🏀 KuBuckets Archive

My favorite sports moment witnessed live was from a hot summer day in 1976 at Royals Stadium when KC won an extra inning game over the Angels after tying it up in the 9th on a Brett home run. In the 7th, we all were chanting for Mayberry to hit a home run, and after several long foul drives that put the crowd in a frenzy, he did it. Only time I have ever witnessed an audience-demanded homer.

Hotter than hell, sellout crowd, they ran out of ice in the 7th and beer in the 8th. Very memorable--and, oh, Halter Top day adorning my date helped, too!

@jaybate-1.0 Nice tribute to Gale Sayers. Yes, he is alive but he is another victim of (believed to be) football-related brain injury. This article does a nice job of discussing some of the considerations--and makes the point that even if Sayers would not regret his career, the result is tragic, nonetheless.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2017/3/21/15014070/chicago-bears-gale-sayers-dementia-dwight-clark-als-lance-briggs-cte-football-nfl-2017 ↗

@JayHawkFanToo Wrong.

Rooting against a team or player is natural. Refusing to recognize greatness is blind.

I challenge you to figure out why so many people here love and admire Wilt but cannot stand LBJ, citing as their reason the exact same characteristics the Stilt displayed for decades. Arrogance, self-aggrandizement? Wilt's was unmatched in BB history. Roster manipulation? Ask Elgin Baylor how his time in LA ended. Failure to win the big one too often? Wilt won less in more seasons against a league half its current size. And LBJ's personal morality is unquestioned, while Wilt's just makes most of us shudder.

Hating a player for whatever reason happens all the time. I hate Grayson Allen--but it doesn't stop me from seeing how damned good he can be. And if someone likes him, I don't try to piss all over their fandom, however misguided.

@justanotherfan said: "I could see a scenario where football continues to be popular only in the South, while other sports become more popular in other places in the country. The head injury issues have caused lots of parents to pull their kids from youth football."

In the South we can't really notice head injuries much.

Since this is a thread that has an all-time disliked guy, I will mention here another one: The CBS mock draft has Graysonofabitch Allen going to the 76ers. Hope not for Embiid's sake!

@approxinfinity Rooting for or against players and teams is basic to fandom.

Not being able to appreciate greatness in your disliked players is beyond rooting. Especially based on comparisons made to MJ by other people, or what someone talks about in interviews when 95% of the subject matter is hrought up by the interviewers. Or because a player argues with refs, which is pretty much universal in the NBA. (Have you even watched all the other stars over the years? MJ was famous for it. And LBJ hasn't tossed his mouthguard into the stands that I know of. Do you root for Curry?)

I don't like lots of players in lots of sports, but I can still admire what they have done and don't feel a need to take potshots when they achieve mind-blowing accomplishments.

@jaybate-1.0 That is quite a twisted inference from my post. Let me try again, based solely on how I think about it:

I suspect Cal may be dirty based on some of the people around him. I do not suspect HCBS of being dirty. If forced to conclude one way or the other, I would have to conclude there is no firm evidence of either being dirty.

As to whether they themselves suspect any players of illicit benefits, I hope and assume that they would investigate any hints or evidence coming their way, and I believe we have seen that. But I do not expect them to spent all their time being forensic accountants or financial cops, or turning kids down because they made the KU choice late in the game. (Are we suspicious of Shady's last-minute dream?)

@dylans Wait until they lose the printer.

@kjayhawks Smart came out today with his assessment that he is worth a $12 to $14 million contract. He is a restricted free agent. We will see if anyone agrees, or if Boston ends up re-signing him for a lot less after other teams pass on a bidding war (the Moustaka fate).

@approxinfinity Tyron Lue has a pretty good record unless you attribute his success solely to Lebron.

So, by the criticisms you levelled, you must hate Wilt, who was a big-time loser and who blamed teammates, as well as being a philanderer with a monster self-centered ego who believed he was better than Russell despite their records.

We have had this discussion before. And, as before, I just feel bad for you that you are blinded by your dislike so much that you cannot enjoy the simple pleasure of reveling in watching one of the greatest talents ever to play the game.

I know guys who refused to watch golf in Tiger's heyday because of his arrogance. Others who always disparaged Gretzky because he let other guys do the hitting. People who hated Elway because of his threatening to play baseball to get away from having been drafted by the hapless Balt Colts.

In every case, some personal pique created a blind spot to enjoying brilliant, seldom to be repeated, sports performances.

@JayHawkFanToo If those were gift letters for money to help someone buy a house, their use was simply to assure mortgagors that the money was not a loan. As for other recipients needing a gift letter, it would be to ensure the money did not get counted as income (and thus not be taxable), or raise questions about hidden income sources.

@JayHawkFanToo Marcus Morris, who looked like he was trying to get a piggy back ride. And Lebron gets fouled far more than he fouls.

