. UConn for sure is. The Big East? Butler, Nova, Creighton, G'town, Providence. Big 12 is probably better.
Am I not giving the Big 12 enough credit?
There is just too much history of big time NCAA tourney failure against the world of CBB to give the Big 12 any real credit as a conference as a whole.
@DoubleDD I actually would say that since Bill Self has been the coach at Kansas, the SEC has been just as good as the Big 12 overall; and better by the ultimate measure -- NCAA titles and Final Fours.
No way KU has this conference streak if another top 15 program is in the mix. It's just the reality of competition. We don't have any program other than Kansas in that range.
The conference streak is impressive regardless. But it has to be considered in light of the fact the obvious lack of quality of Big 12 programs in comparison to other conferences.
During Bill Self's tenure, there isn't another program in the Big 12 that even compares with the SEC #2 -- Florida.
@KUSTEVE So you polled the entire team? And you really believe Self would do something that drastic if he didn't think it was best?
64-59 - Score vs Villanova where Lucas was impotent offensively and as usual, zero rim protection.
74-60 - Score vs Oregon where Lucas was way over matched by guys who were athletically similar to Diallo. Cited for the irony, but also for the stark reality that game demonstrated in the post.
Of course, you cited a game that meant very little. I cited the two most important games of both seasons.
That said, Lucas played very well much of the time that year (2015-16). He just had times when he was overmatched due to his talent limitations -- where a better player would fair much better. Oregon is a great example. And vs Nova, we sorely needed rim protection, which Diallo offered. None of that is even debatable.
And it's not debatable that Diallo is a better basketball player. Coaches are tasked with developing that talent, not taking the easy way out and playing the comfortable, low risk option. The real risk is losing when it counts.
@KUSTEVE The comparison was Diallo vs. Robinson and the basis for the comparison was that
Robinson might get started late because of NCAA issues (like Diallo, as @Bshark observed). So that might exclude Udoka.
But pointing out Udoka makes sense. Self did start him over Lucas, which indicates Self was looking at "merit" not seniority.
Of course, though, I've never really figured out Bill Self. Many folks felt that playing Diallo and committing to him early was the best long term move. Self is the boss, and once he committed to Lucas, we ran off a great stretch of wins. Seemed like Self was right there. I was supportive of the move since Self had really not give Diallo the minutes to get better (understanding Self has certain requirements to get minutes in the first place, which we all understand is prerequisite, like it or not), and we had reached February (really the time teams need to be setting rotations pretty firmly). One wonders, though, vs. Nova if a more athletic and better player would have helped vs. Lucas. Who knows. We might not have gotten a #1 seed if we'd committed to Diallo.
What we do know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is Diallo is a better basketball player than Lucas -- Diallo is in the NBA. Lucas is playing for the Tokyo Ham Fighters, or whatever the heck they're called.
@HawkChamp - I saw today that Jesse Newell was predicting 5-10 minutes per game for Robinson. I'd be betting 12-15, which is 3rd big minutes (though playing a four guard starting lineup might change things).
We land Robinson; wait on the NCAA; he gets a late start; Self says he's behind; Self won't play him much; when he plays, we can see his potential; Self says it takes time and that he's "raw"; Self makes cryptic comments about being in the right spots; meanwhile, other programs play their freshman who need to get experience; posters claim players don't get better and don't get more comfortable from playing in games; those who know better take deep breaths so their heads don't implode; seniors supposedly vote and say they like someone else better (maybe not this time); Robinson doesn't play much; we lose short of the final four; then the season is over and he leaves -- and somehow he looks really good in the NBA D-League, lacking experience and all.
Weighing against that proven scenario - we don't have Lucas or Traylor on the roster who Self can fall back on because they go to the spots he wants, and know the system -- which Self favors over talent. Further, we a desperately thin. We need Mitchell. This is a need deal, too, not just a high talent deal.
The best situation is when Self has to play the more talented player from the start. Here, we don't have a really experienced guy ahead of him. Maybe Lightfoot knows the system inside and out and we'll be cursing his minutes vs. Robinson, but a I doubt it. Both Lucas and Traylor were in the 4th season in the system. Ronbinson is sure to get "first big off the bench" minutes at a minimum, assuming Preston and Udoka start.
Really, and not being too dramatic, but this sort of player acquisition makes a national title a realistic possibility. Without it, not so much.
