🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@JayHawkFanToo Just thoughts here -- if Self and the main recruiter knew of the payments. Or if they were aware vaguely that Adidas helped. All of that could have occurred. Would the compliance office know if Self hid his knowledge (vague or otherwise) from them? It would make great sense to appear ignorant on all fronts. Of course, one can appear ignorant because they really are ignorant. I personally like your scenario the best.

If there were payments to players you mentioned, of course, Adidas (we) could have been outbid. Which goes to some of your prior points.

Really, either we did it and other are too; or we didn't.

That goes to something I said before. If we did it, and other did, and they target us with sanctions, we should blow the whole thing up. Expose everything we know. Burn it down. Because there is no freaking way that Williamson was not paid to go to Duke given the KT stuff. No way.

@dylans I can assure you that you are in much greater proximity to Self's "balls" than I have ever been. Hard to move from your vision to see clearly. But I guess you are just a true fan. Superior in all regards. A member of the "I'm more of a fan than you are crowd" then. Always an entertaining, yet shallow, reply.

@JayHawkFanToo I am more concerned about what we don't know. Other info. Squealers that are now convicted. What we do know can be lawyered, of course, as you have done. And I think we overlook the fact that if Adidas reps and Self were working together, the communication with players' parents/guardians would necessarily include the concept that Self doesn't know -- meaning the Adidas reps would posture that way. But that is speculation.

I may be more into conspiracy theories when money is involved. Or certain "causes." I think another conspiracy

@dylans One minor point -- folks go to prison based on circumstantial evidence. You don't need blood tests, or an eye witness. And that's in a criminal matter, not our assessment of whether some likely occurred or not. But I get your point. And I respect everyone that says "Bill is my guy." That's loyalty, which is an incredible quality, and the "evidence" is not completely clear.

The question is what does one need here to reach a conclusion. My conclusion is murky because of Self's unequivocal statement. It's now black and white because of what Self said. There is no grey. Either he's a liar and a cheat, or he's a man of incredible integrity in a world of slime. His statement (unfortunately if untrue) paints him into a corner. If his statement is true, the truth will prevail.

He could have said - "KU has provided no inducements to players. As for third parties, I have no direct knowledge of any of anything like that. I do know what we've heard from the trial. It is disappointing. And of course, in this business, you hear whispers. My job and duty is to make sure we do not engage in that conduct as University. When I have learned that a player's eligibility may be compromised, we have worked to resolve the issue, and at times, we don't play that individual. You saw that last season. Adidas is a private company, of course, and makes their own decisions in the best interests of their company. My commitment is that Kansas will not engage in any of that."

I'm not saying that's a perfect draft, but I'm quite sure this type of suggestion was made by an attorney involved in this -- if not, they should seek other counsel.

And it kind of says the same thing. Just with a bit more wiggle room maybe. Again, a first draft that should be modified I'm sure.

I had mentioned a while back that there is real scenario where Self does not return as the coach. That is significantly in play.

This is not a criminal case where the standard of proof is very high. So I'm not giving Self the benefit of the doubt completely, because of what we know so far, but his firm statement certainly has to be considered. Since he is a man we have all respected, that statement has significant weight with me.

I would offer that Self has not had this sort of NCAA scrutiny before. Many coaches bolt under such an environment. My prior view of Self's character would have told me that he would not abandon ship during rough waters. Now, I'm just not so sure. That said, Medcalf is about worthless and his opinion is of course just chatter. But the topic he raised is one that confronts many coaches with the NCAA breathing down one's neck -- why deal with it when there are other opportunities.

But look, Self said KU never provided any inducements and said he didn't know of any third party inducements, so we have nothing to worry about, right? I mean, Self said clearly it's all fiction.

@kjayhawks Depends on what you call the rotation. I think Charlie's minutes are dictated by Dotson's minutes. Self's all in on Dotson. That's a good thing. But if Dotson is in foul trouble, and his 33 minutes become 24, I bet Charlie fills the void there. Not sold on the idea that Self sees Garrett as a number two ball handler.

