🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Last year's team absolutely took on Lagerald Vick's personality. Think about all of the complaints about Vick while he was at KU, then think about the complaints with last year's team. They match up almost perfectly and why I was hesitant about wanting him back last season. Had there been other senior leadership on that team last year, I don't think it would've been an issue because Vick never wanted to be a leader. Since Vick was the only senior, he was put into that role against his will basically and it reflected on the team as the season went on and faced some adversity which Vick had never handled well.

Leadership will also be the biggest question mark for this team as well. Is Doke capable of filling that role? Will Garrett or Dotson step up into that role? Can Isaiah Miss come in and take that role? The answer to the leadership question will play a much more significant factor in determining what KU does in March and hopefully April than any other question mark this team has.

There's only been 3 Cali kids play under Self at KU. Omar Wilkes was Self's first year, but really a Roy recruit and later transferred. Lindsay who transferred, and Billy Preston who never played a meaningful minute for KU.

I'm assuming the last impact player KU had from Cali was Drew Gooden and before him Paul Pierce.

Last Cali kid that played in a regular season game for KU was Merv Lindsay.

BShark said:

@BeddieKU23 Eh, never know.

KU just offered: https://247sports.com/Player/Dawson-Garcia-46050093/ ↗

Surprised Duke isn't involved considering the success they've had with Minnesota kids recently.

@jayballer73 Two years ago is why I'm not getting overly excited yet. I'm glad Miles is getting a lot of commits early, but do those players stay committed when better programs start offering because it's going to happen. Do these commits stay committed when KU doesn't have a great W-L record this season? I'll get excited in December and February when these players sign their LOI's.

We've seen this show before as recently as two years ago. Miles has to close the deal on these kids before I get to excited about.

@drgnslayr UK has had better teams than that one that didn't win the title because they were much more freshman dominant. The sophomores were a bigger difference than AD on that 2012 team.

@drgnslayr AD was by far the best player that year, but UK wasn't a OAD dominant team. That team was carried by the sophomores and UK doesn't win that title without those guys like Lamb and Jones.

@jayballer73 I didn't say it was a bad class, but class rankings are deceptive because the total number of recruits plays a big factor. Miles has said this class will be smallish because they don't have the available spots due to blue shirts and other circumstances. The class rankings is high now, but it will drop because Miles is approaching the number of recruits he can sign. Don't get hung up of KU being in the 30's because this class likely ends up in 50's when all is said and done in February.

That doesn't mean it's a bad class because this class likely ends up with an average of 2.8-2.9 stars per player which isn't bad for KU and the more important number in football recruiting to determine the quality of the class.

Just don't get hung up on being in the 30's because it won't last. Don't forget that two years ago, around this same time of year, David Beauty had KU in the top 5 in recruiting classes.

Recruiting rankings are not going to be a good way to judge this class because Miles is approaching the number of commits he can take this season already. Total number of recruits plays a big factor in the rankings so with a small class, expect that ranking to start dropping once the commits slow way down because Miles is close to the number he can take for 2020.

@drgnslayr 2012 Kentucky wasn't OAD dominant like other Calipari teams were. There were only 3 of them and it was the sophomores that helped lift UK past KU.

@HighEliteMajor Here's my issue with switching on the perimeter. KU allowed opponents to make 33.6% from three last year. Final Four teams like Virginia, Tech, and MSU were all under 30% so over the course of a game, that's 1 or 2 more there's on average. Switching and guarding the line means sacrificing interior defense. There absolutely is a trade off for everything and that's the trade off for guarding the line better is the interior defense. Being a poor interior defense bothers me a lot more than poor perimeter defense does.

The reason being that teams shoot much better the closer they get to the rim obviously. The other reasons why are like I said, teams would exploit that philosophy to get a big on a much quicker player which leads to either and easy lay up, easy lay up and foul, or slow rotation for an open 3.

My opinion probably comes from coaching middle school basketball where most kids can't even make 10% from outside, but a lot think they're Steph Curry and will shoot when open.

I will probably always be of the opinion of guarding inside as the top priority because those shots are such a higher percentage than outside that if I have to sacrifice something, I'll risk getting burned from deep than getting burned from the paint.

