🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@drgnslayr Good pointing out ralster's comment. As much as I harp on Selden, there is no doubt that his teammates love him. I just never thought of him leading by example. It seems like he's finally, finally starting to do that consistently over the course of multiple games. I loved that play he created in the post for Mickelson. The old Wayne would have never done that. I love the fast break he had a few games ago where he slowed down just enough to get control and make the right decision. Everyone who plays FIFA for the first time loves the turbo button because it makes you go fast, but you lose the ball to the defense every time. HERKY JERKY. It's IMPORTANT to be unpredictable. I think for the past 3 years, I've witnessed Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden make the same moves over and over again expecting the same positive result. Finally, it seems like they have changed their games to be more reactive and situational. What does this have to do with Greene?

Well, the first notable Greene had this season was a guy literally dribbling right by him to score on one of the wings. It was like seeing him Freshman year all over again. But aside from this, Greene has improved in almost every area. He's got a little herky jerky in him. So what's the problem?

Well, it's the leadership question. Why does everyone on the team love Wayne Selden? It's something Greene must ask himself, but maybe we can help him here. 1) Selden rarely talks about his "ability" or how scoring is "what he does". Greene has said this kind of stuff in interviews, and it's like watching Josh Selby all over again. 2) Wayne Selden wants all of his teammates to succeed. Greene evidently believes he needs to voice that he should play over others (publicly?) Selden is always at the center of celebrations on the sidelines. It's because he's genuinely happy. You can feel it.

Love and cohesiveness are too important to the team. More important than another three point shooter. I think it's time for Greene to take a hard look at himself and what he's trying to prove. If you're trying to enter the NBA as a marginal player, you need to have those intangibles, those leadership skills that they look for, and here is where Greene could learn a thing or two from Wayne. Because the pros pay very close attention to this stuff. Do you make the team better or worse with your presence?

So Kentucky was injured? Or did they just not have any energy?

So you think this was an underhanded gut punch to Traylor, or was it an inside joke among teammates?

I have no doubt that Traylor's minutes will be reduced. But I'm also of the opinion that Perry's will also be reduced. Blasphemy, I know.

@ZIG

I totally agree that this was the most intriguing lineup:

Mason-Graham-Vick-Bragg-Diallo

They even replaced one of Graham and Mason with Svi.

1. This is our most athletic lineup.
2. We can balance Vick's lack of offense with Svi. But we also have Bragg and Diallo, also offensive improvements over our the usual 4 and 5 combination.
3. Our bigs will no longer be blocked into oblivion
4. This is very close to our best defensive lineup

I agree that it's time to see what we have here.

Can we put this debate to rest now? Do you see why Diallo is the easy choice over Davis?

Diallo over Davis always. We should be able to get guys like Davis every year.

Diallo is a special talent though, and I think people will see why pretty soon. They will ease him in, but he will still be an obvious contributor right from the very beginning, IMO.

Like I've said before, this will have a HUGE impact on KU. Take a look at his game tape from the McDonald's game. This guy is effortlessly fast.

@Bosthawk Good points in here. The only real questionable move was not playing Mickelson. Otherwise, Traylor has by far the best defensive feet and energy on the current playing roster.

Also, people are underestimating the impact that Diallo will have when/if he gets cleared to play. Look at the footage from the McDonald's game. Not only does he beat everyone down the floor, he seems to do it with ease. People are calling it a high "motor" or whatever, but that's not exactly it in the traditional sense. He just always plays that quickly, and it's within his capability. I'd say it's athleticism combined with cardiovascular prowess.

@drgnslayr
Golden State won it because they were stacked.

Defensive Player of the Year candidate plus one of the best living defensive wing players. They were a two-way team. They also have a best-in-league point guard who is pretty darn good at dishing and penetration.

Golden State won because they were freakin stacked guys.

My biggest issue with Greene is his that he does not follow and react to people's hips and just lets guards dribble right by him. That said, I still prefer him to Wayne Selden because he gives us rebounding and a more reliable trey. Now, maybe Wayne has more "leadership" qualities like being a nice guy, but given the lack of progression by both players, I would rather see Greene on the floor more than Wayne. Put Greene, Vick and Graham as the 3 guards, and I think you have an excellent rotation option as Vick and Greene can balance each other on both ends of the floor.

As far as Self goes, I'm really worried. Last year, I was impressed with how much we bounced back during the regular season, and I attribute that to Self. But we may actually get worse this season without Diallo, despite Ellis looking much quicker. (People are underestimating the impact that Oubre had on this team as a two way threat.)

