🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@mayjay

Righteous indignation? That is straight; out of Saul Alinsky Rules for Radicals.

You have taken my comments way out of context and accused me of saying something I did not to change the narrative. At no time I indicated that 35,000 members of the FBI are corrupt; I am sure most are dedicated and hard working agents. In fact, I have posted before that the rank and file has no say in the direction of the agency and policy comes from much higher up. There is zero doubt that based on what we have seen recently that there is a group at he higher levels of the agency with a very marked political bent that has used its position to advance an agenda...even some of my friends with ideologies completely different than mine acknowledge this much. If you don’t see it then you probably think J Edgar Hoover was an upstanding public employee with no agenda.

I guess in a few months we will find out who was correct...or maybe both of us will be wrong.

@mayjay

It has everything to do with my original post and why I don’t have a high level of confidence with the FBI or DOJ lawyers. I specifically quoted intent and the video backs what I said.

@mayjay

[This South Carolinian addresses the issue of intent I referred in my post](https://m. ↗

I don’t mean to interject politics in this thread and I am simply using it as an example of the current FBI situation.

Again, you don’t need to be a pavement or transportation engineer to know when a road or street is in bad condition; the teeth rattling or busted axle would be good indicators.

@jayballer73

KU will ha a lot of experience coming back plus a monster class. Dedrick has already played 2 years and has been at KU for an extra year so he is technically a senior and conference POY candidate. K.J. had a medical red shirt in his first year, played one year and has been at KU for another year so he will be a college senior. A good player is a good player regardless of conference.

You also forgot Charlie Moore who will be a college Junior with one year of good play in a major conference and another year in the KU program.

That is a lot of experience from the red shirt players alone. You also have returning players Garret, Lightfoot, De Sousa and Cunlife for sure, likely Udoka and potentially Vick and/or Newman and it is a very good returning core. Add Grimes, Dotson, McCormack and Agbaji and you have arguably the strongest team in Coach Self’s tenure at KU. It does not even include potential player Langford.

Next season might be the easiest conference title KU will get while this season might be the hardest. KU will be a legitimate national title contender. I would be extremely surprised if KU does not win the conference next season. I just don’t see it that KU will not have experience.

@KUSTEVE

It was more of a mention of the second current longest streak of 6 titles likely coming to an end. The next longest I believe is 4 which means the earliest KU’s streak could be broken is in 11 years (2030), asumming KU stops winning the conference (definitely not next year) and the other team continues winning; both highly unlikely.

@KUSTEVE

Xavier with one game lead over Villanova and 2 easier games to finish conference play. If Xavier wins over Providence and De Paul, it wins the conference ending Villanova’s streak of 6, currently second longest to KU.

Devonte channeled his inner BIFM and played himself into Conference POY.

My favorite Bilas quote...DNA of Champions!!! 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

...and all turned around with the win at ISU. :smile:

@mayjay

In other posts I believe I said for no illegal purposes or words to that effect, forgot on the previous one.

Now, it is pretty safe to assume that Mrs. Jackson was not hired to kill someone (Squeaky and the rest of the conference may claim Josh was) or the money was a bribe since she is not a public official but perhaps to influence her son, something that is not illegal...lobbyist are paid millions to influence lawmakers in behalf of clients all the time and they don’t end up being prosecuted as long as they don’t try to actually bribe public officials...right?

BTW, Mrs. Jackson seems credible and has denied receiving any money...and lying to the press, if that is the case, could be a character flaw but is not a crime either.

@mayjay

As to Josh’s mother, I think if she simply agreed to receive money, she would be analagous to an illegal drug buyer. We saw this occasionally in the Army criminal cases I had on appeal. One soldier (the dealer) would buy some drugs from an outside source (the pusher), often stupidly telling the supplier his desire to get enough to sell to other soldiers, and letting him know he wanted to have an ongoing retail operation. Then he would sell to other soldiers (end buyers) in small quantities.

Whoa there...that is one hell of a stretch and you are now comparing apples and oranges. Buying or selling drugs is still against the law (in most states), receiving money is not. Now if you receive money for services and do not declare it as income and don’t pay taxes, then that part, and not the receiving money part, can get you in trouble...as it did Al Capone. Gifts are different; the IRS allows you to give “gifts” annually up to certain amount ($14,000 for 2017) that is not even taxable. ↗

No wonder you think the FBI role in this case is not a stretch. :smile:

@mayjay

But the fact that you keep repeating it doesn’t make me forget that there are probably literally dozens of lawyers in the FBI and DOJ who have approved the multistate, multiuniversity investigation and have apparently concluded there are federal laws involved here.