@approxinfinity No, your comment says it all. And it is a free country, which is why people are allowed to point out silly comments.

@kjayhawks To be fair, Baker's second season was marred by an orbital socket injury, and ended for him with shoulder surgery in Feb.

@dylans Ditto for Pete Rose!

@jaybate-1.0 If you go by the 90% of Buckets participants who "know" Calipari has been dirty from UMass through Memphis to UK despite any direct evidence, then your question that conveniently excludes "specifics" answers itself: anyone who generally suspects something could not plausibly claim not to know of it.

But in actuality, specifics are crucial, and thus the need for having evidence before something you suspect is something you "know".

BigBad said:

I dont understand how people hate him. He plays 100% all the time and therefore has maximized his talent. It's what everyone should aim for. I guess we should hope our kids are born with the genetic gifts of a Lebron James and walk up the court 25% of the game.

Yep, old Lebron doesn't try very hard. Famous for being a slacker.

@BShark Maybe he got knocked over by a slow-moving breeze from the movement of the arm 3 inches away.

@JayHawkFanToo Actually, I meant to post this long ago: Adidas, not the recipients of the money, would be liable for the gift tax. It is not like lottery or game-show winnings, which are considered income to winners.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/frequently-asked-questions-on-gift-taxes ↗

@JayHawkFanToo I am amazed you are griping about Lebron fouling while praising Marcus, who tried unsuccessfully to dump LBJ from behind with two hands squarely on his shoulders. No bb play at all, not even a swipe in the direction of the ball. Had LBJ done that, you would never stop lambasting him as a dirty player.

@approxinfinity Just can't seem to give him credit, can you? His only "hand-picked" all-star wasn't even able to play game 7 or most of 6. And the "hand-picked" thing is actually a tribute to his planning since he has done this 8 straight seasons with two different franchises composed of 4 mostly different rosters. And "hand-picked" implies choosing from the whole NBA, but brilliant players available mid-season are few.

The only common element is Lebron. Your harping is reminiscent of people who complained about Babe Ruth striking out too much whenever someone was discussing his revolutionary power, or Wilt's free throws whenever his 100 pt game or his amazing versatility are brought up. It just looks petty, like you are viewing Lebron's career with a tightly focused hate lens.

@nuleafjhawk I love those!

This type of perception thing can also work for lip reading, which can really be more fun than an online audio test. Here, try this: Go to a biker bar and make eye contact with the burliest guy you see about 15 feet away. Slowly mouth the word "vacuum" at him. You won't need an online survey to find out what he thinks you said.

If you survive, try it again in a new place and see if anyone reads your now likely misshapen lips differently.

@dylans The biggest problem for Rush was repeated knee injuries.

Obviously, @HighEliteMajor and I will soon be arguing about whether FBI agents should be able to earn more in endorsements and other outside income so they can get their real market value.

And I believe Silvio's guardian now has a glimmer as to where the first, and second, $20G ended up since we know he and all KU families would never accept an illicit dime.

@justanotherfan I thought the question was pretty clear:

"Who is the high-major coach you genuinely believe does everything by the book and operates completely within the NCAA's rulebook?"

That isn't in the plural.

JayHawkFanToo said:

BShark said:

That said I've laid out some things in the past. Is it really worth rehashing? It doesn't change anything. There is a reason Self has a reputation as dirty in coaching and recruiting circles.

Can you please cite reliable sources that indicate that Coach Self has a reputation as dirty in coaching and recruiting circles? Everything I have heard or read about him is the exact opposite.

There was a CBS poll last summer of "over 100" coaches regarding who is considered the "cleanest" college coach, and I was surprised Bill wasn't among the coaches who got at least 5 votes.

Rank Coach School Percentage

1. John Beilein Michigan 26.6

2. Mike Brey Notre Dame 10.5

T3. Tony Bennett Virginia 7.6

Greg Gard Wisconsin 7.6

1. Mark Few Gonzaga 5.7

T6. Chris Holtmann Ohio State 4.8

T6. Tom Izzo Mich State 4.8

T6. Bruce Weber K State 4.8

-- Every coach listed received at least 5 votes

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/candid-coaches-who-are-the-high-major-coaches-who-dont-break-ncaa-rules/ ↗

A thought or two on how methodology affects perception: First, as noted, the question posed was "who is the cleanest coach", which means the voters had to vote for only one. HCBS (and many others) could be universally considered in the top 10, or top 5, or even 2, but his name would not appear in the survey if less than 5 did not consider him cleaner than all others. This is stupid, and misleading, because it does not provide any sense of overall reputations despite purporting to investigate that. (Beilein certainly stands out from the pack, though.)

Second, I suspect Izzo would not make the list now after the accusations and revelations of how he continued to play players accused of assault.

@HighEliteMajor I think I read somewhere a comment about him reverting when tired in game situations.

Or maybe I made that comment as a theory. It gets confusing after a few thousand posts.