I disagree with Jessie Newell on the 3 point shooting aspect. The real issue is the apparent lack of freedom with which we play when confronted with something new. We pass around the perimeter on defense and drive right into charges or blocks on offense. The threat of the pass, steal or block are minimal. We look boring and unable to improvise.

I specifically disagree with you, jaybate, on the Selden versus Graham point for the last game.

I also disagree with the guys on 610 sports regarding the overreaction of some fans. The overreaction is explainable in that we've seen this before. It's the same as last season with no rim protection and no offensive development or creativity. It's like watching the Chiefs throw screen passes over and over and over again. With the exception of the Trent Green era, we'd been throwing screen passes in most years going back to the Montana era.

Some of us, like me, are beginning to wonder if at least SOME of it is the coaching. After all, there's very little jerky jerky or creativity. Everyone's just going through the motions thinking that this will work, just like in practice. This is why Wayne and Perry always get stuffed. Ever watch our guards pass it around the perimeter? Like there's absolutely no threat to shoot or dribble. We telegraph everything we do and it makes you wonder if they feel the pressure from the coach to execute the play at all costs regardless of the situation.

@DCHawker
Wonderful post. You explain the sick feeling that many Kansas fans have now. Why is their no development. How can can Michigan State's post player develop a brand new post move over a summer when our bigs have been stagnant over that past couple of years. Why has Wayne Selden not developed over multiple years at KU. He dribbles the same, drives to the basket the same as when he first arrived here. And so on.

The thing that bothers me the most is really the poor defense. Even for a short interior team, we do not defend well. Look at a team like Wichita State or even Michigan State. They manage to challenge shots that we do not.

We needed Vick last night, in my opinion. What's most disconcerting to me are two things.

One is how inflexible our players seem to be. Perry cannot dish and goes up for shots blindly at times. Wayne had a two-on-one situation late in the game and got his shot blocked (rather than dish to the driving Traylor) because he was boring and predictable in his movements. Watch the replay. He's easily readable. Wayne has always been like this. He will do things that he think will work without adjusting to the situation. (Heck, many of our players follow this template). Against an effective defense, we wilt. We don't have the ingenuity to improvise. Our guards will normally pick up the slack, but they played poorly last night.

The second thing that concerns me is the persistent lack of defense. This is why early in the season I thought Vick would be a key piece. A rim protector would be great, but why can't we defend the way the Spartans do? It's a serious problem and one that I think that is again rooted in player deficiencies in awareness and desire.

I don't care about Hunter not playing or the lack of threes. The bottom line is that in order to beat a team like Kentucky, we needed to be able to win yesterday without those things. It's a lesson to the players.

Honestly, I think we should have won with any of our bigs in. That's the point. If we are to win in March are bigs and wings will have to play better, period. They're a small lineup, so we don't need Hunter. We don't NEED to win this game. This was about getting our guys accustomed to competition that they should beat without needing a traditional big.

If we can't beat Michigan St. without Hunter/Bragg, can we really beat teams like Duke and Kentucky?

Most of all, I'm disappointed in our wing play. We simply cannot rely on Wayne Selden, and I'm thinking it might be time to move him down on the depth chart. We need somebody ANYBODY to develop on the wing.

@Texas-Hawk-10 We also need rim protection and a big that can REALLY run the floor.

@Bwag Offensive production isn't everything. It's about overall effectiveness.

Wayne Selden played 27 minutes had 12 points, but made 25% of his shots and had only 1 rebound. His counterpart Valentine had 12 rebounds. Traylor played 19 minutes and was fairly efficient except for some fouls. I don't get it. Yes, we could have played Mickelson over Traylor, but we also could have played Mickelson over Lucas, who had 2 points in 14 minutes in 1 of 5 shooting. All of those misses should have been makes, by the way.

@HawksWin
I think one of the things we have learned is that D1 has far better ball handling than WUG. This is why Selden could succeed abroad but looks like a different player here. It's the competition. It's why he always tries to drive to the basket in the same way.

Other observations:
-Landen Lucas missed at least 3 point blank shots.
-Frank Mason looked super duper tired. Are we preparing him for injury?

Jamari came out at halftime and immediately drew fouls on them in consecutive plays. Traylor was not the problem this game.

The real problems were the 3 and 5 positions as usual. Selden simply hasn't developed. His ball skills are exactly the same as when he came in.

The Spartans have established a blueprint on how to beat us, in my opinion. Helps that Valentine had a career night and Mason looked injured/tired. It's a loss; we move on. And yes, we need Diallo badly.

Traylor was NOT the problem in this game. Frank and Devonte had poor games, and the wing position was dreadful as usual. Valentine is everything we wish Selden would have been.

