I'm glad we got the win, but I am also glad Svi traveled. It serves as a reminder.
Anybody concerned about the team or was this just a poor outing overall?
betterfireE
287 posts
The injury happened in practice, but what exactly occurred? I'm one of those curmudgeons who think that injuries are not all bad luck because to a large extent, we make our own luck. Diet, rest and preparation do a great deal to keep the injury bug away. Doke is young, and I hope he learns this lesson well. No poor lifestyle choices during recovery phase because I've no doubt that Mr. Injury would love to come pay another visit in the future.
As for KU's chances, I think it could be the difference between getting over a jump game. A rim protector is a great insurance plan, and so our margin of error just went down some. However, would AU have been playing in crunch time in March? Probably not this year. My hope is that Coleby will be more ready by then.
He's out for the season. Would love to hear how this happened. Will wait to hear more info before chiming in.
If family is giving you a rough time, just walk away. Put distance in between. Call for help. Tell teammates and coaches how you are feeling.
Carlton obviously got upset, but this is the kind of stuff that ruins careers. Look at Ray Rice now. Reinstated by the NFL, but nobody touched him this year, even though he pledged to donate 100% of his 2016 salary wherever he signs.
When BMac was at KU, we had:
EJ, BMac, Releford, Young, Withey.
Now it's:
Graham, Mason, Vick, Jackson, Doke.
Perhaps too difficult to compare because of squad discrepancy. This year's squad is superior at ball handling and offensive ability for basically every single position. Defensively, Vick seems like he could make more of an impact. Also, he may have better intangibles. But we don't really know yet until we see more competition.
BMac's averages:
15.9 ppg
5.2 rpg
2.0 apg
1.0 spg
0.7 bpg
I can see Vick equaling BMac's points on a per-minute rate basis while equaling him in the other categories (including turnovers).
Best part of tonight's game for me was Lagerald Vick's steals. Real legitimate steals, one being a run-out. Do we finally have a full set of perimeter players who can create steals?
@Eric-san
It makes a heck of a lot more sense to hypothetically put Graham with the old Wiggins squad rather than Wiggins with the current group. But supposing that happens, who would get more minutes, Wiggins or Jackson?
Take a look at the clips in this Jessie Newell article, and I think the answer is clear: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article116605513.html ↗
The prophesy is true.
Agree. We just need to accept the situation with our bigs. They are all mediocre in their own ways.
Lucas is not long or athletic and might be injured. For a 5th year senior, he hasn't developed much as a passer. Decent balance, but slow.
Bragg could be Kevin Young but is not nearly as quick or defensively skilled. Bragg has a horrible ball-watching habit and doesn't have great balance. He can give you a 10-15 footer, but that's not an important enough skill set.
Udoka probably should focus on HiiT and endurance workouts because whenever I see him on camera he is breathing heavily.. It's a lot easier to play smart and under control if you're not breathing for your life at all times.
Coleby is still recovering from surgery, so my expectations are lower, but he has long arms at least.
I'm interested to hear others' thoughts on how to maximize our lineups. Jackson-as-Perry-Ellis is perhaps an inevitability, with Svi filling in as Wayne Selden. But for our bigs, do any of them complement each other, or do we have to play them one at a time?
Azubuike was a positive, even if not a lot of points produced.
Lucas, Bragg and Vick were the low points.
Free throw shooting?
@Hawk8086
We know that about Graham and Mason, who unfortunately are already relied upon for ball handling and lot s of defensive pressure. And anyone else is a question mark, including Svi.
I hope our defense improves most of all. That way we don't have to rely on the three when March comes around and you play two in three days.
I remember this. But there's no GIF. How the heck are people creating this GIF files anyway? The output from my cable box is HDMI, which is encoded. Do you have to have a setup where the game can be played/recorded on the computer?
In any case, would love to see that!
@justanotherfan
I've actually changed my tune on this. I think Tatum and Giles might not have had much of an impact yesterday.
Without having seen too many games from other teams, I'm not sure Duke is as good as their ranking. I think our guards were just too good for Duke. They had to expend much more effort to stay with us.