Are you referring to the DOJ and FBI lawyers that in one of the more important investigations in recent memory and one that involved National Security, agreed to interview the target of the investigation not under oath, with no recording of the interview made and no notes kept? Those lawyers? The ones that concluded there was no violation of law because there was no intent BEFORE interviewing the target of the investigation? Those lawyers? Show me the statute that says a law is not broken if there is no intent and try telling that to the judge next time you get a speeding ticket. You will excuse me if I don’t have much faith on those lawyers.

Now, you don’t have to be an engineer to know when a road is bad, do you? You don’t have to be a plumber or carpenter or flooring person to remodel you bathroom like you posted you did right? Likewise, any businessman has to have some business law knowledge to stay in business.

In engineering, my field, sometimes when there are large project going out to bid you will be contacted by the larger firms to team up with them, if your area of expertise is a an asset to the proposal and often you will be given a “retainer” if you agree to team up only with them, part of which is not refundable if the team is not awarded the contract and the rest is refundable or applied to actual work done. How is this different than an agent giving a player money, some of which wil be repaid and some the player will keep, with the proviso he does not deal with any other agent?

I understand you are/were a JAG lawyer and as such you acted either as prosecutor or a defense attorney for individuals assigned to you and perhaps did not deal with corporate/civilian paying clients. I will also guess that as an attorney you never had to hire one. When you talk to an attorney and you tell me what you need, the first thing he will tell you is...I need a retainer check for $xxx if you want me to do the work. Hire a contractor do to a remodeling job and he will ask for a down payment...how are these any different than an agent paying a “retainer” and or down payment? I concede that it breaks all kinds of NCAA and amateurism rules but does it break any laws? If a third party suffer financial loss the the recourse is civil court since only the state can bring criminal charges and civil court is where monetary or other loss cases end up.

P.S. BTW, I did sleep at the Holiday Inn Express. :smiley:

@Kcmatt7

Every coach in the Country with an available scholarship...or without one, would have taken Preston in a NewYork minute; he is playing in Eastern Europe because of potential violations, which are yet to be determined, and not because lack of talent. As I posted, there were zero red flags on Preston other than academic. When Arizona has to vacate all the wins when Ayton played, it will look like a blessing in disguise.

How about this scenario. Agent goes to his boss and says...I just met with Mrs. Jackson and gave her $2,600 in cash, of course there is no record of our meeting or the payment because the NCAA frowns on that so, here is my expense report and the master spreadsheet has been updated. All the while Mrs. Jackson has been at home, never met the agent and has no idea who he is. Has the spreadsheet not been made public none is the wiser. Maybe what has been uncovered is a gigantic agency in-house scam

@Kcmatt7

Taking a McDonald All American top prospects does not strike me as having an air of desperation. I am sure glad KU did not take Ayton considering what is being reported.

@drgnslayr

I respectfully disagree. Prospects, athletes, programs can break every single NCAA rule and none of that implies that a law is broken. The NCAA is an organization schools join voluntarily and agree to follow rules and regulations with applicable sanctions when said rules are broken. If financial harm is incurred the recourse is via civil and not criminal court.

It is the equivalent of belonging to a home owner’s association that has set of rules for your subdivision like what color your house can be painted. Say, you paint your house a color not approved, the HOA can tell you to repaint your house and if necessary take action in civil court. Unless a city or local zoning ordinance has been violated, the city or local government would not get involved.

There is no law barring someone or a business freely giving money for no reason at all or for legal future considerations. As long as the receiving party declares the income and pays taxes, if applicable, then there is no violation of law.

@BShark

I was under the impression that Preston's problems were more academic and he had cleared them at his last HS. Once he was cleared by the NCAA there was no reason to think there was anything else. Had Coach Self thought there were other issues he would have not pursued him...that is my take.

@drgnslayr

It does not take a long winded essay to indicate what Doke needs to improve as I posted before. First improve rebounding since he is below where he should be; he needs to know how to position himself defensibly and offensively. Develop a mid-range shot, increase endurance and improve his FT form. That was10 second of you life you are not getting back. :smile:

@drgnslayr

Giving money away or paying for future services, in business we call it a retainer, is not and has never been a crime. it becomes a crime if income above a threshold is not declared and taxes are not paid...that is how the got Capone. Other than that is a civil and a not a criminal matter. It might break all kinds of NCAA rules but not necessarily laws.

@truehawk93

It is Pat Forde drawing the inferences, what can you expect?

