@wissoxfan83 Agreed.
Wigs2
127 posts
@JayHawkFanToo Part of the problem with this team all year has been the inability to get motivated. If they can get to WSU, maybe that will motivate them. If not, they don't deserve to be there in the first place.
Maybe there is one advantage to being hearing impaired. I always have the sound muted and follow Jesse's chat.
I'm Bill Self and I wish (or hope) that I can get rid of Snacks at the end of the season and hire HEM."
(Just kidding HEM.). :-)
I liked the Big 8 Holiday tournament better.
@KJD I don't think HEM, Jesse Newell, or anyone else is saying Self is not a good--or even great--coach. But, unless you think that Traylor, Lucas, Alexander (?), and Mickelson can perform adequately for four straight games, there's no way the Hawks make it to the FF. Unless they play outside in, i think they'll have to be lucky to make it past the second round.
I heard Kevin Kietzman say yesterday that he knows this kid and is a friend of his daughter. Said he is a very nice kid and he would be very proud of his daughter if she were to bring him home with her sometime and tell her dad that she had become engaged to him.
Just thought it was interesting.
@REHawk Seems to me we lost this one by allowing so many offensive rebounds. I thought Traylor looked lost most of the night. If he's the best we have to offer, I would be surprised if we survive the first weekend of the regional. Will be interested to see HEM's analysis. Maybe he can put this in perspective.
@HighEliteMajor I think the probability of winning a NC this year is extremely small anyway. A loss to anyone this year really isn't much of a surprise. But if Traylor and Lucas continue to get as many minutes as they have recently, it would be surprising if they get past the first weekend.
Lucas had 26 minutes tonight. 0 pts. 2 ast. 4 pf. I don't think Svi could have done much worse. And at least it would be experience for someone who might be helpful in the future.
@HighEliteMajor Do you feel that Selden still has a viable shot at making it to the L? What about Ellis? Traylor? When Selden first got here, I thought he was almost a can't miss. Same with Ellis. And Traylor maybe in pro ball somewhere. But it seems that they have been regressing. If so, is it Self's fault?
@HighEliteMajor Not saying there's anything broken. Just saying that I think games are not as exciting when the scoring is low. I always thought Self was a better coach than Roy, but always liked watching Roy's teams more than Self's.
I would like to see the shot clock reduced to 30 seconds and see if that would help. The extra 5 seconds may give the defense to much time to set up.
I think the NBA several years ago was toying with the idea of reducing the shoot clock to 18 seconds.
@colojhawk I'm not the analyst so many on this site are, but I have been wondering for quite some time why scoring in cbb seems to be trending down. There have been several times that rated teams have scored fewer than 20 at the half.
If i remember correctly, when Self first came to KU, the Hawks averaged scoring in the 80s. Roy's teams were consistently in the 80s. This year, it's just over 70.
Although, it probably results in more upsets, it seems to me that it makes for a more boring game to watch.
@wissoxfan83 What can the NCAA do to stop it? Salary cap?
@Statmachine. www2.kusports.com
@HighEliteMajor I'm not registered at kusports.com but I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your comments regarding the t-shirts last night.
Just like during the Ferguson riots, people and the media have been totally oblivious to the fact that the police were there because of a burglary committed by Michael Brown. If they hadn't responded, they would have and should have been condemned. They were placed in a no-win situation by the thugs of that city.
All this political correctness is nauseating
@Kong It seems that your opinion is that the only non-cons we oughta be playing every year is Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Ohio State, Arizona, UCLA, Mich St., Florida. Not gonna happen.
Agree with HEM, it's totally emotional.
@Kong i think as many people across the nation would have as much interest in a KU-WSU matchup in any year as they would in watching KU-Rider, KU-Towson, KU-Kent St., or a number of other teams that have come in over the years.
As I recall, Xavier Henry and both of the Morris twins signed to play with Memphis when Cal was there. After Cal left and went to Kentucky, they came to Kansas. I've always wondered if anyone ever bothered to ask them what attracted them to play for Cal at a less prestigious school that didn't play as much top-notch competition and was not on national television as often as KU, UK, UNC, UCLA, etc.
I really have my doubts he's cheating, but he's doing something right.
@BeddieKU23 Like you--and most everyone else on this board--I liked CF and hated to see him go. However, I don't agree with your remarks that he should stick out the year or play till semester's end. And, if you think it through, I'm not too sure you would either.
First, the time and effort he puts into practice, both emotionally and physically, is time that he could use to find another school, as well as to prepare mentally to think for the first time "I'm not a Jayhawk."
Second, would you really want a player to be playing for you who knows that he is not going to be a part of the team for the entire year? A player who in this case is playing for the Jayhawks but is thinking about playing at WSU (or any other school)?
