@HawkInMizery Photoshop?
mayjay
7180 posts
@Texas-Hawk-10 But Izzo is 0-4 in semifinal in his last 4 FFs. He obviously is taking the wrong approach. Cannot be a coincidence!
Ok, just messin' with you.....
@KUSTEVE said:
@jayballer54 Anyone saying they were embarrassed is an egotistical SOB who has confabulated their self worth with the fortunes of a basketball team.
And, unjustifiably doing so since anyone disowning the team in defeat deserves no hint of the team's success.
@Texas-Hawk-10 There you go with the notion that if something happens 6 out of 9 times it cannot be a coincidence. Why not? The numbers are not overwhelmingly unlikely.
@BigBad If that is you in the right side of the front row, here is an amazing beyond belief fact to consider:
An Indiana player is up for a jump shot, and you are literally the only person in that entire freaking audience whose face contains even a hint of a positive emotion! Many aren't even watching!
@BigBad Akron isn't too far away! How cool would it be if the Zips ever found their way to the top, perhaps having a chance to knock off the Zags?
@FarNrthJHwk said:
could he get an extra year due to a medical hardship like Gonzagas Karnowski did.....
Not eligible for a waiver. Here are the relevant portions of the criteria:
An athlete must not have participated in more than three contests or 30 percent of their season schedule (whichever is greater)..... Karnoski played in 5 for the Zags, so he easily qualified.
Unfortunately, Udoka played in 11 out of 35 games, or about 31.4%. If the NCAA doesn't do rounding, he might have been eligible for one if we had reached the championship (29.72972973%).
@chriz said:
can’t say I’ve actually seen anyone on here calling for his head, doesn’t mean they don’t exist though.
There are a bunch of quotes on an Oregon site.
I started my posting on this board last year with a "why I am a KU fan" thread. In it I explained, among other things, that I could understand disappointment and frustration, but I could not understand anger in our fan reactions to defeats.
Now, I do feel anger when someone has violated some norm of behavior or some higher achievement of stupidity that causes a defeat. I was mad at the twins for arrogantly taunting the VCU players, which I believe was so low-class it helped undercut our aura of invincibility. I was angry at EJ for the junk chop.
Non-KU related, I am angry at any coach who gets a technical at the end of a close game, costing hard-working players their reward due to his ego-fest. Heck, I was angry at that Bills running back who lost his helmet before the Super Bowl, and I don't even care about the Bills--I just wanted to see a good game and hate inanities that threaten it.
But, as to our tourney fate: it is a loss, felt most strongly by those who have participated in it, who have worked so hard yet had dreams dashed so unceremoniously in public. Why the anger? Why act like the players or coach have done something awful to you rather than seeing that their disappointment vastly exceedes your own?
It is not that I don't feel disappointed, but I don't direct that feeling against someone. Do those of you who get so upset that you are angry react differently?
@jayballer54 Yeah, I think you misread @Eric-san's posts or have him confusedvwith others.
@kjayhawks Pls see reply in my Reality check thread!
For @kjayhawks Posting a reply to you over here instead of the Calipari thread.
Your question gave me pause. Why the trouble with one round (EE) more than others?
Okay, no doubt about that: in Bill's 19 tourneys, 2 losses in 64, 5 in 32, 3 in Sw16, 7 in EE, 1 in Championship game, and one tourney with a Championship (no losses).
Please bear with me. Hypothetical: would we be upset so much if by chance Bill's teams had been seeded differently, say 5-8 in most years, so losing in the Sw16 or EE would have been seen as exceeding expectations? Now, I know that we were seeded much higher, but what if? What if we were not viewed by media as an elite team every single year?
I think people would be frustrated about the inability to break through into the elite level, but I also think we would be delighted that he took teams as far as he has with this exact same record.
So, is the problem Bill's coaching? Or is it people's expectations -- which, as I have pointed out many times before, is caused solely by his excellent coaching throughout the regular season?
I happen to think we won a statistically unusually high number of really close games this year, distorting our record, and if a few breaks had gone the other way we would have easily fallen to a 2, 3, or even 4 seed this year. Living on the edge, it was called by many of us, by falling behind and having to come back behind our POY.
Look at what Bill has done in regular seasons, winning those 13 straight (thrice with all new starters), fighting off Nat'l POYs in conference opponents, overcoming NCAA crap, injuries, criminal mischief, family interference, adverse media scrutiny, drugs suspensions.... I call that overachieving.
