🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@benshawks08 The intent element necessary for muder is a criminal intent. Acting intentionally is what you are talking about.

Involuntary manslaughter basically means there was no intent to cause the resulting death. But these things all vary by state.

Here is an example: You drive too fast down the street, and lose control of your car.

Several scenarios, from least culpable to most:

1. Your car had been tampered with since you had performed a comprehensive check on it just yesterday, you had no knowledge of and could not see the tampering, and you could not physically contol the car. No voluntary act + no negligence = no criminal liability.

2. You lost control of your car because you hit the gas pedal thinking it was the brake, and it killed someobody before you could control it, or you failed to inspect your car or never got around to fixing the relocated brake pedal so it is reasonably foreseeable that your foot will hit the gas.
   voluntary act + no criminal intent + negigence = depending on the jurisdiction either negligent homicide (the lowest level of homicide) or vehicular homicide

3. You were driving 120 mph testing your car's acceleration in an abandoned area you didn't expect anyone to be, and suddenly the victim stepped out from around a corner right as you went by.
   recklessness + voluntary act + involuntary result = involuntary manslaughter

4. You were driving your car, mad at the world because KU was going to wear red last night, and you are late to the game, so you are going 120 mph as you turn from 23rd onto Naismith Drive. You see a group of people who appear to be wearing cattle costumes. You decide to drive up on the sidewalk to scare them. Hitting the curb, you lose control and the car veers toward them, snagging a long horn and causing it to impale 3 others in shish-ka-bab fashion.
   intentional endangerment + not intended result = involuntary manslaughter (2nd degree murder in many places if coupled with DUI) or voluntary, if the jurisdiction allows an inference of intent to kill or culpable disregard of the consequences from the degree of gross negligence

5. Change one fact: you intentionally hit the victims = 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter

6. Change it to intentionally driving 3 miles to a Longhorn alumni rally, where you intentionally ram the victims.
   premeditation + intent to kill = 1st degree murder

7. At the Hawk, you get royally drunk because you see Squeaky wearing a "We won the Try Hard Conference title!" tee shirt. After 6 shots of Old Jayhawk, you pick up a Packer Plastics Jayhawk cup you still have from ones you collected at football games in 1976, and shove it into his mouth. You walk away, not caring if he dies. 200 witnesses are carefully watching and security cameras catch it all. He lives.

= civil case against Squeaky for causing you distress

@JayHawkFanToo How much money has KU made, I wonder, for other conference members during our streak of consecutive NCAA appearances? 94 games between Roy and Bill, with at least 6 more this year, we hope!

Here is Spts Illustrated's Peter King's take.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/02/27/marcus-peters-chiefs-rams-trade ↗

I hadn't realized there were so few team interested.

I'm not reading anything into either video. He was talking to Svi down the hall--I doubt Svi wanted to be with someone out of sync with the team during his last walk to a celebration in the AFH locker room. Not embracing Hudy has lots of possibilities foremost among them that we have been told he is shy. He eyes the camera as he arrives, and is probably really self-conscious about hugging her, especially if he isn't a hugging person naturally. Haven't you all known people like that, especially young people not comfortable hugging adults of the opposite sex? Svi barely touches her, too.

The locker room video is too short to be evidence of anything. He could have been sitting down in back, he could have been staying off camera because he was in the buff, he could have been in the john, he might have been out in the hall. Being a sullen nonparticpant is one possibility, but there is no evidence of it. Just my take.

@JayHawkFanToo "Hey, I'm floatin' heah!"

@justanotherfan "Is that truly how we want our police officers to operate? To accuse the victim of looking like a criminal after being shot? To claim they smelled drugs, or saw drugs? To plant evidence and falsify reports?"

Replace "police officers" with "basketball coach" and suddenly we are talking about Dave Bliss. He at least got fired and a 10 year show-cause; most police get zilch.

I am actually very conflicted after watching the video. It is not as simple as a cop going to stand behind a stationary vehicle and then not moving and shooting instead. This all happened in just a few seconds. I think the cop was startled when the car started coming out, and when the car did a 180 it was accelerating up the hill toward him. I think he probably had a genuine fear for his life.