In regards to defense, it's not possible to defend everything without sacrifice. Self has made his bed and has chosen to defend the paint and the 2 point shot.

The problem with switching everything is that opponents will create match ups where Doke is brought out to the perimeter and switched onto a guard. Doke isn't quick enough to guard out there and our guards aren't strong enough to defend a big in the screen/pick and roll. This means opponents would have a lot of easy baskets at the rim or KU would be in massive foul trouble.

That's what happens when you switch everything. With the 3 point line moving back, there will be a big reduction in the number of 3's attempted just like last time the line was moved back and a drop in the 3 point % as well. Self's current strategy on defense will be just fine next year and we'll all be praising him for adjusting when the reality is that the adjustment came from the NCAA itself in moving the line back.

@kjayhawks Vick was never going to be drafted. He only had one skill and he was a streaky at best shooter. Nothing about Vick's game said was NBA level.

@kjayhawks 2009, ESPN closed their live broadcast with that nugget.

@Marco Europe or G-League after a summer league stint that he doesn't catch on with anyone because he isn't athletic enough for the NBA.

bskeet said:

Our defense has lacked shot-blockers the last year or two. I could see that changing next year. And shot-blocking could be a determining factor in rotation of the front-court. Silvio and Doke have a bit more experience in this dept, but Dave's size suggests he should be able to be a factor. It's a skill in which instincts and timing can be an equalizer to athleticism.

Shot blocking itself isn't essential. The ability to alter shots is more important to me and this roster is more than capable of altering many shots at the rim. Blocks will happen eventually, but I'm much more concerned about changing shots than blocking shots.

Blocked shots at the college level frequently go out of bounds and the other team usually retains possession. Altering shots usually lead to rebound opportunities and change of possession.

Lawson not getting drafted is probably better for him honestly. His agent can find the situation that would give Lawson the best chance at making a roster instead of being locked into a situation that isn't guaranteed to be a great fit for him.

@approxinfinity Wilson has some skills, but it will take time to develop those skills. All 4 freshmen are minimum 3 year players, likely 4 year guys. The one with the best chance to develop and leave early is Tristan Enaruna. I would say Enaruna is the 3rd best NBA prospect on this roster right now behind Ochai and Silvio and just ahear of McCormack.

If Enaruna can become a true wing at his size, he then becomes a potential lottery pick in 2022 or 2023. The ideal line up for KU in 2021-22 is McBride at point, Enaruna and Wilson as interchangeable pieces at the 3 and 4 spots, Braun as the 6th man, and 2020 recruits at the combo and post spots.

I like Braun and think we'll have fond memories him when he's done at KU, I just don't see a high ceiling with him and if Braun's starting by then, I think that means Self had some big whiffs in both the 2020 and 2021 classes at the combo guard spot. If Braun starts then because someone developed ahead of schedule, I can live with that.

@FarmerJayhawk It's not really about Dave starting over Silvio because that's not likely to happen. It's more about whether or not Dave could back up Silvio. If Mitch redshirts, a back up 4 is the one potential weakness on this roster. Jalen Wilson's athleticism is a big issue because he's in the Brannen Greene, Quinton Grimes range of athleticism.

@KUSTEVE That was a misunderstanding on my end. Wilson compares pretty closely to Brannen Greene as others have said. Difference being Wilson has an inch or 2 on Greene and isn't stuck as perimeter guy.

@BShark I suppose the other question with Dave at the 4 is does he have the quickness and agility to guard 4's out on the perimeter?

@Kcmatt7 With the Moss signing, I don't think Garrett starts now. That doesn't mean I see a reduction in minutes for Garrett, I think he plays at least 25 mpg next season. But his versatility in being able to sub for and guard the 1-4 spots gives him more flexibility off the bench to start games.

Marcus needs to guarding the opponents best perimeter player and Dotson needs to guarding their worst to conserve his energy as much as possible because Dotson will be playing 35+ mpg without a quality bench player behind him. If McBride isn't ready yet (very real possibility), Marcus Garrett is the back up PG.

@drgnslayr KU will have 7 players at or near 25+ minutes per game next season.