Compare this game with the Indiana game, and I think we played worse than against IU, which we lost because IU has athletic guards and a stable of other talented players. Josh Jackson also played a much better game. I have no idea if Indiana contained him better or what (my guess is no, but I'd have to watch again).
Against the stiffest competition, we need to see better and better performances from Svi and Vick. Grayson Allen walked right around Vick at the end of the game with no screen. Not acceptable.
If Azubuike keeps developing on this trajectory, I will feel much more confident about our big situation.
Refereeing: It may become the norm that we get awful treatment, like in the tournament last year. I felt we overcame some whistles against Maryland by basically playing near our ceiling, but against legit competition (Villanova), we did not play well enough to overcome being jobbed. Assuming the same is the case this year, we are not yet good enough.
@HawkChamp
Agreed that Udoka will take over. Our rebounding problem went away with him in the game. Big AND quick.
@cragarhawk
With our atrocious 3 point shooting, eventually teams might come off of Vick, for example, to triple team Frank. Might be possible with a quick team. In any case, I wonder what the strategy is there, if there is one. Could it be a strategy to do this at the end of the game? You do see a lot of this kind of thing in the NBA.
@Jayrawks1
Well, aren't they 2/3 OAD's, not just MCD's? And they're like all bigs.
Are we a top 10 team? Duke is playing without 3 star players. Imagine KU playing without 3 star players.
Vick and Svi. I hope they grow up from this somehow.
We should be winning by 20 points. I'm not impressed.
@tundrahok I think I saw more of the potential today than the rawness. Not sure if I ever felt that way about Diallo against decent competition. Size probably is a huge factor in that. Also, he's pretty darn quick for his size.
Complaints:
Josh Jackson needs to do more Marcus Peters-like things before he acts like Marcus Peters.
Vick still can't shoot until he proves me otherwise.
Lucas still will inevitably get stripped in an open-goal situation.
I never thought Bragg would or could replace Ellis. Totally different skill sets. Perry could put the ball on the floor and post. Not many bigs can do that. Ideally we have Josh Jackson do some of that, with Bragg available for layups and 10 footers.
The biggest difference between squads was that last year, we really tightened up our defense. But still, we did not produce a lot of steals, and I wonder how successful a defense can be without creating turnovers. We don't seem to have the shooting ability that we did last year, so creating turnovers is even more important.
Vick and Jackson. Assuming Svi and Bragg have shown us what they can do, it's all about the development of our other guys. With Jackson, he didn't contribute much either in driving to the basket or producing steals. I'm left wondering what his value is and whether I'm going to have to eat my words about him affecting the game more than Wiggins. Vick needs to produce steals, blocks and shutdown defense. Period. If neither of these things happen, we will have to play at our absolute peak this year to go anywhere in March.
People said we played "bad". We played about as "bad" as Indiana. They simply look more talented to me, and there is rumor that this year has more incoming talent than last. So either Indiana is a top 5 squad, or we have to lower our expectations.
@HawkChamp Couldn't agree more. I have completely changed my expectations for the team in this year's tourney. We may need to explore a Jackson, Vick, Graham, Mason and other various exotic lineups. Take some more losses in service of development. Perhaps we need to let Azubuike play until he fouls out every game.
Most importantly, we need other players aside from our guards to step up defensively and create for this team. Indiana has tons of guys who can create their own shot. Similarly, we need more of our guys to affect the flow of the game in their own way, otherwise there is simply too much pressure on our guards. Vick and Jackson should be averaging two steals a game between the two of them. And I'm talking about actual, created steals, not mop up slop. 2o11-2012 was a team that was great at stealing and blocking the ball. Since we're still not good at either of those things, and we're worse off scoring-wise without Perry and Wayne, where does that leave us?
@Bwag Not sure what advantage 4-1 gives us. I'm not sure what makes our team better than Indiana actually. They were better at basically everything. We were called "one of the best in the country defensively" on air, but I didn't see us make them play bad. At minimum, they made us play just as bad as we did them.
I'm pretty disenchanted. Perhaps we can get better as a team if Jackson and Vick elevate their play, especially defensively. Or if Azubuike develops, but how likely is that?