And overachieving during the year means that you get better seeds, but it is less likely you can perform to them.
More complicated to see it this way than to just fixate on our disappointments, but it is, I think, a much better explanation than some unlikely explanation that HCBS cracks up somehow in the EE but didn't in the F4 where there is so much more pressure.
Bottom line, it is really the NCAA committee's fault for overseeding us, creating a bunch of fans and media members who cannot see past seed numbers to understand how fragile a record for a #1 seed can be.
@FarNrthJHwk Sounds like he was the fertile ground and you found the perfect seed to plant for his potential to sprout and thrive. What a nice feeling it must be to have the memory of that successs.
Of course, there are people here who think saying "Bill just doesn't get his teams up for EE games" is both analytical and dispositive. Any way you can send them off to compose a list of actual solutions? Without kicking #14 off the team, of course, since Bill already tried that last year by getting rid of Brannen Greene, and it didn't work!
@kjayhawks Did EJ bopping the Mich guy reflect our coach? Does a 35 foot shot at the end of that game? All the missed layups vs UCLA or Oregon? The missed FTs in so many games?Does Self get credit for creating schemes that generate the bunny opportunities, or only blame for the misses?
See, it just doesn't make sense to me. KU is not entitled to win any more than other teams are, but this search for blame, besides being undignified and disrespectful, is pointless.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
Self and his staff need to figure out why this is so instead of just going “oh well, we’ll get them next year.”
Here is the thrust of my complaint: you are setting up a straw argument. Yes, Bill needs (as does every coach) to try to figure out how to be more successful.
But, no, there is no evidence that your post contains any information about what he does or doesn't do in accomplishing his job. Yet your last line seems to reflect a sense of triumph that you have it figured out and that he doesn't even try.
Question: overall, how do most teams fare in shooting percentage in the regional finals compared to their regular seasons (not the early rds b/c those are distorted by playing much lower seeds early)? This has to be analyzed over several seasons to control for rules changes, etc, And how well do EE winners perform than losers?
I suspect two things: first, that more often than not, shooting percentages of most teams go down because teams are facing generally better defensive teams as they advance than they likely faced in most regular season games. And second, that more often than not, the winning team has a 5 to 10 FG % advantage over losing teams in the EE game.
There is a common cause if my suspicions are correct: losing teams shoot more poorly than they have done previously.
That does not mean that all those teams have coaches who do not know how to prepare.
@BeddieKU23 Thanks--really to everyone but especially to those of you who seem to have a better knowledge of bb preparation than I do!
@BeddieKU23 said:
It makes you wonder what is really going on? How can the “other” team play so free and yet KU always finds a way to beat itself… I fail to believe the guys were overconfident, we had dogs on this squad. But something was off, from the beginning of the game and we never found the recipe to overcome it.
I bet the fans of almost every losing team feel exactly this way. Everyone always tries to find a cause, or meaning, in events. 67 tourney losers, 67 shattered hopes, countless explanations, but in every single case there is one common factor: both teams tried, but one team tried harder, or at least played better, than the other.
Except for Squeaky's team, which has always tried harder.
@nuleafjhawk I have a feeling he might be busy. I wonder if Zion Williamson will be looking harder at SC now.
@HighEliteMajor said:
This relates to how a coach has his team ready to play on a short turnaround vs. an unfamiliar opponent.
Just a thought about this, because it has been mentioned a lot. Does this reflect a flaw in short-turnaround coaching by Self but his 12-5 record in the second round with that same turnaround does not mean the opposite?
I guess I am not willing to make very firm conclusions or find patterns where these things are based on info so highly selective.
@HighEliteMajor said:
This is not the roulette wheel, or a flip of the coin. It’s basketball. It’s not a game of chance. There is an element of chance/luck to be sure, but it’s just one of many elements.
Absolutely agreed. The variables in bb are much different, and I should have acknowledged that in my post. I was only responding to the posts that expressly said the numbers alone had meaning.
Finding other reasons for losses is different. I happen to think there are different reasons each year, not a single overriding reason that causes Self to "fail." I specifically reject the "pucker" complaint. The players may miss because they try too hard, but the coaches aren't shooting.
For example, this year against Ore we kept feeding it inside despite a shot bocker deluxe having a feeding frenzy. I think we should have slowed down in the first 2 minutes rather than sped up because too many players were hurrying too much. I would have called more plays for Svi, who was their 4th threat to defend. I would have tried two bigs at once just for awhile when Josh went out. I might have pulled Josh in the first half on his first foul because he has a tendency to get too amped and out of control.
