Top recruits know that all programs pay, maybe not directly but indirectly via shoecos, runners or boosters. They also know that if one falls all fall; I would not think they would be too concerned about it. The only thing would be if, because of the recent attention and exposure, Adidas is on a freeze of sorts and not doling out cash like the others.
JayHawkFanToo
13427 posts
They must be looking at past WSU teams. This year's version is depleted and will not do that well. Marshall must really like WSU or else should have left when his teams were hot...after the upcoming season his stock will not be that high, although he might surprise.
This season KU has a "perfect storm" kind of team with the right combination of experience, talent and depth and it would be difficult to match so, in that respect, it will be a let down regardless of who KU gets.
The entire series ↗ is very interesting and gives a complete view of Hernandez and his life and tragic death.
KU is past taking unproven assistant coaches to see if they can revive the football program.
If KU is serious about football it needs a coach with proven record of success...cheaper to pay for a quality coach rather than paying salaries former coaches that did not work out.
If you have a chance, read the Boston Globe 6-part story on Aaron Hernandez, it will give you a different and very negative view of Urban Meyers.
KSU will be really good this upcoming season. They beat UK on their way to the Elite 8 and they did it without Wade and they have the entire team coming back. KSU will finish second in the conference and they are a legit top 20 team, maybe even a fringe top 10 team.
BeddieKU23 said:
If the class is Hurt, Zeke, Lawson, McBride & Braun its still a bit disappointing considering the talent they pursued but in time maybe this class would be viewed differently. Hurt is a OAD impact starter. Zeke is a rotation/extremely high upside type.
Considering that every elite program pursues every top prospect, anytime it does not get all the prospects it pursues it would then be considered a failure? The class you mentioned above would not be even a bit of a disappointment and would be a really good class, in my opinion of course.
Here is a summary ↗ of the prosecutor's closing argument at the FBI trial; looks like the Government just cleared KU. If there was a future trial, the opening argument by KU's lawyers would be to quote the closing argument bu the government prosecutors.
The government contends the three men victimized the universities by causing prospects whose families had received improper benefits to provide inaccurate information on NCAA certification forms.
"If the universities had known about the defendants' secret payments, they never would have issued those scholarships, they never would have put themselves in harm's way and risked NCAA penalties, fines and forfeiture of contests," Solowiejczyk said.
Cuonzo Martin gets a good season of players he inherits, gets some good prospects and it does not get better. Next year will be his third year at MU and things will start to go South and he will bolt...book it.
!0_1540219956925_upload-f27f6e98-b782-4a41-b9d3-f7ac7682274a ↗
mayjay said:
@jayballer73 This isn't really a change in topics from fb to booze. I am sure many KU fans have been hitting the hard stuff in droves for years.
...and by the look of things, some of the coaches might have been doing the same.
Wigging is not a bust. Perhaps he has not lived up to the lofty expectations that many have of the top draft pick but he has been a solid player. He was Rookie of the Year and he signed a maxed out contract so his team obviously believes he is that good and worth the money. Butler is a malcontent with a chip on his shoulder who thinks he is better than he really is and believes he has more leverage than he really does and this is why there has not been much interest on him. I imagine most players would not be happy having him as a teammate since he has done what players just will not do, throw teammates by name under the bus publicly. Many veteran players will call out players but it is normally done in private, in the locker room and the few times it is done publicly it is normally a general criticism and specific players are not named.
As you know, most top recruits know each other well and even recruit each other. Sometimes they play together in HS, national teams, tournaments or more often than not in the infamous AAU circuit.
Recruits talk to each other and know what it is going on and what the going rates are. Preston was ranked anywhere from 10 to 20 and if he commanded $90K, I find it hard to believe that the higher ranked recruits would play elsewhere for less or even no money. Recruits seem to flock to UK and Duke knowing that there are players ahead of them and they could be the team's star elsewhere at another elite program and yet they continue going there even when other programs have equally good coaches and facilities...what explanation other than money could there be?
Having said that, I believe that every coach generally knows whats is going on and most maintain a distance from the process to have plausible deniability. Part of the sponsorship package programs sign with apparel firms is the expectation that recruits will be steered to the program with no school formal involvement. Basically it is...I don't want to know what you do and don't tell me and and I will just look the other way and pretend I don't know what is going on.