At the same time, I was VERY impressed with Indiana. An athletic, deep team, of players with ball and shooting skills. Perhaps this is their year.
@jaybate-1.0
"SOCAL is the Deep South come west, as surely as San Francisco is the old Northeast come west."
Please expound on this idea. One difference between SFers and NYers that I've noticed is that SFers are way more into being recognized as exceptional individuals almost to a masturbatory extent. New Yorkers just want to get the job done right and can be short and to the point. But in my opinion, NYers are way more conducive to Midwestern culture and oddly not as arrogant about being from NY as you might expect.
Too early to tell, but Bragg may become that player that we love to hate this year. The danger is if he doesn't score, he won't provide enough value with the rest of his play to not be a net negative.
Is it crazy to have a Svi, Vick, Jackson, Lightfoot, Frank/Devonte lineup?
Coleby looks like he'll be more ready towards the end of the year.
I hope the interior rule changes won't negatively affect Landen too much. That's another thing to keep an eye on. Will he get the Tarik Black treatment from refs?
I would love to not have to run our PGs into the ground... But they may be able to take it.
Interesting about the new rules, we should probably have a separate post about them, but here is a link with a video explaining the rule changes. Some of these look like great changes, but I'm not sure if the post rules will help us or hurt us: http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketballs-5-biggest-rule-changes-this-season-things-to-know/ ↗
@KansasComet mentioned fouls in another thread, and intend to agree. At the end of the game they called contact WAAY too readily on KU.
Still, I agree with Jaybate that our passing was simply too lazy and our D too soft. The usual culprits plus practically the whole team regressed.
Really needed Bragg and Diallo this game, but they're just not there yet. My only major criticism is that Self should have played Vick after the 10 minute mark in the second half. If we do not develop him enough by March, we will regret it because we NEED someone to spell Frank and Devonte defensively.
@drgnslayr From the past, Embiid is a clear choice.
But last game, arguably Oklahoma had 2 players take over the game while KU had 3 (Frank, Devonte and Perry). Keep in mind this is in spite of major officiating headwinds. And in the end, we had the defense to come away with the win.
@drgnslayr Exactly, what happens in the Tournament, when they have to play 2 games in 3 days. They can wear down without their offense.
@bskeet The main thing is that teams like OU and ISU love to submarine people. Like Jamari, Embiid, etc.
Should Jamari have scissored his legs off of the guy? Why the foul on Jamari here?
Greene fell down a couple of times. And Svi didn't intimidate on defense nor create much on offense.
It's nice to have depth. I like that we ran an injured Spangler into the ground. As soon as he's tired and swollen, we let him bang with Lucas.
Anyway, horribly officiated game. I wonder if it's punishment for some of the friendly home whistles we got early in the season.
@DCHawker
Love those steals that our guards produce.
Free throws will be our downfall come March.
Who knows why we aren't going with fresh legs. Is it designed that way?
No doubt it's a good game by Hield, but this game has been heavily influenced. It's pretty scary. Makes you wonder what you're watching.
Lattin should already be fouled out of this game.
So is this a fixed game or what? I'm really not seeing a lot of these fouls on KU. I think we got like two Ricky tack calls in favor of us, but the LL over the back, the rebound where Traylor had his legs taken out, etc. Someone should compile some gif files for us to look at.
Referees have been extremely suspect today.
Another poster put it best: the 2010-11 team was "full of hubris". Definitely one of my least favorite KU teams.
I do like this team, but I am not in love. Im not sold yet. The team this year worries me on defense. Our guards are great. Graham needs rest, but he's the only guy who can consistently create steals. Mason is pretty solid as well. But the 3, 4, 5 positions are worrying.
Greene I like, but only if we keep him on the interior bodied up with some guys. Against quick guards, I'd prefer not to have him running around screens. Use him as a big 3 or even a small 4 against shorter quicker lineups.
Traylor, as he showed against SDSU is perfect against shorter lineups. As much as some posters around here like to dog on Traylor (even as they refuse that they're doing so), they still admit that he shows up when needed. Gee, isn't that what you want your players to do? Competent backups are important.