Third, if you were a coach for a school that he might be interested in, is it possible that you would wonder why he is still playing for KU if he wants to leave?
I hate to see him go but I really don't want to see someone who doesn't give his full effort physically and emotionally.
Just my opinion.
@drgnslayr "Here is something to think about...
If Wilt did sleep with that many women, even if he used a condom, he would definitely have some accidents and he'd have a minimum of 20 or so kids out there... probably a lot more.
Surely some of those women were tall, too.
Wouldn't there be an increase of footers in college now playing ball?"
It runs in my mind that I heard a story many years ago--maybe from Max Falkenstein--that neither of Wilt's parents was tall.
According to. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0150219/bio ↗ neither was taller than 5'9".
Probably my favorite player of all time. Always had the impression that he never wanted to be considered a special person and wasn't enamored with all the hoopla about him. Wish I could have come to that game in 1998.
@DoubleDD One more scenario and I'll let this subject go.
Mitchell Ballock, from Eudora, in a couple years could be one of the top high school basketball players in the country.
Coming from a small town, many locals will start to build him up as a future D1 basketball star--maybe even future NBA star. Many kids from around town will idolize him. Local merchants will sell jerseys with his number and name on it. Go to Eudora basketball games, and hundreds will be wearing that jersey with "KU" or "Duke" emblazoned across the front of it. Merchants are making thousands of dollars selling these shirts.
His name and number are being used--possibly without his permission.
Should he be entitled to any of the profits off the sale of those shirts?
P.S. This same scenario happened in Ottawa two years ago with Semi Ojeleye, now at Duke.
@DoubleDD I have not suggested that money be tossed around to just any player who wants it. Nor have I suggested that all schools participate in a program.
The reason I have brought up Selby is that he is the KU player that I think has been hurt most by leaving the program early. And I don't think he would have left if he had felt he had a viable alternative. I would have mentioned McLemore also if he had not been drafted. Embiid's case doesn't apply.
At the time I first mentioned the concept, we were speaking specifically in reference to OAD's. And only those elite, upper-crust players who have financial hardship. The ones who could go to the NBA right out of high school were it not for the rule that requires they be 19 to play in the NBA.
The elite players don't go to schools like UMKC. Almost all go to elite basketball programs like KU, UK, Duke, UNC, UCLA. Those programs are not operating in the red.
Another alternative would be to allow them to bypass college and participate in the NBADL but not in the league till they turn 19.
@DoubleDD "If a family was poor raising a future NBA star (so rare), then why couldn't they live in poverty for a few more years so their son can not only hit the NBA lottery but have an education to go with it?"
I've never had to live in poverty, and I doubt many on this board have. That comment about living in poverty "for a few more years" is an example of how so many who have never had to live in poverty feel about the underprivileged.
If any system like this were to be implemented, it would have to be based on financial hardship. Again, I am not suggesting that schools just start doling out huge sums of money. But I think if there was a serious concern by college administrators and coaches, they could make it happen.
And I do think that a player such as Selby would have returned for a second season if given the opportunity to prove that he belonged in the NBA. Unfortunately, leaving after his freshman season probably cost him millions that he will never recover.
@JayHawkFanToo Agreed that the revenues are not generated by the players alone. However all those revenues you mentioned would not happen without the players--especially the elite players. And I'm not saying to pay them all several million a year. But I see no problem with the school loaning them money till they get to the NBA.
But if Josh Selby had been able to have been able to help his family while he was in college, he almost certainly would have returned to KU for at least one more year. Then he could have paid that money back when he got to the NBA. Unfortunately, he most likely felt the need to go for the instant money rather than wait to develop into an NBA-caliber player.
@HighEliteMajor For most of the NCAA institutions, your point is probably more accurate than it is at KU and other elite basketball schools. But most schools don't have anyone thinking about OAD--e.g. UMKC. Hardly any have someone who would--or could--decide to play overseas instead of playing college ball.
We're talking about upper-crust, elite players--not those that even a school like K-State is normally recruiting. Those players who are almost sure-fire NBA talent.
Assuming that there are 13 full-paid scholarship players each year, the amount of money you're talking about is at most $400K. Considering attendance, television and radio, apparel sales, etc., how long does it take KU or Kentucky or Duke to make that amount of money? Ten minutes into the first game?
I say there should be some way to provide additional financial assistance beyond the scholarship to get them away from the OAD mentality.
@HighEliteMajor What is the risk for the NCAA? And, out of all those schools that have taken so much risk, can you name any that have lost anything by taking that risk?
@HighEliteMajor Is that a realistic possibility? Are overseas teams seeking to sign American high school players? I've heard of it being mentioned to go overseas right out of high school, but I'm not aware of any who have done it. And--judging by what I've read about Svi--if they want to play in the NBA, it might be detrimental to their long-term future if they decide to play overseas first.