On the other hand, he did not look for a solution other than shooting. There is still a cop mentality of shooting to solve virtually any problem. That may be appropriate when entering a scene with a known violent offender but not when you are sent to help someone in distress.

This case seems similar to "Well, when I tried to talk him off the ledge, he reached into his pocket so I shot him."

As I said, I think he feared for his life but he should have been able to avoid that danger. As to a criminal intent, the standard in second degree is either criminal intent or recklessness equivalent to an intent. Here, not the first. As to the second, they appear to have been viewing the act of shooting (no mens rea if he feared for his life when he pulled the trigger) but not all the circumstances of whether he should have been in such great fear. (Edit: JHF2 has good points on manslaughter posted while I drafted this.)

Put another way, shooting was the most drastic solution to his perceived danger. But it was probably one of several available to him. He chose to treat the suicidal kid the same as he would have responded to a violent criminal suspect. That is where he was tragically wrong.

Prosecutors tend to give police the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes, we should be grateful for that because we want cops who act in good faith to feel trusted by those of us who rely on them. Too often, bad cops get protections they don't deserve when the investigation looks to clear a shooting rather than find out what went wrong.

And that is the danger of not pressing any charges or saying "good shoot" when we know it wasn't--other cops will have no incentive to not escalate their responses in these largely avoidable situations.

When I was a JAGC attorney in the Army, a grizzled old infantry E-8 (master sergeant) came to speak to our group of freshly minted attorneys to explain something about life in the non-desk army. He was a 38 year veteran, having served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. He said that the rules of waging war had gotten so complicated thanks to all the treaties and the Code of Military Justice that he was glad he was retiring because if he had to go to war again, he was going to drag a JAG atty with him where ever he went in combat.

We don't want cops to be frozen by fear that anything they do will be immediately under suspicion, but we certainly don't want them to think that every problem should be distilled to shoot/don't shoot without review.

Again, I am glad I am not a cop. I have had close friends who were. How they stayed sane? no clue.

@KUSTEVE The timing actually could explain why a crappy story got released at all. Maybe the 3rd string editors were on duty and made a call above their pay grade, and now ESPN is picking up the pieces.

Hmmm....I wonder if all those cutbacks in higher paid staffers ever have hurt any companies. Let's see who remembers Circuit City...Lowe's is going through it, too.

This might have been covered in the game chat but I wasn't on: The crowd was drowning out a few words, but it sounded like Dickie V said the Streak is in the same category as Joe D's hitting streak. Apparently to him it is not "just a footnote to history forgotten by everyone except KU fans."

Lulufulu said:

@BShark Lundardi hardly ever gets it right. I mean, it might be close, sort of. But what his bracket looks like and what the seeding committee actually releases on selection sunday aint ever been similar. Except for maybe the 1 and 2 seeds

Lunardi and other bracketologists' real goals and measures of success are (1) to correctly predict who is in, (2) to predict the order of the 4 number 1 seeds, and (3) to get teams on the correct seeding line. I think they don't care at all in measuring their accuracy about their matchup predictions, except where they might make an adjustment using the protocols the committee uses when dealing with the geographic placements of top teams near home if possible, and in avoiding early same-conference matchups when possible.

We are always put in with someone like WSU just to yank our chains and generate clicks. I have seen it in years past with other "predicted" 2nd round games that look like they would be interesting matchups, such as UCin or WVU vs UK, or UNCC vs NCSt.

@BShark Happy to! When I saw the difference in the audio and camera shots, I figured it was worth doing.

It was weird, though, because I first posted DG's from youtube's address in the chrome address bar when his video was up. Then I clicked on Clay's which was showing as playing next, and again copied the address from Chrome's bar. Same with Svi. Each of them showed up in my post as the same screen you see now. But when I played them they all reverted to DG even though the embedded links were different. Delete.

