I agree. I believe the more commonly accepted term is JK or /JK. By the way, emojis do not seem to be working since the move. Sad emoji here...
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
You have to remember that Snyder was the hand picked choice of the Kroenkes, big time MU donors, as we all know. After his stint at MU, he was in, shall we say atoning in purgatory, coaching the Austin Toros before taking jobs with the 76ers, Lakers, CSKA Moscow and Atlanta Hawks before taking over the Jazz; it took him a long time to get there. Coach Self has been successful every where he has coached right from the get go. Snyder's record at MU is 126-91 overall and 56–50 in conference; neither a record to brag about. In the NBA in two season his record is 38-44 (.463) and 40-42 (.488) or a combined 78-86 (.476), again, nothing to write home about...although better than Calipari's record in the NBA, although in all fairness, the squid was coaching New Jersey.
Ok, Now were are getting somewhere. I agree that coaches leave programs for better opportunities, Self looked at MU as a clear step up from Tulsa and then went to Illinois, again, a step up from Tulsa. He then chose to come to KU since K, was undoubtedly a step up up from Illinois. I am not sure if going from KU to UK or Duke is necessarily a step up as much as a lateral move.
You cite all of the advantages that Duke offers, but you have to remember that Duke, while a decent program before Coach K, it only became an elite program UNDER Coach K and it is possible that after he retires, a lot of those advantages go away; his relationship with Basketball USA has now ended and that early contact with elite recruits is now gone. Look at Roy Williams, regardless of how successful he is at UNC, he will never get the admiration and respect Dean Smith gets in the same way that no one at UK will measure up to Adolph Rupp; Pitino, arguably the best coach at UK and the one that could have come close to Rupp is now coaching at Louisville, mostly because of the choices he made, and will never be in the run.
Again, I personally believe that the Duke , UK and KU HC positions are roughly at the same level and go up and down depending on who the coaches are. Coach K has been very good and his record shows, Calipari has brought a whole lot of hype and press (good and bad) to UK but, as they say in Hollywood...there is no such thing as bad press...and Coach Self has been the consistently outstanding coach with the matching record, and he is one or two championship away from being the best of our generation. There is no assurances that when any of these coaches leave, the programs will maintain the same level; this also true for several other elite programs as the Coach Ks and Selfs don't come around that often.
Just my opinion.
You took my post out of context. I did not say that Wooden won because he had "West Coast Hype" I said "Except for the fist couple of years, UCLA won because it had overwhelmingly more talent than any other schools and, at that time,"
The fame and recruiting advantage of top talent came because of the fame and the presence of Sam Gilbert, who was the original World Wide Wes, and made it possible to get the better players, including black players, because of all the off the court benefits they got while John Wooden looked the other way. Without Sam Gilbert and all the players, black and white, he lured to UCLA, Jon Wooden does not win nearly as much.
That John Wooden won because he was given the go ahead and recruit black players is as myopic as the statement that UTEP in 1966 was the first team to win with mostly black players. This is completely incorrect. since most school (I am not saying all) were recruiting black players long before that. San Francisco won the Tournament in 1955 and 1956 with 4 black starters lead by Bill Russel and Casey Jones, Cincinnati won in 1962 with 4 blacks starters after the great Oscar Roberson had left, in 1963, Loyola did the same thing, however, lots of other teams with predominantly white players won the Tournament in between. Race was not the primary reason Wooden won, getting better players, regardless of color, is.
Phog Allen and Adolf Rupp, among others, were likely better coaches than Wooden but without the hype of the big name school and market and the talent Wooden accumulated, Phog Allen particularly is largely an unknown, except the KU faithful. We know that with today's parity, no school is ever again going to win as many titles as often as UCLA did back then; those days are gone. If instead of coming to KU, Bill Self had gone to UCLA and had the same success he has had at KU, he would be considered the best coach ever, wouldn't you agree?
OADs crave and need exposure. KU has considerably more exposure than OU.
Repeated thread? @Crimsonorblue22 already posted that picture...
I respectfully disagree, Capel is a below average coach and at the top level he has not done well. His record at OU (only top level HC job) is a pedestrian 83–69 (.546) overall and 33-43 (.434) in conference; he had to vacate 13 non-con wins and 4 conference wins in 2009-2010 due to the use of ineligible players. Even if you give him back the forfeited wins, he still has a losing conference record. In his last two season at OU, his conference record was 4-12 and 6-12 or a combined 10-24...not exactly the numbers of a good coach. After his stint at OU he was essentially un-hireable at the top level and had to settle for and assistant position at his Alma Mater, Duke, where he had been a star player. No way, no how, no ma'am Duke settles for Jeff Capel, Duke ties notwithstanding. Just my personal opinion.