I imagine most conversations go like this:
- Shoeco XXX: Hello Coach YYY, we have a couple of players Z1 and Z2 in our AAU teams, would your program be interested?
- Coach YYY: Of course we would be interested...
- Shoeco XXX: let's see what we can do.
- Coach YYY: Much appreciated
or...
- Coach YYY, Hello Shoeco XXX. Are you familiar with players Z1 and Z2? I believe they play in AAU teams sponsored by you...
- Shoeco XXX: Of course we are familiar with them, interested?
- Coach YYY: Very much, we would like to have them join our program.
- Shoeco XXX: let's see what we can do.
- Coach YYY: Your help is always appreciated, this is why we have this fat contract with your firm.
The Occam's razor principle of problem solving states that when presented with several solution the simplest one with the least assumptions tends to be the correct one. In this case, the approach presented above appears to be the simplest and easiest to explain.
Nice.👍
My dad liked Johnny Walker Black and Chivas and that is what I grew up with. On special occasions he would bring out the Chivas 18 and on rarer occasions the Chivas 25 which was by far the best I had ever tasted until I had chance to drink the Johnny Walker Blue Label which is something evey one that appreciates good scotch should try at least once...and I am not even much of a scotch drinker. Nowadays I drink mostly wine and hardly ever the hard stuff.
Very interesting take that makes a lot of sense.👍
That is yet to be decided. A serious spanking when Villanova comes to AFH in December will help.
All the prospects know exactly how recruiting works so I don’t believe the current situation will scare them away. Actually, they probably know more about who is getting paid and who is doing the paying than the coaching staffs do.
Woodrow said:
I think Beaty is fired tomorrow or Monday.
It only makes sense. The 2 wins against two very poor teams proved nothing and agains real competition it is back to being a poorly coached team. Might as well officially start the search for a new coach and give him a chance to pick up a few recruits; it is not like KU is going to lose any players if Coach Beaty is let go now.
Let’s call it a new beginning.😉🤫
At this time, the only thing that can possibly hurt KU is the $2,500 sent Silvio and the more likely penalty would be a 2-3 game suspension for Silvio. No way they can trace anything on Preston to KU because there is plenty of evidence that KU did not know what had transpired with his mom and his mom actively coached Billy on how to lie and keep KU in the dark. Same thing with Zion. The fact that he did not end up at KU indicates he did not get money from KU or Adidas and now Duke is the program with the big issue; no way Zion/family suddenly decide to forgo the money and go to Duke without money being involved, no way, no how, no ma’am.
At this time the only allegation against Coach Self (and KT) are statements that were not accepted as evidence during the trial and stated by the defense attorney during his closing argument and while he was not under oath and done solely for the benefit of his client and it is contrary to all testimony given by witnesses under oath.
I don’t believe it would help at all to have a press conference to deny wholly unproved allegations and all it would do is give credence to the allegations.
KU not getting Zion and not playing Preston when it found out about potential irregularities goes a long ways to show KU's desire to follow the rules. Even if SDS's guardian is found to have received $2,500, based on previous cases it is a 2 or 3 game suspension for Silvio at most.
Here is an interesting analysis ↗ on Lightfoot's role for the upcoming season by Matt Tait.
You are assuming the shoecos will play HS kids to got to the G League; I don't think this will be the case. Shoecos pay prospects to to go to certain schools because the programs are the ones that bring the exposure rather than individual players. The G Leagues has been on TV for a while and the actual audience is tiny and so is the TV audience. I just do't think people are going to tune in to see meaningless games in empty arenas the way they tune in to see college games where the games mean something.
The only shoeco that will pay KU big bucks is Adidas since it is pretty much its flagship program. Nike already has big (football >>>>basketball) programs in the Mid West and KU would be just another of the bunch and would not get nearly as much as it gets from Adidas.
Right now, Nike and Duke are starting to feel the heat and it could get a lot hotter for them. Same with Under Armour, remember it was them or intermediaries that allegedly paid Falmagne $60K.
There are not shoecos that are not up to their necks in the same quick sand and one prosecutor away from being in the same situation as Adidas.
There are only so many players the G=League can absorb every year so it is not like we are going to see the top 100 HS prospects going there. Frankly, I just don't think it will have that much influence.
Why should KU dump Adidas?
First, no other shoeco will pay what Adidas pays.
