KUSTEVE said:
@BigBad I only gig you because you think you're smarter than Coach and the rest of us. Just so you know, I'm setting you up to serve you a big plate of crow later on.
Not eating any crow with this team this year. We are on the same team here, Jayhawk fans. I’d love to be wrong but I’m just realistic and knew this year was going to be a tough one.
truehawk93 said:
@KirkIsMyHinrich This team came within a few field goals and they went for treys. I said it at about the 7-8 min mark. They were within a few buckets and they went for three treys, and missed all of them. Part of being a good shooter is to know when to pound inside or attack. We don't have a player that can attack the rim like Frank. Graham is the closest thing we have to Frank. Graham does not lead attacks. He leads guys to do the wrong thing on certain plays.
Careful... I got blasted for calling out DGs lack of leadership.
Yep I am referring to DGs defense THIS year. Guarding Buddy two years ago shows what he is capable of. Anyone whos played knows defense is more about effort rather than ability. I know the amount of minutes is most likely the main cause of less effort.
JayHawkFanToo said:
I just don’t see De Sousa playing 15 minutes any time soon, maybe towards the end of the season. I can see it being more likely Preston playing 15 minutes...if he is ever cleared. Having said that, if Preston is not cleared by the start of classes I doubt he would want to attend school if he is not playing. He could not wait a few months for a car so I don’t see him waiting a few months to start getting paid; he will likely sign with an agent and get some advance cash against future earnings and bolt.
Preston would be better served practicing with this team. He can attend classes and just coast, like UK players all do.
@HighEliteMajor Cheick Diallo averaged 7.5 Minutes per game for us, and I'd be surprised if Silvio got more than that. Obviously Traylor was 1st big off bench, but my point is talent doesnt always get the minutes under Self.
Anything over 10 min would be "significant" I guess.
KUSTEVE said:
@BigBad And DG isn't a leader, right? That's what you said during the game on Friday.
I'm a fan and I don't owe these guys anything. It isn't a crime to call it like I see it. I don't find Devonte Graham to be suited to lead from the PG position, shoot me. He takes awful shots and has to be told over and over again to run the offense and get the ball inside, as a SENIOR. Notice he had ZERO assists in the first half on Friday? I guarantee he got lit up by Self at half, then had 8 assists in the second. He tends to only play hard D after made shot(s), like an immature player does. Go back and watch Fridays game and watch how much he stands around and watches on the defensive end. I do understand he is really playing out of position and he is asked to play a ton of minutes, but as a senior he needs to make better decisions, play hard on the defensive end, and lead by example.
@KUSTEVE Yes because coach is totally open and honest with the press. It isnt arrogance, it's years of watching.
Silvio is not, I repeat NOT going from high school to Big12 play and getting any significant minutes. Anyone remember Oubre not starting? Josh Selby was the #1 player ranked in his high school class and missed some early games and ended up sitting!!! I know this team is thin but Self loathes freshman mental mistakes.
BShark said:
This team has probably about a 1% chance of making the final four though. I honestly don't see it at all. Taking bad shots is like, a feature for this current team. Imo a top 15-25 range team that will lose in the S16, maybe earlier with a rough 2nd round match-up.
100% agree
Self does not want to play 4 guards and chuck up 40 threes a game. Our roster has forced his hand. I don't care how many people think he has "changed", it inst winning basketball and he knows it.
What I loved about last year was Mason and Jackson were both dogs on defense. This years team has only 1, Garrett, and he is so raw offensively that it can hurt. I'd play him over Malik or Svi if one is struggling badly on the offensive end because its a good trade off. Probably lean towards Malik because he hasn't shown the ability to get hot like Svi.
I'd like to see extended stats on Young. What is his make percentage from 25' +. Sometimes people get suckered into guarding a guy out there when you really don't need to. Dude took 14 three point shots today....14. I'd stay back on him and let him chuck away. Once you go out that far its tough to guard.
HighEliteMajor said:
Quick hits from the Texas win -
- Sam Cunliffe -
Self is always reluctant with new guys ESPECIALLY in league play.
Guys all pumped about DeSousa need to pay attention.
- Garrett over Newman
No biggie
3. Press break - Ugh.Pretty sloppy but Devonte is only primary ball handler.
- Udoka is really skilled
Nice to see him abandon the premeditated running hook in the 2nd half and mix in some up and unders.