The question with Dave's minutes and his ability to play alongside Doke will be if he has the range to be the high in the high-low. If not and his range is still primarily inside of 10', that limits Dave's minutes to strictly backing up Doke instead of some minutes next to him.

@KUSTEVE When or where did I say Jalen was a 3? He might get spot minutes there this season because of fouls, but 90%+ of his minutes this year will be at the 4. Jalen Wilson will be the biggest defensive liability on the team next season.

Wilson is the guy I can see the Charlie Moore/KJ Lawson discussion happening with in regards to why is he playing if he isn't making shots.

@dylans Mitch's PT issue isn't the freshmen, it's the Sr. and Jr. already on the roster that are his barrier to minutes. If Mitch redshirts, he should get good minutes in 2020 and probably start at the 4.

@Marco Marcus Garrett will average over 25 minutes per game this year and none of the freshmen are better than him.

@BShark 2011 appears to be the exception, but even then KU dealt with Selby's suspension and injury, Releford was hurt, and only 4 players played in every game so even that year seems like Self was forced to expand his rotation at times due to players not being available for whatever reasons.

2015 was a freshmen heavy class that never really gelled and I think a tighter rotation probably would've helped that year. This year's roster has very little in common with that roster group as far a age goes.

@KirkIsMyHinrich You're using a hypothetical to prove a point?

Here's what YouTube does, it allows you to see the skill levels of players. How are their handles, footwork, shooting form, physicality, stuff like that. The red flags were there with Grimes from the beginning and I was never on his bandwagon because I'd seen him in person in HS multiple times. There were times he didn't even look like the best athlete on his team, he didn't make teammates better, he didn't blow by opponents.

Self has been here long enough that his tendencies aren't secrets. When he has experienced players like he will this season, freshmen tend to have very short lashes. Self doesn't have to go beyond 7 deep this season and KU would be just fine. Those freshmen are going to have to earn every minute they play because none of them are better than a player in front of them except for possibly Wilson over Lightfoot, but even then Lightfoot has a big experience edge over Wilson. McBride is not better than Dotson, Wilson is not better than Agbaji, Garrett, or Moss, Enaruna isn't better than Mitch today, and Braun is the worst scholarship player on the roster.

@BShark Self went deeper last year because of the Doke, Vick, and Garrett situations. Injuries forced Self to play more people more minutes than normal. Self didn't willingly play 11 players 10+ mpg last season. Circumstances beyond his control forced that. I'd also be willing to bet that going back and looking at individual game box scores will show Self still mostly played 8 players, just that the 8th player was different on a game to game basis depending on match ups and who was hot on a given night.

For me, rotation level minutes are 10+ per game. Without Doke's injury, Agbaji never plays, without Vick, KJ doesn't play the minutes he does at the end of the year to get to rotation level minutes. Garrett's injury forced Moore to play more as well which bumped his minutes.

Self didn't play Moore and KJ the minutes he did willingly, he did so out of necessity due to injury and discipline issues.

We'll see a deeper rotation in November and December because Self is figuring out combinations, but that rotation will be at 7-8 players by the time B12 play starts.

@KirkIsMyHinrich There's this thing called YouTube where you can watch videos of players. Knowing Self's history in regards to freshmen and rotation depth also are guiding my thoughts on this.

Of the 4 freshmen, Jalen Wilson is the most college ready today, but not an NBA level prospect. KU's current roster composition also says that most of Wilson's minutes will come at the 4 this year as a stretch 4. Foul issues or injury is when Wilson will play the wing because he doesn't have the handles to be a perimeter player right now, even a wing.

Tristan Enaruna is the best NBA prospect, but like Svi, he needs a lot of refining to get to that point. He'll be a very good player, it just won't happen until year 2 or 3 at KU.

Isaac McBride has the Mason and Graham diamond in the rough potential, but he's not an immediate impact player and likely won't be a polished player until years 3 and 4 (if he becomes polished). There's a reason McBride is a 3 star player and with a different roster composition, he would see minimal meaningful minutes this season.

Christian Braun is a local kid that hopefully turns into a Brady Morningstar level of impact, but don't depend on that though.