And Myron Medcalf's predictions regarding KU:

Kansas will reach the Final Four, Bill Self will take an NBA job after the season: Last summer, Self told ESPN.com he doesn't want to coach past the age of 60. He'll turn 56 in December. And he made that statement before he was connected to the ongoing FBI corruption investigation that has rocked the sport. He has the potential to win another national title with a unique squad that features Dedric Lawson, a 6-9 forward as a point forward and a top-10 recruiting class. He'll take that squad to the last stage of the NCAA tournament for the second consecutive season. And then, Self will hear from an NBA team that will make him an offer he can't refuse. At Big 12 media day, he said he won't run from the FBI drama. He can't. But he can end his NCAA career, head to the NBA and leave some of the drama behind.

I would not bet on Snyder leaving. He is the God of football in Kansas. He may be stubborn. He may be put off by the talk.

Of course, he may truly be the type of person most see him as, and that may lead him to step aside.

Keep all that Marshall/WSU news away from @Crimsonorblue22 -- her head might explode. I know she's a big fan. Losing to La. Tech? At home?

The star of the game — crappy refs. What’s new? Phantom calls against both teams.

So, we look better vs MSU than Emp. St and Washburn. Works for me.

If Dedric scores 20 per, Doke can be a consistent scoring force inside, and Vick has the kind of offensive season many of us hope/expect, then the Garrett discussion is much different. Garrett can be the perfect compliment. But on an offensively challenged team, he could be an anchor. I like the point about him driving from @BeddieKU23 -- I want him to look for that and be aggressive with it.

@BeddieKU23 Just reacting to the link above .. and we all know in early season games, Self may start guys who have been there for a few games anyway. I guess with this team, I'm just concerned if Garrett is a high minutes guy (with this team) if he continues to be so poor scoring-wise.

Seeing that Garrett is starting concerns me. This team is not athletic. And I was concerned, quite frankly, that we looked pretty pedestrian vs. Washburn. We have a lot of talent -- but we will need scoring. Garrett may have worked on his shot, but it is still horrible. Last year, I think Garrett on the floor helped given the composition of our team, and how we were scoring. This season, my first impression is that Garrett may be a net liability. First impressions off of two exhibition games.

Of course, it is the minutes that matter. So we'll see how much everyone plays.

@Wigs2 Ok, I said “on the horizon” and you seemed to discount that possibility. I think we all agree nothing willl be “sudden.”

I never like margin of victory to judge BB. Too many ebbs and flows. Pretty meaningless related to how good a team is. In fact, winning close games, and knowing how to win close games, is more important come tourney time than whether you've blown teams out.

This element probably helps the mid-majors most, because a good mid-major playing a lesser schedule can get better margins.

I think this would challenge the view that Brannen Greene dunking at the end was a poor choice. I don't care for a rule that would change the dynamic of basic sportsmanship. If a team would otherwise hold the ball, and not tack on points, why inspire it?

@BShark Exactly. The longer the game, the more likely the better team wins. Further, the flexbone is a preparation nightmare not just because of the run focus, but the nature of how the run plays develop (significant misdirection and different angles of attack) and play action passing. Much different than the more conventional run focus by a team like KSU.

@JayHawkFanToo It appears we might have been better off paying the coaches this season to NOT coach as well ....

@Wigs2 Beatty had four seasons. It's his baby. He ran the show, and chose the wrong path. He didn't get the athletes here for the system he chose to run.

The key is the right coach. I do think success can be achieved here. It's been proven. It seems wildly pessimistic to think it can't when there is clear evidence that it can. Further, "success" is relative. I'm suggesting we can be what Iowa St. has been. Or even KSU or OSU. Again, we've proven before that we can be that good.

I've said this before, and said this before Keegan did a full column on it, one path to respectability is to run the flexbone like GT, or Army, etc. It will not win you a national title, it won't likely get you to some respectable bowl game, but you'll win. And you'll get to (less respectable) bowl games. That is what I think Beatty should have done. Beatty tried to run a system offensively that he was sorely undermanned to operate successfully. It's his fault.

But with a new coach coming in, and hopefully better recruiting, there may be better paths than the flexbone. But I can assure you this, if we can't recruit much better, running the flexbone is really the only option to increase success.

@kjayhawks I get you’re point. But you know how you fire a guy before the season? You walk in and say, “You’re fired. Get out.” And you appoint the best assistant as interim coach. I think we would have had a better chance without Beatty. But who cares now? I don’t. I’m just excited that this is happening.

So you’re saying KU will get another #1 seed?