5. Live and DieWe will die. No way do we survive playing this way.
- Zone - Great, great move by Self
Unless its a philosophy like Syracuse, zones are always a quick fix and dont work in the long run. I've always liked how Self seems to pull them out at nice times. At UK last year was great too.
Mitch Slapped - Block early in the game, turned into a break and points the other way ... who told me that (@approxinfinity)???
5-0 Headed to Morgantown - Book it.
3 out of next 4 at Allen. 5-0 is doable.
9. SviHot or cold. Hot Svi sure makes things easier.
- Frank Mason - I know, the Texas game is what I'm talking about. But he got his second start tonight. Best PG in KU history. Hang his jersey in the rafters now.
Nice
The concerted effort to get the ball inside to Doke was obvious and a great to see.
Kcmatt7 said:
A couple of other notes:
- This team does not give Doke the ball enough. He had 26 on a night he should have gone for 35-40.
- We continue to get burned for easy buckets. And yet we have not seen one possession of zone on D yet. This team is not deep enough or talented enough defensively to win the tournament playing M2M unless everyone gets hot at the right time. That is unless we try and see what a Zone does.
Doke needs to work on establishing his post position before the ball is on his side. He is pretty bad at it and only looks to get the ball when its on his side.
Agree our D is soft soft soft and allows way too much penetration.
bmensch1 said:
I have full faith that soon...Malik will be the 2014-2015, number 8 ranked kid. He will get his mojo and I hate to bring up anything that's attributed to Marsha...but play angry. We'll see the attached kid. I want him to get to the point when he asks if his opponent is "scared"
Not happening. The dude practiced against Mason and Devonte all last season. He just isnt that good. He isnt that fast with the ball and doesn't have a good enough jump shot to make him faster.
Brandon Rush was so incredibly smooth on both ends of the floor that he is always criminally underrated to even knowledgeable Jayhawk fans. If he doesnt injure his knee in the offseason, he is off to the NBA and we don't win in 08.
This is an above average college basketball team and a bad Bill Self team.
The idea that Silvo will help is laughable if you know Bill Self. He HATES young and dumb. Think of all the talented freshman Self has given the quick hook to over the years. How many freshmen dont see the floor once conference play starts. All of those guys had a summer, bootcamp, preseason, exhibition, and early season to get right and still pissed off old Bill. Unless Silvo has the ability of Josh Jackson and the brains of a senior he wont help at all.
Cunliffe and Silvo will just be bodies.
Billy Preston is the only guy, currently not playing, talented enough to help the team win some games.
Kcmatt7 said:
His points allowed per 100 possessions is better than Vick and Svi. So his defense has been at the very least AS bad as theirs. And yet, they aren't getting bashed the same way.
I actually "bash" them too.
Kcmatt7 said:
If Newman wasn't ranked so highly coming out of High School, everyone here would be more than happy with his play. I just think everyone expected him to be the second coming of B-Mac, only better.
I wouldn't. I could care less about his high school ranking. I just see a guard without a consistent jump shot, isnt a great finisher at the rim, doesn't create for teammates, and is still green on the defensive end.
jaybate 1.0 said:
These guys are trying hard, but they are young and some are shall we say idiosyncratic.
We start two seniors and a junior. I'll give Newman a pass because its his first year at Kansas but he is three years out of high school. Youth isnt the issue. ZERO post play and all secondary guards is.
@BeddieKU23 He's played like he's had one all season....
@justanotherfan TLDR; Flawed roster
Team is built to live and die with the 3. Its that simple. If Doke had more of a post game we would get away with the 4-out offense even on bad shooting days. A true 4 in the high low would also get Doke a few more quality touches.
If you are blaming guys who were always intended to be role players, it just proves that our starters are the problem.
He blocked me on twitter a while back..he is a pansy
We never run high low stuff anymore because of our roster makeup. In years past whenever we needed a bucket Self would ALWAYS go to a high low set regardless of the defense. Billy Preston at the 4 would bring that into play. Though the high post in Self's high low is the hardest position to learn and he has lost so much time. Not sure if he can save our half court sets. It depends on his talent level I guess.
The defense we saw last night and against Syracuse is going to be the wave of the future in college basketball. Most guards today only have a layup and a three point shot. Good true big men leave for the NBA quickly. So aside from an elite big man freshman which only a few teams get, teams are left with average post players and guards with no mid range game. Teams are going to give that soft spot until you can prove you can hit it or execute a screen and reverse for the three.