And although you say that the players "get value far exceeding minimum wage," I 'm not convinced that's a good argument since they are in school to play basketball--not learn business or psychology. I think that all too often, they are being used to make big profits for the schools and the NCAA.
Other students who are on scholarship don't have the same restrictions and demands that athletes do. I'm from the old school, but I think it's time to start allowing some financial assistance.
Our culture is so different than it was 40, or even 20, years ago. One of the problems is that so many of these kids come from single-parent homes. Many of them have come from homes that have been in poverty their whole lives. It's understandable why a Selby or McLemore would want--or need--to start earning money ASAP.
One thing that could alleviate the OAD issue would be for the players to be paid a decent stipend for playing D1 basketball. At the very least let them borrow money at low interest. They generate millions of dollars of revenue but don't get enough to help their family back home.
I don't think either Selby or McLemore would have been an OAD If Ifnances had not been a factor they had to consider.
I never considered the 1988 team to be great. A great player or two, but not a great team. A team that won because the higher seeds kept getting upset. Lost 11 games (most ever by an NCAA champ), had an-almost home game for the NC. Played NC game against a Billy Tubbs-coached team.
It was a mistake not to take Louisville even if it would have been considering them only for their football. They have been better than several in the Big 12. And it would be easier to add one more team to get the conference back to legitimacy.
I agree with you that it was a major blunder to not take Louisville. Maybe even instead of West Virginia if they didn't want both of them. It would have improved the Big 12 in both football and basketball.
Years ago--pre-1985 for sure (and maybe earlier)--I might have agreed with your premise that a team had to reach the FF in order to be considered "great." But I don't think that's true now. I don't think one upset--although it's what we remember--defines a whole season.
It used to be that a team had to win their conference championship to get in the tournament. Now a team can get there--and potentially win the whole thing--even though they may finish at or near the bottom of their conference standings. These conference tournaments have changed everything.
I think KU had a great team in 1996-97; Missouri was great in 2011-12.
Even before 1985, K-State had a great team in 1962 but didn't win the Big 8 championship. On the other hand, in 1965, Wichita State was great until Dave Stallworth left at the semester. They were good after that and got to the FF. But you sure wouldn't consider that tournament team to be great.
I agree with HEM for the most part that conference championships aren't very important. What I suppose I disagree with is that the big one--the NC--is the all or nothing. I am extremely satisfied if KU gets to the FF. At the FF, it's too often a crapshoot and the best team doesn't necessarily win.
I also think the conference tournaments have cheapened the regular season championship. Back when UCLA won 13 championships, you either won the conference championship or you went home. These days with 5-7 teams from several conferences going to the NCAA tournament, the regular season doesn't mean so much.
I wish those conference tournaments would be eliminated.
@HighEliteMajor I would just like to know the names and Rivals rankings of the players you would have been recruiting from the class of 2014. And if anyone of those particular players opted to go somewhere else--like Karviar Shepherd did in 2013--who would you have gone after next? You have consistently promoted your theory that OADs are not good for Self's system. I'm not saying you're wrong, just would like some specifics.
I would just like the names of those you would have gone after and those you would recruit if the one you really wanted didn't come to KU. Also, how low in the rankings would you go to get the type of player you really need?
@wissoxfan83 And from the 60's, there was Bill Bridges, Wayne Hightower, Walt Wesley, and Jo Jo White. All phenomenal players. Other than the NCAA championship games, one of my favorite games was when KU outlasted Kansas State in four overtimes in the 1962 Big Eight Holiday tournament at Municipal Auditorium in KC. Another was the 1974 regional championship overtime game against Oral Roberts. ORU was really good after just three years in D1. Another was in the 1988 regional championship game. At the beginning of the game, I didn't think KU would beat the Wildcats, and was surprised they won. And it seems that Missouri and KU had lots of good games in the 90s.
@JayHawkFanToo "The situation at UNC is hard to figure out. While KU had and still has volunteer monitors that verify that every single athlete makes it to class, I don't believe the same is true at UNC, or at least I have not read anything about it."
It could be that I'm naive about situations like this, but I would really like to know where you would read about which schools have--and which schools do not have--volunteer monitors. Or is KU the only school in the country that has the monitor program?
Also, I don't necessarily agree with your statement "Where there is smoke there tends to be fire." I've seen cases where there has been billowing clouds--and even char--where there has been no fire at all.
It's easy to make assumptions. I'd suggest until you have more evidence to not make any comments.
@JayhawkRock78 Yep. It was Bud. Not spellcheck though. Just off the top of my head. Dave was considerably earlier and better, but for Wichita St.