Good info.

This was a foregone conclusion when Long was hired. Just a complete waste of time to have kept Beatty this season. Beatty couldn’t recruit to fit what he wanted to do. We have zero commitments (one?). This was an unnecessary waste of a year. Beatty was another disaster. Success is on the horizon though.

@BShark The age thing doesn't concern me. Folks don't peak at 22 (in BB at least). But feet don't get magically get quicker, and legs don't magically free up and change. Skill development is the hope here.

@KUSTEVE The KY comparison is as close as we might get, but KY seemed quicker laterally. Mario Little was my first thought.

Remember when AWIII left? One knock was his lateral quickness vs. Greene. AWIII is quicker side to side than KJ -- at least it appears that way. Creating some skill that stands out is the challenge, because he is mile wide, and inch deep, as @JayHawkFanToo referenced.

I still like the guy and the way he looks on the court. Seems long. We'll see.

@Kcmatt7 Or, in other words, he ain’t that athletic. Stiff. Looks like a guy that needs more time.

@JayHawkFanToo I would not be so sure that this will come down to money. Integrity continues to mean something, though to a lesser extent than some may prefer. If he's a liar and a cheat, I think that combo will be lethal to his career at AZ. I tend to think you can get by just being a cheat, but if you lie about it, that's a huge consideration.

@mayjay Self has referred to the trials next spring as the point behind why he wouldn't/couldn't talk more. I don't know if there is some unwritten NCAA rule. I'm not aware of some written NCAA rule. It's of course wise not tot talk, you might say something stupid or that could be misinterpreted.

But if true, Self's clear denial is admirable and warranted. It not true, I'm not so sure anything he can say within that context (denials) can cause more damage.

Don't underestimate the Ivory Tower folks.

The "we can't talk now" stuff by KU is baloney. What can't they talk about?

Self already claimed they have no knowledge of any inducements provided by third parties. If true, that is a blanket denial that covers everything.

I've always like the idea of something called the Big 6, the top programs historically - KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Indiana, and Kentucky. That way UNC wouldn't have to play Duke. But hard to squeeze three games into an evening. And they won't do a Saturday or Sunday vs. football.

@JayHawkFanToo Yes, I understood your point, which you have reiterated. My point was a separate point, which is a reason why none of that may matter regarding KU's culpability. Emphasis on may, as I don't know.

@JayHawkFanToo Right, but in this deal where they try to provide the coach deniability, as everyone seems to think, it would make great sense for the Adidas rep (or any shoe company rep) to make it appear to the player/parent/guardian that the coach doesn't know. That limits the number of squealers that could implicate the coach. That fits right with how all this was supposedly handled. So the discussions from Gassnola's end don't really matter much. He was the main line in the "plausible deniability" defense. But, of course, I don't know. It would just fit under what has transpired, particularly the interactions on DeSousa.

@Kcmatt7 We've been disagreeing a lot lately, but not here -- "Most of that confirmed what I thought. Slim pickings left. My worst fear is landing another Landen Lucas." Right on point.

@Crimsonorblue22 We do sometimes forget that just because they are very good at basketball doesn't change the fact that they are just kids (or very young, many times immature, adults). Most kids do what their parents ask.

@Kcmatt7 Why would you bring up firing Bill Self? Do you hate Bill Self? What do you have against him?

Sorry .. just funny to me.

@Kcmatt7 if Self knew he was paid, yes. If not, then no. If it was wink, wink, yea, we don't know the detail, but yea, we know he got something to come to KU from a third party. Yes, Self is at fault. 100%.

@mayjay Ok, I just didn't recall hearing of the eligibility issue being known prior to the infamous fender bender. I thought it was as a result of KU's investigation after Der Fender Bender (a former ride at World's Fun, back in the day).

@BeddieKU23 Wow, I never heard that on Preston .. that he was never deemed eligible by the NCCA. Why would we have played him in the MU thing then? That really doesn't add up to me. Why would the car thing be used as cover? Why do we need dishonest "cover?"

I don't think KU is clear. It goes to the knowledge of the payment to Preston (his mom, or whoever). If KU coaches knew of the payment, presumably didn't tell the Administration (AD), then a question arose, everyone then did a pow wow and concluded to hold him out, and we held him out, that doesn't clear the coaches.