KU's 2019 recruiting class is a developmental class that doesn't have an obvious superstar player in it. These are all players that currently have major flaws in their game that will keep them at KU for at least 3 seasons.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Jalen won't spend much time at the 3 next year because that's not the need next season. His minutes will come spelling DeSousa for the most part.

@KirkIsMyHinrich Self will not expand his rotation deep enough to have Enaruna play big minutes this season.

Even with the deepest rosters Self has had, he's never willingly gone beyond 8 deep. Why is this year going to be any different? I can realistically see Self using a 7 man rotation this year if Wilson's game isn't B12 ready. Garrett can sub 1-4, so if Wilson isn't good to go, Self will have no issues playing Garrett as a universal sub.

@KUSTEVE Only if Mitch redshirts. If Mitch doesn't redshirt, I think McBride plays the most among the freshmen and that'll just be a few minutes here and there to give Dotson a breather. If Wilson isn't ready to play, expect Garrett to be the universal sub and play spot minutes at the 4.

Isaiah Moss is the one newcomer who should play big minutes. I don't see it with the rest of them this season.

@BShark, @Marco also believes all 4 freshman will play 10+ mpg next year.

I think it's a good development group and Tristan Enaruna looks like an elite level prospect later on, but Jalen Wilson is the only freshman who might play big minutes and that's largely dependent on Mitch redshirting, and even then Wilson may not play 10+ mpg with the depth KU has.

Best part of Gary's win was hearing the Rock Chalk chant as Gary was walking up the 18th fairway.

@wissox When Brooks tied it at -11, that's when I really thought he was going to win it.

My heart wanted Gary to win, my head said Brooks was going to win given each man's reputation in majors. Glad my heart won and Brooks is human in majors.

Helluva putt to win it!

@Marco Self's rotation is typically 7-8 deep, not 6 deep. Self is also not going to change his defensive philosophy, especially when ymwhat you think should be the strategy does not fit the strengths of this roster. Out of those 4 freshman, Wilson is the only one who appears like he could play some good minutes this year. McBride likely will out of necessity of not playing Dotson 40 minutes per game. Don't be shocked though to see Dotson average 36-37 mpg if McBride isn't up to par.

When B12 play starts, Self will have an 8 man rotation like he prefers, he's not going to suddenly change who he is or what he does because his way has won 82% of the games, 14 B12 titles, 3 Final Fours, and a national title. Self won't change his stripes.

@Marco So Bill Self going to change his philosophy? Self has never gone beyond an 8 man rotation unless injuries forced him into it.

This isn't a roster built to play pressure defense. This a grind it out, beat teams up type of roster. Dotson is the only player with elite speed and quickness. This is a roster that is built to set back and jump passing lanes because there are multiple shot blockers behind the back court.

This will be an 8 man rotation once conference play starts, may 8.5 men based on match ups. We've already seen in the scrimmage that the freshmen didn't do much in that game and that's indicative of what will happen when the season starts. Don't be shocked if Self only plays 8 or 9 against Duke to open the season.

@Marco You seriously think all 4 freshman play big minutes next year? There will be one, maybe 2, that will play 10+ mpg when the season is over.

Self has never gone beyond an 8 man rotation barring injury issues. Isaiah Moss may very well be the only newcomer who plays more than 10 mpg next season.

Agbaji, Dotson, Garrett, Moss and maybe McBride get 10+ mpg next year in the backcourt. Braun and Wilson will not get rotation level minutes once Self cuts the rotation unless Self goes 9 deep which he's never done voluntarily.

The front court is just stacked and there's no chance barring an injury Self plays a 4 guard line up. Neither Jalen Wilson nor Tristan Enaruna will play a meaningful minute at the 4 spot next season. Enaruna is going to be 5th in the big man rotation next season unless Mitch redshirts.

2019 is one of the weakest recruiting classes in a long time. Braun and McBride would be 3 star players in 2020 and Jalen Wilson would be ranked somewhere around 75 in that class. Enaruna would be a 60ish recruit in 2020.

These 4 freshman Self signed are development players that should not play big minutes this year. These are all 3-4 year players that when meshed with hopefully some 2-3 year players in the 2020 class will produce a title.