@HighEliteMajor I could see Greene excelling at a stagnant three position with a Hunter/Diallo, Bragg,Greene,Graham,Mason lineup.

So many people who can move in that lineup.

@HighEliteMajor Vick may end up replacing no one, but he will still end up being one of our best perimeter defenders to spell Mason/Graham when we don't absolutely need two A+ ball handlers on the floor. I also think he'll have a huge effect on practice, just like Diallo. He may not see the floor during the tournament, but he will contribute meaningfully to the team.

Bragg would work really well as a 3/4 combo. Wonder what lineups we could incorporate with him. He might be the best replacement for Perry because he's quite adept at dribbling.

A Diallo/Hunter, Bragg/Ellis, Selden/Svi, Graham/Vick, Mason lineup could do some interesting things.

I'm pretty darned excited about the new team components. Vick and Bragg are going to being instant-impact players. People are very much sleeping on those two. Even if nobody else improves from last year, the team is in excellent shape for a run.

Ugh. Debating about whether to renew my cable package. Some questionable calls all night, particularly with the Winslow tip that completely shifted the momentum of the game.

I will never say that Duke didn't earn it, but it will stay in my memory as a tainted tournament this year. There were some really atrociously-called games in this year's tourney, and it really sours the final product. Furthermore, the benefits of using my time this poorly (for enjoying sports) are diminishing in a critical period of my life (early fatherhood).

Sometimes, you just have to smile and walk away.

When Lucas says "it starts from the top down," I wonder who he's referring to exactly. Is he referring to the team leaders?

Who would that be? The upperclassmen + Selden?

The point is that the money is guaranteed anyway. However, a big counterpoint is that by playing a few years less, they would be missing out on total potential earnings.

On the other hand, despite everyone (including my own) grumbling about Self and Co.'s handling of injured players, they are still treated much, much more delicately than they are in the NBA. 80+ games plus constant travel wears on a body and mind. Developing both before the league is the better way for long-term fulfillment.

@cragarhawk All of these guys seem to be pretty decent defensively. They may not start right away, but they'll all be in the rotation in March. The dribbling skills from many of these players is impressive. Glad that we snagged Bragg. He will make a great impact at the 3 and 4 positions. Maker is the key though. And yes, I think Maker should stay in college for a few years. He's one of those players that will always be a lottery pick no matter what. If he doesn't fill out, I could see him playing a Durant-like role in the NBA. Might as well take your time to develop if the disadvantages of leaving are small. People underestimate what a college program gives you. Yes, I think that they should be paid, but Thon Maker will get paid eventually without question. At KU, he'd have the chance to make some friends for life while having enough time and space to learn and develop his mind. Speaking of which... he needs to improve his eligibility. So developing his mind should be his main focus for the next 2-4 years regardless.

P.S. - I'm actually of the opinion that Oubre might be able to stay with minimal consequences as well. He's 6'7"/6'8", but he has freakish wingspan. Honestly, I think he may come close to Wiggins as a prospect. No he doesn't have the jumping ability that Wiggins has, but he may develop into a better player. He's great at stealing the ball and is fairly crafty. Yes, his dribbling needs work, but he's a lefty, which is promising for his potential to be more ambidextrous.

I hope we get Thon Maker, even if he does have eligibility issues. He will give us what Embiid didn't get a chance to give us, assuming he makes it to the tourney. And by the way, I still believe it was a mistake for Embiid to leave early. 7' savants are lottery picks WHENEVER they decide to go, EVEN if they are injured. There are time-sensitive advantages to staying in college and maturing emotionally and physically before committing yourself to the NBA grind, which by the way, is a BORING life.

We are ok for two of our starting guards, but we need good backups. Newman and Brown would make fine additions to our backcourt and would get plenty of playing time. Assuming Oubre is gone, a Mason/Graham, Newman/Brown backcourt with Svi, Bragg and Greene fighting for time at the three. I could see Bragg and Greene spending quite some time at the 4 as well. Perry, Jamari and Landon should all be fighting for their spot with the likes of Bragg, Diallo and (if the stars align) Thon Maker. We should be recruiting over all of our players. No free passes. Selden, Jamari, Landen and Hunter should see minimal time unless they drastically improve. For all of those folks who are anti-OAD, it has everything to do with basketball skills. Would you rather have a 3/4 year player that does not develop year-over-year or a younger player that ALREADY HAS those skills. If some of the worst passers on your team are 3rd year players, that's an indication that it's time to bring in some serious competition at the same position.

@Crimsonorblue22 Funny. I saw that play, thinking Oubre just doesn't have his head right for this. Of course, neither did Traylor, Ellis, or Selden. We needed someone to show up aside from Mason and Graham, and nobody did.