@mayjay I agree 100% It is really odd to me that there has been very little flow of information. Friends, family, girlfriends, runners, etc. It would make the mafia proud.

I'm starting to think there is another layer of enforcers that none of us know about. The guys that break legs and burn things down if you open your mouth, perhaps paid from a deduction from all head coaches' pay checks. Labeled POCAAAC. Protect our collective a**es at all costs.

@BShark Thus my qualification on Wiggins and Josh.

So what is the word on what they were getting, "absolute top guys" or not?

Reading some of the last posts here.

Just last week Self said he had no knowledge of inducements provided by third parties. But we certainly have a lot here who seem to have that knowledge.

Since Self won't tell us, what are our top guys getting? Wiggins, Embiid, Selden, Jackson, Doke .. anyone? Wiggins and Josh were "absolute top guys."

And remember, simply because Preston was shut down after the car wreck thing doesn't mean Self didn't know about the $90,000. When the info reaches the compliance department, that changes the game.

I think the guy that clearly looked the worst was Doke. Watched the game again ... he seemed completely out of sync the entire night. Almost like he needed to be a bit more deliberate. The amount of panic he showed when doubled was surprising, because in the past, he's handled that ok. But that can be a point of emphasis now in practice. Still, the guy I'm most excited about is Vick. He'll be our best three point shooter, I think, by both percentage and volume. Trusting that coming back in the manner he did has him laser focused.

Odd, but I just noticed that Carlton Bragg is at New Mexico. I guess I missed that.

@Crimsonorblue22 You probably aren't the only one. But boy, it is hard for me as well. He's sounds like that rich country club fellow talking about polo, the fall mixer, and his days a Yale.

@Crimsonorblue22 Probably not well enough to have a mediocre scoring game. But I like having Dedric instead of less rangy guys. And I think KJ would cause some issues on the perimeter if he's in the PT mix. Doke can't hang in that environment, assuming it's similar to Nova last season. Dedric, DeSousa, KJ, Grimes, Dotson, with some Vick mixed in, would be a nice group vs. a Nova-like team. That's an opinion on one game vs. ESU, though.

I'd have to say for the first game I was totally pleased.

-We have the one dominant guy. Dedric is terrific.

-Mitch looked confident from 3 with a nice stroke.

-Moore looked better than I expected.

-Dotson/Grimes are the real deal.

-Garrett's shot still looks horrible, but he seemed pretty good with the ball.

-Vick will ebb and flow as a shooter does. But I think the high flying, grab the lob and slam stuff is coming.

-Doke will be effective sometimes, and sometimes not. ESU just did the hard trap on the block ala SDSU when we lost at home. Good strategy.

-McCormack just needs PT and practice. Like many guys we've seen.

Truthfully, I saw nothing really to be concerned about given the absolute wealth of talent at all times on the floor. The only guy we would take a dramatic turn downward, if we lost him, would be Dedric.

And we don't even have DeSousa.

This is an incredible group of talent.

@JayHawkFanToo Uh, the best it gets is no prison with an agreement on sentencing.

@BShark I think being in prison or a minimum security federal site is a bigger issue for an individual than you suggest. I wouldn't volunteer. Doubt you would. If fact, I bet we'd both talk a bit to avoid it. You lose a portion of your life going to prison. Folks talk to stay out of that situation.

No one should make the assumption that what we see there at the link, that was the evidence at the trial, is all the evidence that the prosecutor has. The prosecutor could easily have additional evidence he strategically chose not to use. The prosecutor only has to turn over exculpatory evidence.

I'm not suggesting this to be true, just that I would not be surprised if the alleged technical errors in the recording with Self were magically resolved at some point. I don't trust this at all. Not expecting it. But it wouldn't shock me.

If this is all they have, combined with the texts we know about, then the only thing Self has to fear are the squealers. And even then, there would need to be some sort of paper (electronic) trail I would think for a charge to be filed. The squealers could have their own "evidence." Ugh. However, I would think that squealers might have already tried to use that evidence given their case theory. Lots of unknowns.

@Kcmatt7 I really hate to belabor this. But his statement is unequivocal. There no room for winks or grey areas in the statement I quoted.

@Kcmatt7 I guess it's hard for me to see any vagueness in his statement. This is about as clear a denial as he could make.