@wissoxfan83 You could have listed several others. Bill Bridges, Wayne Hightower, Walt Wesley, Dave Robisch, George Unseld, Dave Stallworth. Those are off the top of ny head.
@Crimsonorblue22 I don't know anything about Selby's mom or other members of the family. Not everyone can pick up and move across country. If they were counting on Josh having a decent income in a year, or if there are younger siblings, moving to Kansas for a few monthsmay not have been feasible. I'm still pulling for him.
I think it is disgusting that players will make remarks like these 10 years after the fact. If this is all true, McCants knew it was wrong at the time. I get tired of these prima donna players receiving benefits--academic or financial--making remarks years later, knowing they have nothing to lose, although it could cost someone else his/her career.
@icthawkfan316 I agree with you that Selby was an NBA-type player and that if he would have come back for a second season, he would probably be in the NBA right now. However, when a person is in poverty, there is not really an option to wait another year. I hope that someday the NCAA will allow some of these kids to borrow money against their future earnings in order that their families can survive. Both Selby and McLemore--and I'm sure many more across the country--would have stayed longer.
@JayhawkRock78 Yeah, I remember that those players you named were from the mid 70s. I guess I didn't realize that you were so young. You've got a long time to go yet.
Another one from around that time was Steve Grogan. I think Grogan, Owen, and Jaynes all graduated the same year--maybe 1974. I doubt that Kansas has ever had that much QB talent in the same year.
@JayhawkRock78 You left out a few guys who played in the NFL that you may have never heard. Lynn Dickey. Tom Owen. Bobby Douglas. Barry Sanders. John Hadl. But I think they all were just backups. Or maybe they just made the taxi squads. I'm getting too old to remember.
One of the problems with this whole thread has been assuming the examples given are normal individuals. The players on the 353UrbanVoice were selfish, sick, and stupid, with no self-control. One had 8 kids by 8 different women. There were also problems with gambling, drugs, alcoholism, greed, and a need to impress others. Those are not traits that a college education is going to correct. They are not normal people in any way. Sadly, it is reflecting our society more and more.
@drgnslayr When I said "basic," I meant very basic--not investments. I meant taking a certain percentage of income off the top and putting it in a bank or other financial institution. Kids who have never had a job or who have lived at or near the poverty level think an investment is putting back money for next week's meals or saving enough for the apartment rent. It's unlikely they think--or care--about having enough money to last for a lifetime.
One thing the NBA could do is to allow all the under-19 players to go to the developmental league if they don't want to go to college. During that time they not only would receive basketball training, they could be taught basic courses in finance and other subjects. The only viable option now is to go to college.
Raising the age limit to 20 to go to the NBA will only make the problem worse for some.
@drgnslayr you have made some good points. However, you seem to assume that college is for everyone. If true, I disagree with that premise. There are many kids with learning difficulties that should not go to college.
I have a friend whose daughter is a 2014 college grad. She had learning difficulties all through school. But she had a physician father and pharmacist mother who spent countless hours helping her. Many--probably most--of the kids being recruited for D1 basketball don't have that kind of support. There are probably many who don't know who their father is.
One other comment. It seems that most of the commenters on this board think that Josh Selby has been a total bust. I think that for the most part, he has gotten a bum rap. Most people--including me--have no concept of what life is like for these kids who have lived in poverty and filthy apartment buildings their whole life.
Besides, according to http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXsXXselbyjo01.html&t=15 ↗ Selby made more than $1.3 million by the time he was.23 years old. I wouldn't call that chump change. I'm glad no one wrote me off at age 23.
One thing I think the NCAA should do today is to allow players who feel they have a better opportunity elsewhere to transfer to a different D1 school without sitting out a year.
A basketball career generally has a limited window of opportunity and NCAA policy is too restrictive. AW3 should be able to play wherever he thinks is best for him beginning this fall. He is losing potential earning power by having to sit for a year.
I don't understand the point of this thread. To discourage someone from making $1 million+ per year while he/she can is ludicrous. Just because "60% of all draft picks lose everything they earned," is no reason for someone else to follow in that same trend. To do well in life, you have to be willing to do what most won't.
Without seeing the amounts lost and the reasons for the losses, how anyone can make that conclusion is beyond me. Did they make bad investments or did they blow money--like Derrick Thomas, Jack Carter, or Mike Tyson?
The 60% number referred to probably included many who simply had a bad lifestyle. Many--and maybe most--of those would not be any different after four years of college. Lifestyles should have been developing many years before the kid came to college.
One of the best--or worst--examples I can think of is Naadir Tharpe. Having a child before he got out of high school was the result of a bad lifestyle. That severely limited his choices for the rest of his life. Could also have destroyed or limited the possibility to make decent income playing basketball overseas.
I'm with ict on this one.