Second, it would be a de facto admission of guilt.
Third, if KU gets NIke or Under Armour we are just trading one crooked firm for another. Would you rather have World Wide Wes instead of Gassnola? They are all the same except, much like the mafia, Nike pays for protection from prosecution and mostly stays above the fray until an Elliot Ness like prosecutor comes along and takes them down.
A couple of interesting notes from the article...
The source outlined a potential defense both the Williamsons and Townsend could make to an NCAA violation allegation: “In the absence of a taped call, Zion’s family will dispute that version. Kurtis Townsend will say the conversation was taken out of context, or that he was not committing to anything, simply trying to keep the fish on the line, so to speak.”
As I indicated, KT has some plausible deniability and some wiggle room and together with the fact that Zion did not come to Kansas would appears to indicate Adidas.KU would not pay.Duke on theo other hand is now in trouble.
The very fact that a current Duke player was named in the federal trial just a day after Hall of Fame coach Mike Krzyzewski declared the ongoing scandal “a blip” and “not what’s happening” in college basketball resonated around the sport. Many administrators, fellow coaches and others in the game were angered by Krzyzewski’s minimization of a federal investigation that has touched programs nationwide and tainted a sport already struggling with a shady reputation. A lot of people found Krzyzewski’s comments not merely naive, but outright disingenuous.
Finally someone calling Coach K.
and...
The NCAA issued a statement to Yahoo Sports on Thursday that made no mention of an enhanced amateurism certification process via its eligibility center. The statement noted that “all student athletes receive an initial academic and amateurism certification. … The Eligibility Center collaborates with its member institutions as needed depending on the facts of the review.” It declined comment on Williamson directly and basically passed the issue back to Duke: “Any specific questions regarding a student-athlete’s review should be directed to the NCAA member school.”
As usual, when it comes to East Coast/ACC schools the NCAA punted.
The next one is from me to the old timers in the Forum...
“The NCAA is so mad at ~~Kentucky~~ Duke it will probably slap another two years probation on Cleveland State.’’ :smile:
Politicians are worse. A friend of mine had a flooring company and one time she was called to the home of a very well connected and wealthy businessman/politician in KCMO and asked to redo the carpeting for a house off Paseo Blvd. in KC where a lot of parties took place, basically around the clock. It was a big house with lots of private rooms and all the floors and most of the walls had shag carpeting and the bar was open 24/7. Heard a lot of stories about the parties and the people and “guests” that attended them.
Knight did not need to cheat, he had plenty of boosters working on the background doing the dirty work to steer kids to Indiana. I would say most coaches maintain a healthy distance to have plausible deniability but they generally know what’s happening even when they are not doing it hands on.
At this point there is nothing really that needs to be done other than perhaps an internal investigation to make sure all rules are followed.
At this time there is zero evidence, other than an off-the-cuff statement by an attorney at closing and not under oath that Coach Self might have known about the $2,500 payment to DeSousa. Even the KT phone conversation does not indicate an intent, indication or desire to pay money but only to do what ever possible to get Zion to KU; hopefully without breaking rules and or laws; obviously KU or Adidas did not pay and Zion, who at one time was a KU lean, ended up at Duke. Duke has the serious problem not KU.
All testimony offered under oath by people that had zero incentive to lie, indicated that KU personnel was not aware of any of the financial dealings.
So, unless someone can come up with some solid and verifiable information of corruption the presumption of innocence should still apply.
Keep in mind that I am the one that posted the Casablanca clip and the analogy of recruiting to making law and sausages so it is not like I don't believe that payments happen all the time, they do. I am just not that naive to think that some elite programs don't do it, they all do it to one extent or another and seems a little sanctimonious to pile up on Coach Self when he is likely one of the cleaner coaches while Coach K gets a pass because his self-professed innocence...give me an effin' break, look at his recent recruiting classes and tell me Duke is not paying...the Zion case alone is an indictment of Coach K and Duke....there is just no way that Zion/family that wanted $100K+ suddenly decide to go to Duke because of the education, even when he will not even be there 2 full semesters.
This is not boy scout land, this is the real world and things don't alwasys work they way we wish they would or should; they work the way they do and it is sink or swim.
Watch the NCAA have a limited, one time amnesty and move on as if nothing happened. Welcome to the real world.