@KUSTEVE

Good point. :smile:

@Kcmatt7

Apparently Alexander did not get money or mom spent it very quickly and had to go get loan after Cliff was already playing at KU. :smiley:

@Kcmatt7

Didn't the Chief picked cornerback Kendall Fuller from the Redskins with the Alex Smith Trade? He is supposed to be one of the better CBs in the League.

@Kcmatt7

There is public pressure building. It is possible that the NBA could be sued and forced to give up the OAD as it amounts to restriction of trade. If they claim players are not ready for the NBA after HS. there is ample precedent to counter that argument and the court would tell them...if you don't think a players is ready for your team, then don't select him.

I can see lots of big changes in college basketball as a result of this investigation and we might be seeing the last of the NCAA and college basketball as we know it.

@Kcmatt7

I am all for doing way with the OAD rule. I am in favor that if a college is going to spend a ton of money on a player, it should have some assurances he will stick around for at least 3 years.

Also, if colleges are the victims, it should be a civil and not a criminal matter.

There is a plausible explanation. Testing gets better every day and now it can detect quantities that it could not have dreamed just a few years back.

Remember when DNA testing was started? It was not nearly as reliable and required decent sized samples and its accuracy was just better than blood tests. Now, it can take extremely small samples and provide great results with extreme accuracy and reliability. Night an day.

Perhaps the testing method last used on Trier detects trace amounts the previous techniques could not.

One thing is apparent, at least on these payments. They do not appear to have been done with the intention of swaying prospects to specific programs but to specific agents/agencies instead, after their college careers are over.

@Kcmatt7

In that case why even pretend it is a college team? Let’s just call it what it would be, a school sponsored professional team.

@wissox

Every player or team that does it feels they earned it.

@approxinfinity

You have to limit the number in order to have double elimination.

Has a team ranked lower than 32 ever won the tournament?

Several ways of doing it.

• 64 teams - Have first round at campuses and the winners move to the actual tournament.
• 48 teams - Top 16 get a bye, bottom 32 have a play in game.
• 80 teams - Top 16 get a bye, bottom 64 have a 2 game play in.

Can you imagine a 3 game KU - UK or KU - Duke finals series?

@BShark

Except colleges are not or should not be places where athletes go to sell their wares to the highest bidder. Colleges are and should be places where individuals go to get an education first and foremost. Like I said, I am old fashioned this way.

@mayjay

We are talking about piddly amounts of money. Yes, the multimillion operations operate that way but we are talking about low 4 figure payments here.

A couple of interesting items. Did anyone notice the headers on the spreadsheet are in what I would call Spanglish or a combination of English and Spanish and one of the headers indicates “Cambios de los Accountants” which in correct Spanish would be “Cambios de los Contadores” and “Presentado en Espana” or “Presented in Spain”? This typically happens when someone in a Spanish speaking country uses software written in a English. Could this be loans originated in Spain for players playing in Europe?

More importantly, if schools were not aware of these monies changing hands, can they be held legally responsible/liable? Seems like an extreme reach to me.

Now, the NCAA is a different beast and it can directly benefit from fines it can issue to big programs for whom a few million would not be much of a hardship. I see a big ammnesty coming to programs that were not blatantly involved. If this does not happen, I can see a s enario where the 5 big conferences leave the NCAA and start a new and more college friendly sports association.

Maybe this is what it takes to spur the NBA to ditch the OAD and adopt the baseball model.

Paying students that already receive free tuition, room and board and access to the best coaches, trainers and facilities and national exposure, for academic performance is silly. It would grossly discriminate against the rest of students that not only don’t get these benefits but have to pay for the privilege and patiently wait until graduation to collect the benefits of the education. I guess this makes me old school...:smile:

@wissox

You wrote:

”along the way Xavier shushes the crowd.”

So did Mason at Bramledge, just sayin’...

@wissox

!0_1519358398305_16D5BFB1-DFF1-42D5-97C3-7AAD4D28BA3C.jpeg ↗

CRH107 said:

On an entirely unrelated KU matter, why in heavens name would it be necessary for an Olympian "curler" to dope? Strange times. Hudy has produced some amazing specimens over the years and I guess I am just relieved that KU has avoided enhancement speculation.

Because you have to be high to play that sport?:smile:

Just kidding. I am sure curlers are upstanding individuals that just love the sport.

@HighEliteMajor

I am not going to take sides other than to say that calling it murder is a huge stretch as it implies premeditation that I don't believe was present in this case. Perhaps involuntary manslaughter, but...Outrageous Police Murder? I think not.