And please, don't say that Jamari Traylor was a good player. He just wasn't. He did a few things well some of the time, and had a some good bursts. But that's it. His PER his senior season was 12.7, which was by far the worst of any regular .. by a full three points below the next worst player, and worse than Evan Manning. He was a Bill Self pet. A teacher's pet if there ever was one. I'd rather take my chances with Lightfoot, no doubt.
Just saw where LSU isn't recruiting Robinson any longer ... this has the look of inevitability. Self with the rabbit'from the hat.
So, if Robinson is as good as many say -- if we sign him and he sits a year -- why would he hang around for 2018-19?
@bskeet Guy and Mays in Williamsburg is an institution. Great ribs, wrapped in newspaper. Worth the trip.
@JayHawkFanToo I would never argue against Joe's, but the Mr Burns sandwich - burnt ends, pepperjack, onion straws and chipotle BBQ sauce = best sandwich ever.
Q39 is maybe better than Joe's. Maybe. A couple bucks per order more expensive, but well worth it. Down by the Med center. Can get reservations at their website. One opening at College and Antioch (old Haywards location) on Sept. 1.
Mitchell Robinson visiting KU? Self is unreal. If he poaches this guy, and he's eligible, we should never, ever worry about recruiting again.
@BShark Jackson got two quick fouls. Second one totally bogus.
@JayhawkFanToo - Inside was the killer. We're more thin to start this season. Doke is out sick today and Preston has knee soreness. It's Lightfoot. And more Lightfoot.
@BShark I didn't sense that they were tight, or overcome by the moment. Nor did I sense that Bill Self was tight -- which can lead to a tight team.
I'm interested in why you think they played tight.
I guess I came away thinking that they were a bit overconfident as @REHawk mentioned, and that we faced an opponent that was able to capitalize on some of our personnel issues. Unlike Nova, I didn't come away thinking we got out coached.
Some things conspired to create our loss - 1) Lucas was badly overmatched inside. The ceiling thing, 2) We had no additional answer inside thanks to Bragg's bong stuff, 3) Vick/Graham had poor games, and 4) Jackson was placed in immediate foul trouble by poor officiating.
I would say that I don't know whether the guys who had poor games -- Vick or Graham -- were tight. But both seemed to perform in other high pressure situations.
Of course, just my observations.
@wrwlumpy Definitely congratulations .. and for going back and doing something you presumably love to do. That's what retirement is for.
@BShark Curious, what makes you think that the team played "tight" -- "tight" implying that their underperformance was mental, not physical.
I just cleared some cookies .. my wife suggests I eat more fruit. But elfin' magic is just too tasty.
@JayHawkFanToo If Jarrett Allen would have come to KU, I think we might have a national championship last season.
@drgnslayr I made mention of this a few days ago, but I'm serious about the Rick Barry free throw shooting style. I certainly looks silly, but looking a bit silly making 70% is much better than throwing up bricks conventionally at 40%. It's absolutely crippling in late game situations. By the way, it's "poke-a-doke" -- per @JayHawkFanToo.
We are dangerously thin in the post, like I've never seen it before heading into a season. It's really even thinner than we ended the season with last year.
Preston better be really good.
Imagine if Udoka is an injury prone guy and gets knocked out for 3-4 weeks? I would never have believed a Bill Self, throw it into the post team, would have so few folks to throw it into.
Our strategy of pursuing top post players is clearly a failure -- perhaps those 20-75 guys don't look so bad now. As the priority, not the fall back, which is why we're not getting them to the extent that we need them.
@BeddieKU23 @JayHawkFanToo Only solution is Rick Barry style. But no coach ever insists on that.
Really, no joka?
@Texas-Hawk-10 The thugs out "protesting" -- you know, burning, looting, assaulting -- in Baltimore isn't the NFL watching/ticket holding demographic. Someone who breaks a business's window to steal a microwave isn't buying a ticket. Now, they might rob someone of their Ravens' jacket, or swipe their NFL hat. There's a fan for you. But they aren't buying anything (relatively speaking).
As a note, I'm sitting in my Johnson County home, devoid of constant police patrols -- oddly, because (cause and effect) we're not shooting, killing, robbing, and assaulting one another. A fact Kaepernick and those of his ilk purposefully ignore.
@approxinfinity Not a bad point about having me on the hook .. I looked today and two of their top three links are the solidarity of women refs after something with Lavar Ball and another Kaepernick reference, because the Ravens signed a third string quarterback.