Get well soon, basketball season is almost here :smile:
HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Ok, if KU gets Ms. Preston a job with a local bank, and she's paid $120,000 per year. That's not a violation? Of course, extreme example. But extremes demonstrate the point sometimes.
I am assuming that KU setting a parent up with a job, with a third party, would be a violation of NCAA rules. Do you have info to the contrary?
To the extent you mentioned and if she was wholly unqualified it would or shopuld be a violation since it is clearly a bribe. However, handing her a newspaper with the help wanted adds or giving her a list of jobs that include cashier at HyVee or Return Desk at Home depot or order taker at McDonald's or any other jobs that meet her qualification would certainly not be. In fact, most companies that relocate employees...as an example...will help the family at the new location with jobs for other members, schooling and so on and the school should be able to help families that relocate to watch their kids play. Granted that giving them free apartment or jobs for which they are not qualified would be a clear violation. Remember Reggie Bush? The school wsa heavily penalized for doing just this so it is obvious impermissible.
BTW, to those who mentioned Ronnie Chalmers, he was very well qualified for the position. He has a Bachelor degree in Business Administration, a Master's in human Resource Management and Development, managed Air Force teams and Summer Leagues for many years and was a HS coach for 5 years winning 2 state titles...a good fit for the position he was hired. He was hired after Mario moved to Lawrence, Ronnie retired and decided to move to Lawrence to watch him play...at least this was the offcial story but one that is defensible.
If JRE was/is expecting any type of pay out for selecting a school that is probably not going to happen with KU now, at least not in the current environment where KU need to stay pristine clean. If the jury on the FBI trial comes back quickly with a not guilty verdict things might change.
Feed is back, KSU wins 27-25...rats...😒
Me too...ESPN says commercial break....
Tied at 25...
KU with. Momentum 22-20
KU down 1 point 20-19 in the 4th.
40+ years ago...I had not even been to Kansas; I knew it had to be a long time ago when KSU was pretty good in basketball and sucked in football.
Two K-Staters in the first team; I can't think of 2 Kansas State player being named to the first team in a long time. In their one year together Beasley made first team and was the conference POY but Walker only made All- Big 12 third team.
Too early to tell. The Sixers seem to have most of the pieces in place to be a contender but maybe one player away from being championship caliber. The Celtics will be the team to watch once they get more comfortable. Marcus had a nice game with 16 points, 10 rebounds and 2 steals in 21 minutes. The twins are now the oldest KU players in the NBA; weird not see Collison or Pierce still playing even when Paul has been out one year already. 12 KU players in NBA rosters this season.
Yep. Embiid needs to work on turnovers, 5 is too many, other than that his numbers looked pretty good; Hayward and particularly Irwin looked pretty rusty. The Golden State- OKC game was pretty close until the very end and Westbrook’s did not even play. Pretty sloppy game with poor shooting by both teams, Klay Thompson sporting a full beard and looking meaner and Curry still being his own smug self. Houston might be the team to watch.
Without context it is hard to tell what the gist of the entire conversation was; it is interesting and telling it was not admitted as evidence. In any case, KT never mentions money just says:
"I've got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that's what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we're going to have to do it some way."
He could easily explain it away by saying he was talking about legal, NCAA compliant means rather than cash and because KU/Adidas would not pay Williamson did not come to KU...Duke, on the other hand, now has some 'splaining to do.
Double standard? Absolutely. you indicated that comparing a political statement by Swift who was lauded by the MSM and Hollywood was not the same as a political statement by Kanye who was savaged by the same MSM and Hollywood. If this is not a double standard I don't know what is. BTW, the candidate Swift endorsed lost 8 point since her endorsements and now trails by 14 points and what was a tossup race is now a safe republican seat...so much for that.
Now, Pelosi was not involved much in the process other than peripherally and it was Feinstein who screwed it up. Like I said, if the democrats ...and you...really wanted a more complete investigation they should have acted way ahead of time on the information they had at hand instead of holding on for 6 weeks and waiting until the day before the vote to bring it out and once the FBI did the aditional investigation they tried to have it classified so no one would see the results. This much is obvious that the strategy was to bring out an accusation and then delay, delay, delay until after the November elections with the hope of capturing the Senate and denying Trump the nomination; there are contemporaneous recordings of democrat strategists saying exactly this (posted link before) and just before the accusation was finally made public. Even liberal Icon Ruth Batter Ginsburg ↗ thought it was highly political show.