Maybe I would have tried all these things and lost by 40. I don't know, however, if Bill tries things and the players don't execute, so I can't say as some have that he doesn't adjust. Sometimes the adjustments don't work.
The fact remains, though, that less than 10 missed shots over 5 EE losses are the difference between this conversation and an entirely different one. And that number can indeed reflect the luck of bouncing balls rather than the coach.
@FarNrthJHwk said:
@mayjay There are no one and dones in this years Final Four.
Not unless the freshman Collins the 7footer from Gonzaga (a role player) takes the leap.
Interesting point, well taken. Maybe you can answer this if you follow prospective OADs: how many teams who were in the tourney have the combo I mentioned, i.e., presumptive OADs at both the 1 and 5?
@KUSTEVE Maybe the NCAA was just an excuse given during this spring's scheduled pest control treatment?
@jaybate-1.0
Add OAD 5 star 1s and 5s together to any team in the tournament and they have a great chance to make a FF.
@HighEliteMajor I remember the conflict over his dad's word. I think at the time I raised the possibility that changed circumstances could lead to Malik leaving without it meaning his dad was acting in bad faith when he said it.
It might depend purely on whether HCBS thinks Newman has a good chance to catch an NBA contract. Bill is pretty adamant that when a player is ready and wants to go, he should go and Bill won't hold him back. I doubt, though, that he could have made that much progress without playing.
I think Newman did the combine thing last year, didn't he? And I thought someone said you can't do it and retain eligibility 2 years in a row, so it seems that there aren't a lot of ways for Malik to explore NBA options other than through his coach.
An unrelated topic for everyone to chime in on: do you think Udoka should attend big man camp this summer? I believe Withey benefited from one, and others have, too, but would it be too much in light of the trip to Italy coming so soon after the wrist injury?
I decided to repost this in a new thread because the "sucked" thread's name really bothers me. I think lots of fans probably won't even read that one, since it is premised on faulty logic designed to find flaws without solutions. So, here is my take on the wholesale attacks on HCBS based on the fact that he has, boo hoo, lost so many games in the Elite 8:
For everyone saying things like, “the 2-5 record speaks for itself” please consider that it is not so unlikely that it is just a statistical outlier. If we had a 50% chance of winning each game, the Self record could have occurred 21 times out of 128. Unlikely, but not impossible. That is about a 1 in 6 chance.
In perhaps more familiar terms, you would have a 1 in 4 chance to flip a coin and come up heads twice in a row, and 1 in 8 for it to be 3 times in a row. So, the statistical probability of this type of record is between that of 2 heads and 3 heads in a row.
Anyone who ever flipped coins knows you can have streaks far greater than 3 in a row without something being wrong with the coin. Same with roulette: people lose really big thinking a black or red streak of 5, 8, or even 10 in a row means something about the wheel’s characteristics.
For anyone to conclude that Bill’s record in EEs is indicative of a flaw is just simple-minded at best and willfully ignorant at worst. Just consider the fact that if we made about 7 more baskets in a total of about 3 tournaments (especially a rifldiculous number of bunnies in a couple years), the record would be reversed (remember, the final scores sometimes reflect desperation fouls at the end).
A wholesale change of coaching philosophy is not mandated by the fact that players miss some shots, or stumble, or make a couple of dumb mistakes.
Lighten up people. Bill’s record reflects more opportunities because of greater coaching ability, not lesser due to unpredictability of outcomes.
For everyone saying things like, "the 2-5 record speaks for itself" please consider that it is not so unlikely that it is just a statistical outlier. If we had a 50% chance of winning each game, the Self record could have occurred 21 times out of 128. Unlikely, but not impossible. That is about a 1 in 6 chance.
In perhaps more familiar terms, you would have a 1 in 4 chance to flip a coin and come up heads twice in a row, and 1 in 8 for it to be 3 times in a row. So, the statistical probability of this type of record is between that of 2 heads and 3 heads in a row.
Anyone who ever flipped coins knows you can have streaks far greater than 3 in a row without something being wrong with the coin. Same with roulette: people lose really big thinking a black or red streak of 5, 8, or even 10 in a row means something about the wheel's characteristics.