@Kcmatt7 I think the text reads differently. He didn't leave room to wiggle.

Bill Self went all in - "When recruiting prospective student-athletes, my staff and I have not and do not offer improper inducements to them or their families to influence their college decisions, nor are we aware of any third-party involvement to do so."

The last part is obviously the most significant. He said "we." So neither he, nor his staff, have any awareness of any "third party" offering "improper inducements .. to influence their college decisions." This is very broad. And it is very "all in."

Again, I may be too nervous over this, but if the prosecutor has his eye on a prize, and he sees this statement, and perhaps he has a bit more evidence than came out in this recent trial ...

Those discussions were quite lively ...

@mayjay I just included those that were part of the discussion, including those like @cragarhawk and @Crimsonorblue22 that supported the concept. You never mocked integrity. And I never, ever stated or implied that running a clean program was something I would compromise. Ever. I did take issue, as my opinion, that I'm not satisfied when we don't get to FFs and win NCs. I'm not an enjoy the ride guy. But don't confuse that with the "clean" program thing.

Have you actively supported the concept of integrity in your posts? Not saying that means anything, just curious as I don't recall?

Bill Self said, "As the leader of the Kansas men's program, I take pride in my role to operate with integrity and within the NCAA rules, which is my fundamental responsibility of being the head basketball coach."

This is exactly as I have suggested to be his job, and my expectation of Self as the coach.

And my suggestion was mocked. One poster mocked the concept calling me "Mr. Integrity" and likening simple honesty derisively to "Jesus on the cross."

So mock Bill Self. I'm waiting ...

He obviously agrees with me. You see that word "integrity" he mentioned? That important word that he used?

I'm sorry, where did you hear that word? That "integrity" word? Anyone?

And following rules, as he stated? As being his "fundamental responsibility"?

Try twisting that into something warped.

Further, how many here have professed that all CBB is dirty, that you have to be dirty to survive, that demanding integrity is asinine, that the entire thing is crooked, that everyone pays players, that how could we expect to recruit and make FFs if we didn't cheat? That has been the constant drumbeat around here.

Self's comments fly in the face of that logic, it would appear.

Self has gone all in from his end. He says he's clean. He says that his program is clean.

Now, of course, the issue is, "what is the truth"?

@BShark @KUSteve @Kcmatt7 @mayjay @Woodrow @cragarhawk @Crimsonorblue22 @kjayhawks @KirkIsMyHinrich

Ah, no Adidas and KU here.

Darius Bazley, the number 13 player in the class of 2018, chose not to go to college. Instead, he took a $1 million paid "internship" with New Balance. See the link below.

Bazley initially said he was skipping to go to the G-League. Now, he's skipping the G-League and taking the money.

Good for him. He has earned it. He is entitled to make a living. It's an awesome thing.

And good for New Balance.

The title of the article is wildly misleading (though it's simply a quote from the agent). It is not a product of a broken system. The only system that could pay this guy $1 million for the 2018-19 season is a professional one.

If a system is broken, it's the NBA's policy, made by players and owners, to prohibit the ability of players to play in the league -- prohibiting adults from working solely because of union agreements. The owners want free auditions in CBB. The players protect jobs.

That's the problem.

If the NCAA is to blame, then you have to make the leap completely to professional athletes. There is no middle ground.

Players should be entitled to make a living, but should not be entitled to destroy a business model to suit their desires. No "worker" should. They are free to start their own business. Free to associate to create a better option. And free to work anywhere they want (or should be, anyway).

Here's hoping that this becomes more widespread. This will force the NCAA to focus more on the student-athlete model. For those that love CBB, that's the only path that works. Shoe companies pay like New Balance has here, the NBA changes its rule, and we can get back to CBB. That's the best solution for everyone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25074140/rich-paul-darius-bazley-1-million-internship-result-broken-system ↗

@JayHawkFanToo KU was the "victim", not the coaches or individuals .. in the indictment. There were not "victims" (plural) when it came to KU. The indictment referred only to "universities" as the parties defrauded.

So, remember my position. How could KU be the victim if it was participating? I think the defense tried that strategy and lost, arguing that its employees knew.

That strategy loses if the "victim" was the school. The entity. Not its employees. I wonder if that carried the day?

This is worrisome to me. Prosecutors that look for headlines are a concerning bunch.