So, after failing a second time (more deletes) I finally figured out that you have to get the youtube link for any subsequent videos to your first one from the dropdown in the box below the video, and then click on the curving arrow that means share. The true link shows up in the box that appears with the sharing choices. Copy, paste back here. Not very intuitive for those of us who just learned from you 3 days ago how to embed!

@wissox Seems a stretch to me. It is not as if there aren't a lot of winning Nike teams anyway.

But, crap, maybe ESPN is part of this whole mess. I left the networks out in the post where I talked about all the actors and groups involved.

I think Yahoo Sports is behind it all.

@BigBad I wonder if he suffers from depression. It might be the on/off switch involved in his opt in/zone out game. But I wondered last night why Self had him in late in the 2nd half when Newman was being more aggressive and was much more careful with the ball. If LGV has a switch he can't control, he and the staff have to learn how to recognize it. (It took me a decade, however.)

Svi

Clay

These SlantTV youtubes are better than kusports. Better audio (the kusports is muffled and you can't catch what they are saying in applause) and the scoreboard screen is used so you get the camera cuts to see the people they are talking about.

DG

@JayHawkFanToo Uh, oh, we were thinking alike again! I was going to post that and then decided I have been on the Dark Side of the football program for too long. So, I am being drawn to the Light Side...if only there were some light this would work!

It is the 4/5 year guys that allow us to define the Streak in the spans of 4 "generations" of players:

Kleinmann overlapped Releford who overlapped Lucas/TSelf who overlapped....Lightfoot who, when he gets his 4th or 5th ring, will overlap someone we have never heard of.

@truehawk93 In the picture, they are looking off to the side toward someone who is demonstrating to hold one finger up from one hand and four up on the other. The guys on the left side look like they don't expect it to be taken yet.

Vick does look funny since we don't see his right hand!

@KUSTEVE You know, Jethro, with Green Acres having been a spinoff of your show, I would think you'd have a little more compassion for Hooterville's favorite porcine resident, Arnold Ziffel. He just lost a distant cousin to murder, murder most foul.

@BShark No, Malik will be in his fourth year of college. Junior for athletics only. If he graduates on time, I don't think you can deny him a SR Nite.

@BShark If Malik is on track to graduate, and if here, he is one. Plus Vick, again if he is here.

Hey, Clay is a Senior, too, tonite, isn't he? Does he start?

@RockChalkinTexas A little bit of mischievous in a certain Austin resident, seems to me!

@Kcmatt7 This counts only the number of consecutive polls we are in, and includes the weeks they publish the AP poll (the one I am using). I don't know if preseason is included. Between seasons doesn't count because no polling is done.

@Statmachine Actually, it is a law of the universe that we can't drop out of the top 25. 178 weeks and counting, going back to 2009. Nova has the second longest current streak at 80.

UCLA has the longest, at 221, with Duke at 200 (ended 2007). We lie third all time.

Thank goodness we have another Streak to shoot for!

@justanotherfan I know you are not excusing the conduct, but I fear you are excusing the player--who, as far as I know, has never condemned his prior crappola. You and I are in sync about the protests--it has nothing to do with my feelings on this.

For me, the issue is different than Hill because I know of no questionable conduct by Hill since he was drafted. (I had no opinion then because I don't follow the draft very carefully, and KC's draftees don't get much press here in SC.) Peters has acted out of control and dysfunctional since joining the Chiefs, which is why I am thinking that 18 year old is still in there, anxious to come out. How long until we become Cincy, making excuses or allowances for Adam Jones?

I have said before that I will always be a Jayhawk fan unless they engage in Syracuse or UNC level violations or countenance extreme player misbehavior. Peters' behavior rises to that level.

(If he has made amends and I missed it, then my position would change.)

@justanotherfan I would rather they trade him and get something rather than wait for him to self-destruct and get tossed.

I was wondering: what level of denigration of women and other abusive conduct would you deem sufficient for the Chiefs to make a bad football move to get rid of him if a bad move was the only option? Had I seen those tweets, I as the Chief's coach would never have drafted him. The next CB down was probably okay.

We have had one disturbed Chiefs player rock the sports world committing murder and killing himself. It isn't a matter of not liking Peters. It is a matter of losing all respect for an organization that overlooks attitudes like his.