@truehawk93 By reload, do you mean get Thon Maker? I could enjoy that.

Why did Mickelson not play? Could it be they had him scouted as a foul machine?

Maybe we can get some open shots if our guards not named Graham or Mason learned to dribble. Or maybe our bigs can learn to pass a little better to achieve the same effect.

Biggest frustration:

Players are not developing enough. Our bigs, Wayne, Greene (although he's much better this year).

I will be very interested to see who improves the most next year. My guess is it will be between Graham and Greene.

When you have poor ball skills, people can scout you and go hard at your tendencies. I think that's what happened today with players like Oubre, Traylor, Ellis, Lucas. The ONLY reason we were in the game today was because of our guard play.

Not sure what to say about Wayne Selden. I just hope Graham, Greene and Svi make sure to beat on him in practice. I'd rather he not see the floor than give us the usual reasons for benching him.

EDIT: We would never say that Frank Mason didn't develop. It makes you wonder if it's an issue with the players themselves rather than the coaching.

This will be WSU's national championship. We should treat it the same. There is no tomorrow.

@truehawk93 Our 1 and 2 should beat the 1 & 2 of WSU. But what about the rest of their lineup?

• Fred V. - Mason
• Baker - Graham, Selden, Oubre
• Cotton - ? , Graham, Mason
• Carter - Traylor
• Kelly - Lucas
• Brown - Ellis, Greene, Oubre, Mickelson
• Morris - Lucas

They will probably try to go at us heavy, with Kelly and Morris. If we can put a lot of pressure on two of their guards, a lot will depend on how we defend the 3rd guard of theirs. Who is the slowest footed of Van V., Baker and Cotton? Not sure if Kelly Oubre is ready for this defensive assignment, as it seems he might get stuck with Baker.

IU would be better probably, but both teams look tired to me. That bodes well for KU. We should be able to tire any one of these teams out.

I have no idea, Will watch the game and put in some thoughts.

Rest, stretch, focus, eat, camaraderie, sleep, warmup, stretch, light practice, stretch, focus, camaraderie/eat, sleep, gameday.

@Kip_McSmithers And earlier they confused Oubre with Greene. How do you confuse Oubre with Greene?

@VailHawk Their soccer players are definitely NOT soft.

@Kip_McSmithers I totally missed the play.

@BeddieKU23 He did back into him.... although was that a makeup call?

Bill Self with the great dunk play call.

Every game, Wayne. Your streak is alive.

@RockChalkinTexas

One of the problems with those Adidas uniforms was that they make our players' positioning too visible. Too many colors and patterns that are distinct -> people can easily compute your positioning and movement.

Kelly totally made up for letting that 3 fly. Good thing it was a miss.

Mari is a pretty damn important contributor. If he plays to his ceiling, we won't need Ellis that badly, at least for this game.

@KansasComet This is what scares a lot of us about Wichita State (thinking ahead, which is a no-no). I'm hoping our guards are in tip-top form and destroy even the likes of Fred V. and Mr. Bad Bad Boy.

@RockChalkinTexas I feel like Shaka could be a detriment to landing good talent. Who wants to press all the time if you've got NBA talent? Although, Huggins got Staten, so maybe I'm wrong.

@jaybate-1.0 I think a lot of these teams are exhausted after their tournaments, yes, but I also have a theory that conditioning programs are a bit behind the curve in terms of keeping people in form. I wonder... how many of NCAA tournament teams have any sort of Yoga or regenerative stretching/warmup programs in place. They may ice their wounds and take an easy day of practice, but that is not enough to bring the body back up to speed when the time comes.

This is also a generalized theory about basketball players as athletes. For example, we always talk about Greene's poor footwork, but would that still be a problem after nearly two years if a proper balancing and stretching routine were in place. For all that time on hardwood, do these guys spend any time running barefoot on grass? I'm just saying what many people who do MMA, Crossfit, Soccer, etc. may be thinking. Balance is a major part of fitness that gets overlooked, especially by young, cocky athletes.

Maybe that's the reason -> young, cocky athletes. Nobody takes a look at Frank Mason and says, that guy hasn't developed his game. To perhaps the largest degree, the players themselves are responsible for their own preparedness and development.

@JayHawkFanToo We weren't patient the first time around. We tried to score quickly, with no shot fakes and zero craftiness. Next time, we will have to be sure to possess the hell out of the ball à la UConn/Napier last year. Long possessions with multiple attacks spreading their defense is the only way. We will obviously need to hit some 3's and play killer, killer defense.

Oubre having some ugly looking drives. Yes, we want you to try new things, and by new, we don't mean the same old motions that used to work in high school.