Frans is a good analyst and he used to be pretty fair in his comments about KU. Everything changed when his kid decide to attend OU and he has been critical of KU ever since. The rumor was that his son James (5'-10" 150 lbs.) wanted to attend KU but there was zero interest and he ended up walking on at OU where he played a total of 41 minutes over 4 season...not exactly KU or even OU material; he would have done better at a smaller program like his brother who went to Harvard. Maybe now that he has been gone from OU for a year, Frank can get back to being more objective.
The Midwest, read KU, cannot match the hype of the East or Weat Coast. Everybody knows who John Wooden was because he did it at a big name school in a huge market. Except for the fist couple of years, UCLA won because it had overwhelmingly more talent than any other schools and, at that time, parity was non-existing and a dozen (or less) schools dominate college basketball. Now, there are realistically 20-30 programs every year that, with a few lucky breaks, have a realistic shot at the title. In this day and age, duplicating what Wooden did at UCLA can only be done at a school that get the press the East or West Coast schools do, When Coach Self Is done, the purists and knowledgeable fans will know where he stands among the game's greats...we Jayhawk fans already know, but the average Joe will not.
You did not address the issues I posed...
Hind sight is always 20-20. Remember Missouri passed on Bill Self and took metro-sexual Quin Snyder instead; talk about a boner
Florida much like Alabama and Texas and most Southern schools are primarily football schools and basketball is in many case is just a level up from an afterthought. Florida hit the perfect storm getting a quality but largely unproven coach (only 2 years of HC experience at Marshall) and a few great recruiting classes that resulted in two National; Championships, but Donovan saw the writing on the wall and figure that level of success was not sustainable at a football school and bolted for the NBA before the program crashed and burnt in the football crazy SEC.
I am not sure Florida could have attracted any coach it wanted any more than Texas could and had to settle for Shaka "not so" Smart, a coach that is a legend only in his own mind; I would not personally consider him to be a top tier coach. Both schools would be happy with a good program but I don't believe being a top basketball program is a priority at either school.
I am curious, what makes you think that Coach Self is biding his time until Tyler "graduates"? Do you know that Tyler already graduated from KU in May 2016 with a degree in Sports Management? He is now using his last year of eligibility to learn more about the game, hopefully get a Master's degree and eventually join the coaching staff wherever Bill Self is coaching; I believe his future is in coaching.
No question that KU, UK and Duke are the top 3 coaching jobs and to move to any of the other positions is at best a lateral move and not necessarily a promotion. Given his (and his family's) Mid-West roots, it is highly unlikely that Coach Self would leave KU for Duke and the East Coast; if he ever gets the itch to move, the most likely destination is the NBA and not another equal or lesser college coaching position. The one program that might be attractive to him is UCLA, with the LA/Hollywood glamour and the chance to bring the program back to its old glorydays and stand next to John Wooden ion the Pantheon of coaching Gods.
Wow, he seems trimmer than before and looks like all the fat is now muscle; his endurance should be much better.
I see progress but it will take time to get where we can win the close games. Right now, the fist units seem to do relatively well but the lack of depth means that by the time the second half comes along players are tired and the level of play drops quite a bit. KU has several players red shirting including transfers from Alabama that should be available and help next season.
Unlike a basketball team where 3 very good players or one good recruiting class can produce enough to forms a reasonably good team in a short term, a football team requires a much larger number of quality players not only starters but backup as well and KU just is not there yet. Realistically, it takes several years of recruiting quality players to get there; I am not talking 5 starts which KU will not get in the foreseeable future, but 3-4 star players and the occasional diamond in the rough 1-2 star player. Mangino did reasonably well with a group of overachiever and a couple of good recruiting classes but I am not sure if he would have stayed at KU he would have been able to maintain that level.
3 but change win 1 lose the rest.
Here is a link ↗with some information on KU players
From RotoWorld...
"Drew Gooden has reportedly received interest from the Knicks, Raptors, Lakers and Clippers.
Gooden could take on a mentorship role as a veteran presence with any one of the aforementioned clubs."
Really bad news about Perry and Wayne; hopefully they can stick it out for a while in the D League and another team picks them up. Does anyone know what is the status of Chalmers? His last contract was pretty decent so he is probably set financially; one would think that he still has a few yeas left in the tank.