(And I want no words about culture, or he was just playing to his friends. People who say those things as public figures legitimize actions by people who act those words out.)

@HighEliteMajor Actually, last night I found out there are a number of state laws against agents (or their own agents) inducing student athletes to sign contracts in violation of their amateur status and their agreements with the universities. 3 UNC fball players were convicted of inducing others back in the mid 2000's. I also found an Oregon statute specifically on point but I did not resrarch whether any cases have been brought.

BUT, in your favor, the feds tried and failed in a 7th Circuit case in 1993 or so to base a case on violation of NCAA rules. A NYT article last fall explained what they are charging this time to try to get around that ruling. I will try to find it, but I don't know how it applies to the recent revelations.

My analysis that you quoted was so confusing to me on rereading that I appreciate you trying to make sense of it. It was late. And I had lost track of to whom I was replying at any given moment.

Here is the problem in our discussion: we have lots of leaked info that may or may not be legit but is certainly incomplete, and lots of rumored info that obviously may not be true, and we have just a few charges brought against just a few people, with some explication of the basis but without development of any evidence or analysis by the feds of their theories.

Most importantly this week, we have no clue whatsoever whether the leaked info about alleged payoffs will result in charges against any of the people whose names appear.

Underlying our discussions has been the fact that we get our boundaries blurred regarding which groups of actors we are discussing: shoe companies and their reps (employees and independents), agents (both individual and corporations or partnerships), coaches (and other school staff), AAU organizers and coaches (who may be de facto shoe company agents, or advance agents for professional agents), student athletes (who may be adults or minors), boosters, and family members (immediate, far-flung, and we will include guardians here).

Different standards of conduct involve all of them. Different theories of prosecution could apply to each group, and conspiracy charges can bridge gaps when group members seek the help of other groups.

We have seen no charges yet involving direct payments to athletes, so we do not know what might occur in the area most directly of concern (along with coach involvement) to fans--eligibility of their teams' players, and their teams.

In the absence of being able to see the whole picture, I can only say that I think the investigation has already uncovered criminal conduct (we have seen at least one guilty plea) and that the leaked info hints at extraordinary levels of dishonest conduct by scores of people at many levels and involving many companies and schools. I have firm faith that it is being conducted in good faith. I also believe, although no one else has accepted my hypothesis, that the feds are worried about whether the money here is only a hint of the taint that might exist if there is indeed a connection to gambling, rivaling the scandals of the 40's and 50's.

As an aside, I sure am glad that no refs were named in the leaked info.

As to the competition issue, I was speaking of competition in the economic sense of two actors each engaged in a similar business attempted to obtain the same thing. In that sense, someone trying to form another consortium of college athletics would definitely be in competition with the NCAA. Someone trying to pull amateurs out of school to play professionally would be in competition with the school where he is enrolled. But an agent is not competing with the NCAA by signing a student in violation of the rules: he is acting against the wishes of the NCAA, certainly, but not for the same thing. He wants a commission on a pro contract and on endorsements, both of which he cannot legally do while the kid is in school and in good standing. (Only dealing with professional agents in this discussion.)

Trying to undermine the NCAA is not competition; it is more a form of sabotage. If I want to stop a local auto dealer from having bright lights shining into my house every night, I can do it legally or I can secretly shoot the lights out. We are in contention, but not in competition, for the space lit by his floods. Similarly, the agent who wants to represent a student can do so through legitimate means or he can do it through bribery, undue influence, blackmail, or whatever, but I think doing it in underhanded fashion is itself evidence of its illegality.

Do I think the charges are tenuous? Not really, but we have seen only a few. I think the possibility of conspiracy charges ramps everything up a lot.

But I think we all have to learn more before we even begin to make educated guesses. I just want to make sure now that everyone realizes there is a need to define who we are talking about when we use the phrase "the FBI investigation" and that all the parts of it will involve separate considerations.

@Buster-1926 I miss McGuff! and Joe P.