Here's a link for consideration. Many more where that came from.
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-moves-left-wing-so-ceo-can-run-for-president-032917/ ↗
@mayjay Clark Hunt said he wouldn't hesitate to sign Kaepernick. If he did, I would be done with the Chiefs until he was gone. Further, last season, I simply didn't watch the NFL when I otherwise would have when the 49ers were on. Kaepernick is the type of person -- anti-American -- that inspires that reaction. Some might like watching him, or not care.
@mayjay Catastrophic insurance is a great idea. In fact, school districts could take out policy that covers all of its athletes. It would of course be a secondary policy that covers costs above what primary insurance would, thus not as expensive. It would be a big budget cost, though.Personally, I think it would be worth it.
Simply having insurance doesn't substantially change the risk assessment for parents. My youngest is a senior and heading into his last season of high school football. He loves it, learns from it, and it is a part of his life. But I hold me breath on every tackle he makes, and every play he's involved in. Varsity high school football is a man's game.
@Texas-Hawk-10 It is absolutely absurd to compare head trauma in a football game to a soccer game. Nearly every football play, multiple players are creating contact with their head. A common tackling/blocking technique, to avoid use of the top of the helmet, is to lead with the facemask. Keep the head up. Still, multiple aggressive contacts with the head on every football play.
That said, there are clearly links to CTE and soccer. It's just a matter of degree, and football is a far more violent game.
@approxinfinity It obvious that the ESPN has a leftist agenda. It was interesting how the poll result was buried. I only found because it was linked from another site. I can give you multiple liberal commentators on ESPN that offer social commentary, but how many offer a counter opinion? That's the MSM. Cursory attempts at balance. Sage Steele gets demoted, Michele Beadle promoted. Obvious.
@Texas-Hawk-10 There is much more contact to the head in a football game than soccer or hockey. It's not even close.
@BeddieKU23 @KUSTEVE Not only is that great, it's correct -
Go to ESPN.com. You'll see that the story is not on its front page, or on the front page of even the football section. Hmmm. Not shocking give the poll result thumps their communist loving hero.
@mayjay This is an interesting discussion. Don't you think that with football, there is really full disclosure now?
For example, we know you can suffer the most horrific injury -- full paralysis. That the game is inherently violent. That every limb and bone could be broken, every muscle torn, every ligament/tendon severed -- and that is foreseeable, correct? And further, it is expected, really. Now we know that a brain can be severely traumatized by repetitive blows so that you die early, or suffer significant loss of function. We know the brain is not safe.
Amazing that was not really considered for so long.
As you said, we all know we can't really protect the brain.
Do you suspect further "Unknown, Unknowns" are out there, to quote Donald Rumsfeld.
I guess there could be -- like damage to the organs or something. But is any of that worse that what we know? What could be worse?
We have folks quitting the game. Seems like it's to the point of real "buyer (player) beware."
Interesting topic.
I heard someone compare football now, to smoking in the 70s. Now that there is so much evidence, "no one smokes" he said. However, people do still smoke.
In my view, the more that there is evidence of CTE, etc., the more likely that the owners and league are protected. Just like with smoking -- the consumer (or participant) has knowledge. It is buyer beware. Who sues tobacco companies anymore? Everyone knows. The label says so. Folks proclaimed boxing was dead quite a while ago too, and it survives. And then we got a more violent version (MMA).
Now that doesn't mean participation in football won't drop. It already has. Youth leagues are way, way down. So the ripple effect may continue. But I don't see any high schools not able to field teams -- yet. So all of this is a very good point. Is it a matter of "when"?
Also, while it may seem good for CBB, remember, college sports lives off of football money, in large part. College sports would change significantly if CBB revenue was cut. While KU hoops is self sustaining, other programs that we would compete against aren't. But CBB would certainly take the center podium as you suggest of CFB died.
Heck, by 2030, the way our society is going in the gutter, MMA will transition to Roman Gladiator fights to the death. MMA is just a step above that. We have a lot to look forward to as our society continues its march backward down the path of incivility. Football is controlled violence. Moderate violence. When that goes, the extreme will take its place.
@JayHawkFanToo I definitely like the Lightfoot upside. If he is truly a competent 3rd big this season, that's a huge recruiting win there. Love the way he moves on the court. Lots of bounce.