"Kathleen Parker, a conservative-leaning columnist for the widely-considered liberal Washington Post, wrote this week that Ginsburg called the Kavanaugh hearings "a highly partisan show," and that the latest tactic from the Democrats is "embarrassing to anyone with a conscience and a grown-up brain."
Democrats have no one to blame but themselves.
Now, if a liberal nominee would have defended him or herself vigorously against uncorroborated accusations, you probably would have applauded and indicated he or she was right to try to clear his or her good name. For every person that believes he was too aggressive I can show you at least one or more that agrees with him.
No question Americans get it and got it. Every poll I have seen afterwards blames the democrats and particularly Feinstein (up to 75%) for the entire fiasco. What a month ago seemed like a certain win for the democrats and control of the senate, now it looks like the republicans will not only maintain the majority but might actually increase it. We will find out soon enough.
Keep in mind that this approach was tried before by the democrats with Bork (when it worked) and then Thomas and now Kavanaugh when it did not work. Recently, the republicans have opposed very liberal candidates like Sotomayor and Kegan, but they did it on ideological grounds,as they should, and did not use character assassination to do it. Good chance that Trump gets to nominate one more justice; it will be interesting to see what the democrats do then.
Would it be better to say citing facts not in evidence? Most of Dr. Ford's testimony was uncorroborated since she did not even remember when or where it happened, how she got where she thinks it happened or how she got home afterwards and her testimony of the events was disputed by ALL the witnesses she named including her best friend. Other portions were also shown to be plain false...lots of information on the subject readily available via a quick Internet search so you don't have to take my word for it.
I am sure you remember what U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart famously said that he could not use words to describe pornography but "I know it when I see it." Likewise, many of us non-lawyers perhaps cannot or should not use legalese to describe a smear campaign or its components but like Justice Stewart...we know it when we see it.
Of course you will disagree but that is OK, I am aware what your idea of double standard is. Amazing how you concentrate on little insignificant details and yet ignore the elephant in the room, no pun intended.
Unverified or uncorraborated information?
You have a very one side view of events and your comparison is a straw man argument. Many on your side have argued that it was not a court of law and it cannot be compared to one.
In any case, in a real court of law the defense attorneys would be objecting to most of what he was asked as it was hearsay and a real judge would caution the prosecutor to move one or risk being held in contempt.
Kavanaugh behavior was not any different to that of many defendants in court that get in shouting matches with prosecutors.
I believe you compared Kavanaughs demeanor with that of Thomas before but they both have different personalities with Thomas being a very reserved individual that would not get excited but his words were every bit as biting as those of Kavanaugh.
Maybe Kavanaugh should have taken a page of the Hillary playbook and proclaimed...What difference at this point does it make? Of curse there was plenty of recent and corroborated evidence that she lied...and people actually died, compared to 36 year old unsubstantiated allegations against Kavanaugh...Hillary got away with it, right?
What am I missing? I just don't see any thing that even resembles any NCAA rule breaking or the law. I would certainly expect Adidas to help KU with recruiting as part of the sponsorship deal. If Adidas is not going to help then why sign with them? I am sure Nike and Under Armour do their best to steer kids in the direction of programs they sponsor and as long as they do not do any thing that breaks NCAA rules or the law, it is all good...why wouldn't it be?
Otto von Bismarck said...Laws are like sausages. Better not to see them being made...which would also seem to apply to recruiting. There is a good deal of action going on that we really don't want to see but it is the reality of recruiting.
IMHO, any P5 team with one loss will go in ahead of UCF, no question about it, a SEC team with two loses might even get in before UCF.
Today, I think Alabama is safely in with Clemson also fairly safe. Ohio State with a win over Michigan is also likely in. I believe Notre Dame is favored in its remaining games so barring a big stumble these are the 4 teams in. Teams like OU and Texas (even WVU) or Michigan would be first in line if they can run the table which are capable of doing. Georgia and LSU have outside shots to make it and if Georgia runs the table and loses a close game to Alabama in the SEC Title game it might get in ahead of UCF.
6-8 teams would have to badly screw up before UCF is considered. The only P5 conference that would not leapfrog UCF is the PAC 12.