@dylans Where is that "Mellinger is an idiot" meme? Remember how he said the Royals were idiots for keeping Ned? How he has piled on any questions about KU? He did better covering HS sports..

Hope this guy never transfers. Can you see the headlines now?

@KUSTEVE Did it go down after OU, or just after both games combined? It could be that the OU game had little influence but TT alone was the reason. Acc to sports-reference.com, the only thing besides off rebs that was noticeably different between the two was TT's off rtg of 112 compared to 102 for OU. 112 with the 13 off rebs by TTU may have been enough to drop us.

By comparison, UVA's last 4 games have held opponents' off rtgs to 100, 87, 100, and 67 (Pitt on Sat). We have not held a team below 102 since TCU on Feb 6 (95).

@JayHawkFanToo "My favorite Bilas quote…DNA of Champions!!! 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆"

Wouldn't it be cool if one of our players in the Streak has a son who comes to KU and helps extend it?

BShark said:

Accompanying pictures to the Devonte pic.

!alt text ↗
!alt text ↗

Self's watch seems to have undergone a nice upgrade since Sherron!

Gorilla72 said:

@mayjay - awesome! Ticket prices would be astronomical!

Road trip! Get the keys!

Damned good thing Trae never got them....

@Hawk8086 Let's bring FGCU and UCF to the B12 and schedule Spring Break for the final week of conference season every year so our students can go play in the surf and Disney World (making ESPN even happier) and fill their arenas! Then they could afford to keep Dooley.

@KUSTEVE Does defensive efficiency by KP factor in opp's offensive rebounds?

"Geez, I can't believe any real fan is willing to settle for any losses. "Satisfied" with losing? The real standard is undefeated seasons, set by UCLA and Indiana. We are a blue blood and we shouldn't accept anything less than an undefeated season."

Okay, now that I have facetiously purged the Perfectionist Fan from my system, reality sets in. I am really looking forward to next year. We might have growing pains, but these guys are all alphas and the staff is legendary at making gears mesh. What a great combination. It will especially be fun getting to watch all the guys whom we have heard about for a couple years, and becoming familiar with their games.

I think it will be exhilarating and extraordinarily rewarding!

We have all agreed this could be the most topsy turvy tourney (like that?) in history. Any of the top 8 seed lines could probably beat any others. Figuring out distinctions between seed lines is probably hopeless.

But, if history is a guide, when things go crazy, consistency is paramount. KU is playing its most encouraging ball of the year in the most stressful circumstances--we were effectively in a single elimination situation involving our second most important season goal for 4 games running. Major factor in our favor!

BShark said:

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

You might not have any cousins, though.

@elpoyo "Ukrainian roulette" is without doubt the best post you have ever made!

@BShark FWIW, I found his stats at San Barnardino:

!0_1519653933398_Screenshot_2018-02-26-09-04-39.png ↗

Looks like he did okay when he did play but not great. I just hope he took some advantage of the education. Maybe he got cut short by another injury.

@Blown I know. I was thinking they should look for an ambitious grade school coach instead of setting their sights on anyone who has absolutely no reason to poison their careers.

What if Apples had been paid to get Josh to Syracuse?

@BShark He went to Loyola Marymount in fall 2013 and played 4 games. 41 total minutes, 11 total points. Found an article from LMU from the year after he was there saying they did not expect that in 2013 "highly reputed Nino Jackson would fizzle, get injured and flame out."

I found an article showing him as a soph transfer at San Bernadino College (a JUCO) in 2015-16, the year after they won the Foothill Conf title.

Nite!

@Crimsonorblue22 And, by the way, you misled us by pointing out Frank isn't here anymore since that is also true of BP!

@Crimsonorblue22 For Senior Night? That shows that there may still be some legitimate questions about the ticket office.... I was going to guess Roger Morningstar.

@Crimsonorblue22 "Dollar Bill"?

@BShark He chose Kansas thanks to discussions with Sherron. I don't think Self would get steered wrong by his "best ever guard recruit".

@Crimsonorblue22 If not DG and Svi, I can't imagine, but you said no. I give up. Wait--you?

@Crimsonorblue22 BIFM?