The bulk of the Duke success has come under Coach K. While they did have several Final Four appearances,before Coach K, the overall record is not good; 3 of those appearance were in a 4 year period but in the period between 1955 and 1980 when Coach K took over, Duke made it to NCAA only 7 times in 25 years. During the 40 years Coach K has coached at Duke, it missed the NCAA only one time...big difference.
Coach K has deep connection with USA Basketball which in the last few years has given him and unfair advantage over other coaches recruiting wise as shown by his recruiting success over the last few years. The new coach at Duke likely will not have those connections and also, it will be difficult to come over and maintain the level of success that Coach K has enjoyed and many of the better coaches will probably choose not to take the chance of becoming the coach that ruined the program. Likewise, replacing Coach Self at KU will be a tall order; Brad Stevens would be my first choice.
Since you included UCLA because of all the titles, the natural assumption was that you were looking at the all-time top 12 programs and Wisconsin does not fit that criteria.
Here is one list of the top 75 ↗and Wisconsin comes in at 28. KU is #2 by the way.
Here is another top 20 l ↗ist and Wisconsin is not in it.
Here is another top 100 ↗ (seems to be 5 years old) but Wisconsin checks in at 99; great progress since then.
Wisconsin has been good in recent years and you might have a case if you look at programs, say in the last 16 years but then, UCLA likely would no be in, but if you are looking at all-time programs. Wisconsin is just not there. The more important question is, will Wisconsin with its perfect storm of players continue to be good after those classes and Bo Ryan (you know he is gone, right?) are gone or like Wichita State, slowly fade into oblivion?
Having said that, it is your League, your rules, you put whoever you want.
I know you are a Wisconsin fan, but there is no way it is one of the top 12 programs, likely not even top 20 and maybe, and that is a big maybe,,,it breaks into the top 25 but not any higher than that. In it own conference, Indiana's record runs circles around Wisconsin's.
Let's think about it. Duke became relevant after rat face got there; no major history before then. There is good chance that after Coach K leaves, Duke might go back to being irrelevant. This would explain why Duke is holding to Coach K for dear life, they [probably fear that once Coach K is gone, so is the program.
Best 3 (or 4) games against Texas.
January 2003 at AFH. Collison goes into beast mode with 24 point and 23 rebound before fouling out and drawing a standing ovation from Dick Vitale who said the only other time he did it was for one David "The Admiral" Robinson. KU wins 90-87; both teams make it to the Final Four.
March 2007 at AFH. Durant goes crazy and Texas build a 16 point lead with 3 minutes left in the first half. KU makes a come back for the ages and build a 10 point lead with 5 minutes in the game. The final result is closer at 90-86. One week later at the Ford Center Durant goes off again scoring 37 point and 10 rebounds and Texas takes a 19 point lead. KU comes back again and wins 88-84; not nearly the thriller one week earlier.
2007 Big 12 Tournament #1 KU beats #3 seed Texas with Durant 88-84, Durant is the Tournament MVP; Rush and Wright are in the All-Tournament team. KU sweep Texas and Durant who goes to the NBA never having beaten KU.
A little hyperbole? Dave Stallworth , Xavier McDaniel, Antoine Carr, Cleo Littleton, Warren Armstrong and Cliff Levingston among others would disagree.
Given the choice I would rather lose to the Cowboys than the Cowgirls. Why poke the bear...or cowboy, and provide additional bulletin board material that KU really does not need?
If it is #7, it shows as Kent on my browser...
The vast majority of thinking voters share your feeling about the candidates...and every Jayhawk fan is with you on Coach Self. The choice between the most corrupt candidate in my lifetime and the man who cannot remember he is a politician now and not a playboy is sickening. Like everybody else, I will hold my nose and vote for the lesser of the two evils.
Ha, ha. The NBA has changed quite a bit in the last few years; more defense is played and players are actually taking pride on playing solid defense. Salaries are still outrageously high and some of them make no sense whatsoever. Whether we like it or not, the NBA is still the Gold Standard for basketball.
Selden low salary is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, if everything between Selden and Harrison is pretty close and they need to get rid of one, likely the dump the one with the higher salary. Mario stayed with the Heat initially because of his low salary and once he proved his value he got a substantial raise.
You obviously do not follow the NBA. Batum is a solid player. If Andrew Harrison can make close to $1M then Selden is a bargain.
He is still listed as the starter, although if Joel progresses enough he might take over the potion, much like he did at KU.
Vote early, vote often or vote from the grave...a vote is a vote.