College basketball players/coaches are starting to buy into "midrange shot is bad statistically" so they are not using it enough. People are forgetting that if you dont have the ability at all three levels you are easier to defend.
Mason last year was deadly because he had ability at all three levels. He could shoot the three, finish at the rim, and hit that 12-15 shot OFF THE DRIBBLE and keep the defender guessing. He could change speeds and then execute at one of the levels.
@Hawk8086 Yes Self wanted anyone but Curry to take it.
He understands this team has a limited roster and is probably just managing personalities.
What is crazy is our 2008 team was LOADED with pros and we barely survive Stephen Curry in the Elite Eight. Go back and watch that game on youtube. Curry is what he is now. No idea how scouts didnt see it coming.
@justanotherfan Chalmers is an ELITE defender who possess a 6'9 wingspan at 6'1. I dont see Devonte in that mold.
Our 2008 team was special. It took NBA talent to win the first final four with four #1 seeds.
justanotherfan said:
I would say out of all of these guys, Vick plays 12 years, Devonte plays 9, Preston plays 7, Doke plays 4, Svi and Newman go overseas.
Vick has zero natural ball skills and a so so shot. He is a slasher period. To excel at that role in NBA to play 12 years he'd need to be around 6'7.
Devonte struggles against length(Oregon) and when his wide open or chucks from outside are not falling he cant create in the half court for himself. If he had ability to play 9 years in the NBA he would already be gone.
Svi is not fast enough and has really short arms. Though his age may get him some looks.
I like these guys as college players, I just don't see their skills translating to NBA.
dylans said:
How athletic does he need to be? He’s 7’1” if he could stroke it flat footed most people couldn’t bother his shot. He’s athletic enough to block shots.
We have played NOBODY outside of UK as far as real talent. Doke is averaging 1.4 blocks. So obviously he isnt athletic enough to block shots. Lightfoot is leading the team in blocks.
What a lot of you guys do not seem to grasp is that Bill Self MAXIMIZES his roster every year. It's why we get ranked so high with marginal talent.
@dylans A stroke doesnt fix his lack of athleticism. Durrant may be weak but he is explosive enough for his size and position. A durrant stroke doesnt fall out of trees.
@dylans Top 5 pick? It isnt just a stroke he is missing. He has ZERO explosiveness. He is a horrible rebounder for his size because of it. He also almost always has to gather before going up with the ball. In college he gets away with it, in the NBA he will get his shot blocked every time.
NBA talk is always funny to me because it 99% wrong. Take a look at ANY draft and look at the amount of players who are out of the league in 3 years. There is NOBODY on our roster that will play in the NBA for longer than 3 years. Billy Preston is actually the only one that has a legit chance of having a decent career, but I haven't seen enough.
I dont remember the circumstances in which Dwight Colbey left. Sure seems we could use his inside muscle with our lack of depth.
@JayHawkFanToo Weight isnt as big an issue as STRENGTH is. You can be thin and strong. Kevin Garnett is the prime example. 6'11 250 at most.
Devonte seems to me to a nice combo guard in the mold Self loves. However once a combo guy is forced by the roster to be the main facilitator it doesn't always work out. The only way it does is if they are almost unguardable one on one like Sherron or Frank.
@BShark He can improve his vertical but 95% of explosiveness is God Given.
Teams need to get ahead of this type of stuff. If a guy is clearly a one and done the coaches should ask for and verify what type of car the player will bring on campus. The coaches know the kids family financial situations and they only manage 12 players.
@BShark Doke looks slow now, he'd look like molasses in the NBA.
I honestly dont see anyone on this current KU team lasting in the NBA. The only one that has a serious chance is Billy Preston due to his size.
Should fit with Mr Bball IQ Marcus Garrett
Big 12 Title
Elite 8 at best
Unless....Preston comes on like gangbusters and DeSousa somehow plays 2nd semester and provides decent ability for front line depth.
I always get excited about the first national televised game of the year. You never know which newcomer will be a "gamer". Every basketball team always has guys that just seem to step up in spotlight games.
I'm leaning towards Malik tomorrow.
Anyone else feel like Malik and Selby are similar. Self loves combo guards, guys that do everything good but not great. Sometimes that translates well(Chalmers) and sometimes it doesn't.
KUSTEVE said:
@JayHawkFanToo Here, here...you were on the Garrett train right along with Bshark and me.
I was on that train way before it left the station as well.