As I understand there were two mediators that were on the way and the police office in question was on its way to notify the family when the situation developed rather quickly. There is no evidence to date that the first couple of bullets killed him and that the reverse U-turn happened by happenstance after he was dead. One could convincingly argue that it was on purpose and the second salvo is what actually put an end to the event. We really do not know what happened with any degree of certainty and we don't know either how threatened the officer felt. The DA attorney obviously believes the officer acted properly. Officers involved in what is referred as "suicide by cop" often suffer from PTSD for a long time afterwards through no fault of their own..

I know several police officer including one that not too long ago quit her position with the Blue Springs Police Department. The stress of the job is overwhelming and the last thing police officers want to do is discharge their weapons; it is a very traumatic situation particularly when someone is injured or killed. I know TV shows tend to romanticize the job but in real life it is nothing like it.

You should request to do a ride along with your local police Department on a weekend night and you will get a new appreciation for what police officers have to put up. I have said many time before that the last job I would want to have is that of Police Officer.

@kjayhawks

Amen to that. We could be like Uconn with 3 recent National Titles and fading into irrelevance. ↗

No conference team has swept KU while Coach Self has been coach. I don't expect this will change.

nuleafjhawk said:

@BShark Sometimes it's just fun to CUT somebody.......

This is what my homies in the hood keep telling me...:smile:

@HighEliteMajor

The NCAA tournament is indeed in many ways a crap shoot. It is all about momentum, favorable match ups and a lot of luck; of course you have to have talents as well. College basketball is the only major sport not called football that is single elimination. If starting with the Sweet 16 or even the Elite 8 switches to double elimination, KU probably does not win in '88 but likely wins 2 or 3 others when it had great teams that had one bad game.

I am all for reducing the tournament to the true top 32 teams and going double elimination the whole way.

@HighEliteMajor

No problem. I sometimes have to remind myself to go to the next page since Firefox display only 50 post per page.

Nice to see we agree on something. We have enough oversight with the NCAA already; one would think the FBI has more important things to do, like follow up on threats of school mass shootings.

@BeddieKU23

I would love to see Xavier win the conference over Villanova. Villanova has the longest streak of tiles after KU with 6 and losing would put them back at square one...and 15 or more years away from breaking the streak...assuming KU does not continue to win titles.

@BShark

MU is doing better now (tied for 3rd with 5 other teams but no hope for title) but it will start declining and after year 3 Cuonzo Martin will bolt right on schedule.

@Kubie

Frank's experience and steady leadership is a huge plus until Fox develop into what they hope he will. Frank might end up being a permanent starter...which would surprise none of us.

@BShark

...and that is the reason why it is "former"...:smile:

@justanotherfan

There is more to keeping a player than just the on-field performance. Football is a business and Peters has been bad for business.

BeddieKU23 said:

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 I haven't heard of anything changing here, but AZ is AZ so obviously the history is there. I'll keep my ear to the ground on this. I've been to a few of his games this year.

Yeah we'll see how this plays out. JRE is good friends with Jontay Porter who's godfather is Romar (Zona assistant).

Would MU be involved then?

The media guide is the bible for all KU basketball related information. :smile:

@mayjay @HighEliteMajor

I can see both point both I would have to agree more with @mayjay .

Comparing a Final Four with the World Series is not the same since in the World Series you are playing for the title while in the Final Four, you may or may not play for the title depending on the result of the first game. If you lose the first game the appearance is pretty forgettable and few remember. It might be more comparable to the Division title and who remember the losers other than a few fans?

As far as records that transcend time go, some are remembered more than others by some or all fans. Only very dedicated fans other than UCLA's fans remember how many titles UCLA won other than there were several while back. A lot of fans remember their 13 year title streak and most everybody knows about the 88 game winning streak that started and ended with loses to Notre Dame...even those that were too young to live it.

If KU wins title #14, it will be record remember by all basketball fans since it will likely never be broken and it was done in an era with a heck of a lot more parity than when UCLA won 13. I bet it will be chosen as the sports event of the year by all publications. Keep in mind that the Big 12 was the #1 ranked conference for the last 5 years and other years before as well. I don't care what the ACC, SEC or other conference fans and apologists say, the numbers compiled by objective computer models don't play favorites.

Years from now, we will all marvel at the consistent excellence of the program under Coach Self and what a pleasure was to have been witnesses to the entire process.

@SkinnyKansasDude

The streak at UCLA was accomplished under 3 different coaches so Wooden does not have that record; Coach Self already owns that one and Mark Few is second with 11.