Okafor is listed as the starting Center for the 76ers. The twins are listed as starters.
In addition to the ga,es mentioned, the KU-UK game at AFH should be there. How about the KU trashing of UNC and then then beating Ohio State in the 2012 Final Four? Texas In the Big 12 Tournament?
Three KU player on the starting lineups of NBA teams...Wiggins, of course, and the Morris twiins.
Liberace's siren's song? LOL.
Bragg has potentially the most upside of any player at KU not named Josh Jackson. Having said that, he is still and unknown quantity that had not been tested but is in a unique situation to getting playing time with little competition.
Malik has one year to ponder why his career went south. By potential alone out of HS he should be in the NBA now, instead he is 2 years away. Hopefully he will listen to the coaching staff that knows a thing or two about the game, learn to play defense (if he want to get playing time) and apply himself to learn to play PG, which is where he would play in the NBA; Mario did it, he can too.
KSU got 3 votes? Every single poll has them as #9 or 10 in the Big 12...
I believe KU beats Duke but likely loses to UK at Rupp. UK will have huge chip on their shoulders and will be playing at home; arguably toughest game of the year for KU.
One would hope it never get to that point, but given the state of our society where what used to wrong is right and what used to be right is wrong...you never know.
I don't know. Ask Hillary how she gets all that good press when in all fairness, and if her last name was not Clinton, she would be in jail. LOL.
P. S. Sorry about the political joke, seemed appropriate though...
You cannot prepare for the Tournament other than becoming a better overall team. At the tournament you don't know how the team will be seeded, where you will play and more importantly, who you will play.
Like I said before, the tournament is all bout matchups and luck. There a lots of times when a high seed matches up better with a another high seed than it does with a lower seed.. A good example is Stanford, a much lower seed, which under normal conditions KU wins by double digits, but with Embiid out and all the bigs they had available presented a doomsday scenario for KU who had no inside answer,
I agree. If you read my post you will see that scheduling is a combination of Money and setting up to increase the RPI. Mobney drives the train and big programs need big money. Big name programs do not want to play on the road because, much like KU, they prefer to do it at home where ist is safer and considerably more profitable. The game with ave with e bigger progr5ams are a trade off alternating home and away, and also, the head to head with other Leagues (used to be the PAC 10 and now the SEC for the Big 12) allows, or maybe forces, bigger programs to play each other. Neutral court games, have a payout but it is probably half of what a home gate brings; exposure is the main benefit. Even games in KC athe Sprint Center are not nearly as profitable as home games but it is something KU does regularly for the large KU fan base in the KC area.
Again, Coach Self explained in detail (GIYF) how a good scheduler projects which teams are due to have good seasons, and by extension RPIs, well ahead of time and schedules accordingly while trying to keep as many games as possible at home (within limits) and scheduling games that will enhance KU's overall RPI. Coach Self indicated that KU's scheduler is the best in the business, since KU regularly ends up at or neat the top in SOS and with a great record to boot. Makes sense?
No doubt he is a great player...but he still is a punk.
I am not that much of a cynic. I believe that ten is the ideal number because it allows all teams to play each other once in football and twice in basketball (the two sports that really matter) and have a true champion. I guess this makes me old school???
The tournament is all bout matchups and luck. You have to have favorable matchups which are not necessarily reflected in the seeding. #10 Stanford was a bad match up for #2 KU, particularly since Embiid was out. You also have to have a lot of luck and the right combination wins. Based on how good the teams were, KU had no business winning it all in '88 any more than UConn did a couple of years ago or many other teams over the years. KU and UConn had the perfect storm of good matchups and a lot of luck and won the tournament. in '08, KU had a great team but needed Mario's miracle to win the game the same way that Villanova needed a highly unlikely. desperation shot at the end of the game to win the tournament in '16.
KU is positioning itself to improve its RPI so it can have a better seeding.. Better seeding = playing lower ranked teams...at least in theory. Having a better seed does not mean you are going to do well or poorly in the tournament, it simply means that you will be playing lower seeds early which roughly translates to weaker teams. Sometimes, the NCAA grossly under-seeds teams and a high seed ends up playing a stronger team than it should, such as #2 KU playing a grossly under-seeded #7 Wichita which should really have been no lower than #4 seed. S#&t happens
Well...Klingon was taken by DeMarre Carrol...
Mouthpiece?
Even going small it is really not that small since we still likely play two 6'-8' players and whoever plays center, either Bragg or Lucas at 6'-11"...that is pretty tall for many, many teams.