@HighEliteMajor "so long as he does it the way I suggest"

That conditional guarantees your money is safe!

The problem is that he doesn't. That is what the coaches complain about. Benching could be a motivator, but the dilemma is that if he still does it wrong, you bench him and lose the possible 15 pts on 77% shooting from the (2 foot radius) "field". Where do you decide it is worth the tradeoff?

@dylans Gunther C always looked like he knew he was in way over his head, and as if he was wondering when everybody else was going to figure it out.

Herm on the sidelines always seemed to me to be in the clouds somewhere as if he was hoping he would wake up and find out that the game really was a nightmare instead of just feeling like one.

@HighEliteMajor Considering the money, opportunities for parties, routine high-level social interaction, and the availability of groupies in their lives, there really isn't much that college can offer that isn't available ten times over to a new pro.

And they don't have any 7:30 a.m. Calculus classes with, my favorite memory of all, a 3 hour Friday night Final exam.

@Gorilla72 Isn't it funny how careful you have to be to have credibility when making fun of someone? This guy now gets to be laughed at, too!

@JayHawkFanToo Other indictments might be on hold until they see if this one flies.

@BShark I As you speculated, it just recaps and quotes extensively from the WPost article.

@HighEliteMajor & @JayHawkFanToo Some random thoughts on your questions: I think if there is a difference it has to do with the apparent lack of anything wrong with what they did if the NCAA rules alow these things. (Whether the Dad revealed his AAU money to the school is missing from the story.) Also, the indictments seem to focus on the people giving, not receiving money. Finally, JHF2, don't confuse the lack of news about other indictments with a pass being given to anyone. The important thing to keep remembering is that they apparently have the evidence in our case for the fed charges of wire fraud & conspiracy. Possibly a distinction without a difference. I would not be surprised to see some type of mass settlement involving lots more questionable recruits.

A note on my parenthetical and my mention of NCAA rules in the above paragraph: Seems a pretty bizarre set of rules to allow that type of arrangement, and it seems pretty shady when no one admits they ever got any money!

The most encouraging thing about the future of America is that the people who gave themselves a 350 year head start are not going to continue to be the ones who make the rules about the starting line.

@HighEliteMajor Arguing with you is really hard when you insist on proving all my points for me.

@HighEliteMajor Wow. Maybe you really don't see the difference between a make-believe fantasy and one that involves getting excited by a woman actually in fear. Go ahead, keep breathing hard when you read sex-crime news stories. Your attitude is, thankfully, getting replaced by more respectful ones. And let me know how you would react to hearing a guy make suggestive and leering comments when reading a story about, say, your daughter or wife disrobing and being viewed by strange men without their consent.

Upon further reflection, something has to be said about the comments following the article: Decent people find nothing titillating, amusing, or cute about women being made to feel helpless or put in situations where they are vulnerable to exploitation or abuse, including the leers of passers-by or the perverse fantasies of men hearing about it.

Wasn't there an incident in the last couple years involving male cheerleaders posing so only three K's were visible on their KU shirts? Just like this, funny, real funny, the kind that builds a fine reputation.

@dylans @drgnslayr

Maybe the coaches were afraid their heads would explode trying to change both Dok and MG. At some point, one would hope the players would actually figure out ways of improving on their own. It is, after all, the only undefended scoring opportunity in any "team vs team on the same field" sport. A baseball equivalent would be a batter tossing the ball up and hitting it without fielders.

@jayballer73 Unless Simmons gets a jump shot from further than 8 feet, 76ers will not be able to capitalize on their talent. Too gaping a hole in his game.

Crimsonorblue22 said:

@dylans I really don't know why he was in huggy's dog house, do you? He was in there a long time. I don't think he played much against us in tourney. Have to look. Guy can shoot. Kinda funny he went from huggy to Marsha.

From Huggy to Smuggy!

@Crimsonorblue22 What?

@drgnslayr After leaving the NBA, Smart and Grayson Allen will revive Vaudeville by having an act where Allen trips Smart, Higgins blows a whistle and the audience howls at watching Smart suffer and Allen getting caught. The players will just be the only ones who don't get that the audience is laughing out of hate, not joy.

@Crimsonorblue22 Sure spends a lot of time falling over!

Wrong category--not football!

@dylans And Golden State added a little something in FA, too, named Durant.

College bb player high level recruit unwritten rule: Don't Get Caught.

Preston corollary: Be sure you know how to drive any gifted car.

High level recruit family #1 unwritten rule: keep the money yourselves.

@JayHawkFanToo I am just kind of interested in your discounting Bruce as a credible source since you indicated none had been provided. I would think he is far more credible than fan sites!

@JayHawkFanToo “ 'We did talk to them, but they don’t want to start the series right now,' Weber said."

From the article cited in the first post. Might not be credible, though, depending on your particular standards.