Perry Ellis gets all the love, and no doubt I appreciate his scoring, but he sometimes hurts the team in ways that are completely ignored. I remember a play where Ellis left a wide open Greene for a poor shot, and the issue hit home for me: Perry Ellis can be a bad teammate. He doesn't pass or defend well. And then when the shots aren't falling, he mopes around with his head hanging low. Why has Self let Perry Ellis get away with this behavior for 4 years? Jaybate was right in how it was a mistake not to have enough internal competition for Ellis early in his career.
Wayne Selden, like Perry Ellis, has made great strides in the offseason, but he also has the negative trait of relying on his offense to give him confidence. Wayne played like a boneheaded freshman in that first half against SDSU. As much as I'd like to say he got over the hump, I still don't feel comfortable trusting Wayne Selden.
As far as the rest of the lineup goes, I trust each of them will find ways to contribute. The 5 position is what it is. I can only hope that Hunter (our only true big) will be ready by March. Bragg I have faith in. Diallo I pray for.
I actually view them as different players. Svi is a guard, with foot speed to match.
Greene is a wing. Yes, he shoots, but he also bodies up pretty well against interior players. He's rebound stats may not reflect it, but he's pretty good at getting rebounds.
I see Greene as the player you put in when Wayne is having one of his inevitable off nights. Assuming, he's not being an asshole teammate, he should get at least 20 minutes a game.
Svi will be needed to spare Graham defensively, and if Svi can't get it done then it's Vick's turn. Greene shouldn't be expected to guard players that either of those guard, at least not without help.
@Crimsonorblue22
Yes, the Royals offense wasn't that good... until it mattered. Man, that was painful to read. Paraphrase: "Toyals found players who could smack line drives." Well, shouldn't other teams do this, too? If you can hit line drives, you can hit home runs, especially in the playoffs when the adrenaline is pumping. And that's what they did. They hit quite a few home runs in the playoffs. I feel like my IQ went down after reading this.
We really can't be playing Perry in those situations then, can we? But we have been for years and years, all hoping that Perry could become a little bit mean, a little bit angry. I use Perry as an example as just one member of the team.
We can be critical of each and every member of the team. And among those on the team, who deserves the least amount of criticism?
It is always disappointing as a fan to watch guys not pan out, but we shouldn't place a whole lot of blame on the coaches. This isn't the NBA; their time with the players is limited. Players have to lead themselves, too.
I disagree with the whole "push the tempo" narrative for this particular game. We were clearly playing tired. We underestimated the athleticism of their 1 and 4 player. When Mason started guarding in earnest late in the 2nd half, we got some misses on him. But we weren't prepared to outrun these guys, which is perhaps a strategy in itself. Sometimes, you have to play tired in conference play and in tournament settings. You have to be able to win more than one way. Harvard always had two guys back immediately, so I'm not sure we would have been effective in outrunning them regardless.
Another point: we should be able to beat them without our March lineup. And what good does it do to waste them on a physical Harvard team when the game is basically meaningless. Don't risk injury or more scouting material when you can save your best ammunition for conference and tournament time (assuming that Self actually uses Bragg and Diallo much more as time goes, which may not be the case...)
Biggest issue I had with the lineup was no Vick or Mickelson. We need to give a defensive specialist like Vick some more game experience if this is truly a meaningless game, as Self seemed to play it. Then again, why are we running out guards into the ground? To practice playing tired?
Harvard showed a team with solid awareness. They played well. Still not quite moving the ball or making decisions like we need to be. Also, we didn't rebound or box out well.
@JRyman Totally agreed. HEM's constant harping on Traylor (a player who legitimately won us games last year) is completely unbecoming of his/her username. It makes it hard to take some of HEM's other analysis seriously. Wasting time on this negativity especially at this point in the season is a waste of life.
Kentucky normally plays good defense, don't they?
Talk radio after the first half of the Chiefs' season was a fun-filled hate-a-thon.
Why were they so awful against us? Unprepared? Or is our experience and ability to run sets?
@Crimsonorblue22 ?? And Self doesn't? Maybe it's a joke to get Mari worked up. Or it's underhanded to get him worked up.
In any cases, this was the Loyola game. It could be both a joke and a motivational tool.