For anyone to conclude that Bill's record in EEs is indicative of a flaw is just simple-minded at best and willfully ignorant at worst. Just consider the fact that if we made about 7 more baskets in a total of about 3 tournaments (especially a rifldiculous number of bunnies in a couple years), the record would be reversed (remember, the final scores sometimes reflect desperation fouls at the end).
A wholesale change of coaching philosophy is not mandated by the fact that players miss some shots, or stumble, or make a couple of dumb mistakes.
Lighten up people. Bill's record reflects more opportunities because of greater coaching ability, not lesser due to unpredictability of outcomes.
@kjayhawks Maybe they could make more shots. Or pass the ball better. Obviously the coaches' fault when they succeed for 30 games and lose the last one.
@Eric-san said:
@HawkChamp Do you get rings for making the final four?
When I went to see SC play last year, I was shocked that they had banners up for making the tournament. This year they are entering whole new banner territory with their first EE and FF.
Being here, seeing a team get so excited about making a tourney for the first time in 5 years, winning a game for the first time since 1973, and making their first EE and first FF, makes me appreciate so much more all that we have as KU fans.
@Crimsonorblue22 Maybe 2, based on prior history of failure to exercise self-control.
@wissox Oh, I didn't read the article. I misread you as saying he talked about the two soxes. Forgot you wouldn't be talking about the Cubs. Oooops!:grimacing:
@brooksmd I just assumed everyone was watching! You didn't see the congrats thread to Frank Martin? Or were you hiding in Baseball?
@Crimsonorblue22 Cancelled a Calif trip to meet the gkids at Disney. So I looked at prices for Italy. Very affordable if done privately, but wifey and I are going to start getting new windows instead.
She is a champ, patiently waiting for me to finish projects. Bathrm gets finished this week. But I guess she doesn't want to wait for my learning curve with gaping holes in the walls.
Hope you have a good trip to Chicago, and congrats on that, by the way. You have a lot to be proud of!
@Big-Clyde52 Hope your status continues. My wife has a close friend who has gone through 3 rounds of recurrence after chemo and radiation, with 2 to 3 years clear reports each time.
Sometimes I look at sports as a tool we unconsciously use to channel our sadness and grief from real life into something ultimately not important.
We get to express our anger, our frustration, and our disappointment. That is a huge release of pent-up emotion. But if we are stable and healthy, we can then realize how minor an issue a game is, and then set it mostly aside. And that becomes a second huge release of emotional baggage.
Of course, we have seen several people who don't seem able to do that!
@Crimsonorblue22 Are you going to Roma?
Well, I remember when SC tied for the SEC lead I predicted a second weekend in the tourney. Then after the quadruple OT loss to Alabama during their swoon, I backed away. Good thing Frank and his guys didn't lose faith!
@Eric-san said:
I was actually shocked to see JJ come back in with 10 minutes left. I thought Vick played just fine up to that point.
I thought so, too, but then it occurred to me that Vick usually subs when someone needs a rest. DC was in for Lucas, so Josh had to come in to give Svi and Vick a rest. And Svi did come back with some energy esp on defense.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
reality is Self has sucked in the Elite 8 with his 2-7 record
Have you ever thought that the record, and the high seedings, might reflect Self's ability to take good teams higher than they might have deserved, rather than underachieving once there?
@Eric-san And how about Izzo?
@Texas-Hawk-10 You don't talk to yourself? (Sometimes I am the only one who understands me!)
I wonder if Altman and HCBS are friends. If so, there may a hidden undercurrent to this.
I like the idea of the KU players all flapping their arms as they go out to the opening tip. Crack up the crowd, relieve a bit of tension.
And, on a serious note, if this gets under our guys' skins enough to cause any motivation, then Altman has accomplished creating exactly the kind of distraction he probably intended.
I think y'all taking this a mite too seriously. Really upset because Altman resurrected the KSt side of the rivalry?
"MOMMY! Someone called my team a name!"
"Sticks and stones, little one, sticks and stones....."
@drgnslayr said:
My question; why didn't these UK fans pay their electric bill?
Somebody just hit a switch. They aren't as smart as Charles Barkley and don't know how to turn it on again.
I'd invite them in and enjoy sharing the KU victory with them. Actually, I lied--they would be required to have Diet Coke for me.
@globaljaybird Both coaches!
@JayHawkFanToo said:
It was tongue in cheek parody.
But he is such an idiot, parody doesn't work: he could easily have said that!
Kind of like the fake commercials on SNL: my wife and I have trouble telling them from the hysterically awful regular commercials that run all the time in late night TV.