The way KU is constructed right now is a national title contender and the freshmen may not be a very big factor in the rotation next season.

@HighEliteMajor That honestly wouldn't shock me too much.

BShark said:

@Marco I think Braun can get about 10 minutes a game next year. Do think he will be pretty good as a JR/SR.

You think Braun can crack the top 8 in the rotation?

Self has historically gone with an 8 man rotation. Last season and '14-15 are the only two recent years Self has gone deeper and those were by far his youngest teams.

I don't see Braun cracking the rotation and I can even see Jalen Wilson not cracking the rotation when Self tightens it up for B12 play.

Dotson, Moss, Garrett, and Agbaji will all see good minutes in the back court. Doke, Silvio, and McCormack will see good minutes in the front court. Tge question becomes who gets that 8th spot in the rotation, the freshman Wilson or the senior Lightfoot?

I think we all know that answer based on what Self has shown that he values in the past and that's experience.

Christian Braun is probably 11th or 12th in the rotation and that spot doesn't get big minutes once Self trims the rotation.

This isn't me saying Braun can't play, but we also have to look at who's ahead of him in the rotation and all signs right now point to Braun being the 11th or 12th man in the rotation and that equals minimal minutes this season for him.

@jayballer73 In Self's offense, the 2 and the 3 serve the same function. If KU lands Moss and Wilson, you will see those two along with Agbaji and Garrett subbed for interchangeably until the rotation is set. Dotson and McBride are the only two back court players who have set positions as lead guards, everyone else is off ball and in Self's offense, that means they are interchangeable.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5 mean very little in today's game. A 1 is about the only position that you don't see a lot of interchangeability with. Doke is a rarity in being a true 5 as the rest of KU's big are variations of 4's. McCormack and Silvio are traditional 4's at this point unless Silvio has expanded his range, Mitch is an undersized 4, and Tristan is a stretch 4 in college and wing in the NBA, similar to the role Josh Jackson played at KU. Even between college and NBA, you see a lot of people play different positions like what Tristan will be doing here

@KUSTEVE That box score is a crappy example for the point you're trying to make. The two highest turnover totals were from Vick, a wing, and D. Lawson, a post player. Dotson was third in turnovers that game. The guy who best fits the description as the a 2-3 combo is Garrett who had one turnover.

Also, breaking pressure and running a half court set are not the same and Self does tend to use a second ball handler against teams that pressure a lot when he has that roster flexibility. Marcus Garrett is that flexibility because he is an above average ball handler because he was a PG in HS and I still believe is the best PG on this team.

@jayballer73 If Moss and Wilson come, KU has a back court of Dotson, Garrett, Agabji, McBride, and Braun along with those two.

Self historically plays a 7-8 man rotation, and Wilson would be the 5th or 6th guard in that rotation. It doesn't mean he's a bad player, just means there would be better options ahead of him. In Self's system, the 2 and the 3 are interchangeable on offense so it doesn't matter if Wilson is a two or a three, he's an off ball guard and would be behind Agbaji, Garrett, and Moss in that possible line up.

That equals minimal minutes once Self trimmed the rotation to 7 or 8 players.

Wilson is barely a top 50 recruit, those players don't have a great history of being impact players immediately and sometimes not even an immediate rotation player. If Moss comes to KU, Wilson is likely 5th in the back court rotation and probably a non factor in the rotation unless Self goes 9 deep which I don't recall him ever doing with consistency.

Toronto had their own injury issues to deal with this season as well. Kawhi missed basically all of last season and missed 21 games this year, Kyle Lowry missed 16 games due to injury. The Raptors had their own significant injury issues. The difference between them and GS right now is the timing of those injuries.

@approxinfinity That doesn't change that teams catch lucky breaks because of those situations. Toronto is catching a huge break by not having to deal with KD or a 100% Thompson and Iguadala. Not every team takes advantage of those situations. Houston couldn't take advantage of winning at home in Game 6 without KD and Portland couldn't take advantage either.

Toronto is catching a lucky break in this series. They are also taking full advantage of that lucky break to this point in the series.