I don't think Oubre can keep up with him As Beddie said, I don't see Oubre fight through screens the way he would need to to keep up with the ultra-active Forte. If you recall the dude doesn't tire. He will run non stop and Oubre is foul prone as it is.
Blown
1803 posts
@jaybate-1.0 said:
ISU: The Paul and Eileen Snouteater Meaningless Iowa Caucaus Basketball Coach.
Nice early morning, chuckle, here.
Speaking of Lurkers--I've stayed busy and off KUBUCKETS all summer, but I still have never seen a Oakville/Tony Bandle or an Alohahawk post. Did we lose those guys? I see Tony posting at KUSchwarz.com
@twocoach said:
http://www.mavs.com/nba-introduces-next-level-analytics-with-sportvu/ ↗
Thanks, as it were, I'm decades behind an invention. One of these days I'll be on the front end of one!!
Nice Post HEM--Though I agree with the post, I found it interesting that Self brought Mickelson & Lucas in to get some 'work' in. Maybe that was his way of being courteous to Tubby without telling the team to slow down.
What I was most impressed with about yesterdays game was that the team stepped on the pedal and continued to step on their throat. As far as I can recall, it has been a while that Kansas built an early advantage and didn't let off and play to the opponent in the second half. That is a great character trait for a team to have if they can build on it.
@jaybate-1.0 Do you know if there is software existing today that can monitor body movement on a basketball court and translate it into useful data?
No way (in my mind) was the "Kentucky" blip an accident. Sign of classless immaturity in my opinion. If he does that to Kansas, as Cliff did with the hats, we would all be talking $*^% on the kid. Kids are getting way too much attention. Self will make him a better person, that part is certain.
Signed,
Curmudgeon Who also made mistakes when he was 18.
@BeddieKU23 I sensed urgency in their crisp and deliberate passing for the first time this year, so that was nice to see. But I think the season high in assists has more to do with the zone defense they were playing against than anything else.
@Lulufulu I think Bill's toughening box is breaking him down. His body language has changed so much the last 4-5 games.
The locker room ideology among this team, as conveyed and promoted by Self, has Perry at the top of the leadership hierarchy. The reality is that he is not a leader and he isn't THE natural leader of this team. Dealing with this and that he isn't living up to his own expectations along with Self's beatdowns in practice is getting to him, imo.
@HighEliteMajor So sorry for the imposition, let me invite myself to this conversation! Evolution begins at the level of the individual, imho, so I think Self is failing on a Micro level. He isn't failing, per se, but if he doesn't continue to make changes and evolve with the game I expect him to slowly fall from the top five coaches in College. He developed a system that works, and works extremely well with experienced players who have had time in the system. Now, he needs to be able to adjust to a system that takes less repetition for the talent to learn. I believe he will do it if he still has the gumption for the game that he did 10 years ago.
Fun Stats Game: Pick your point guard based on Statistics only:
Player 1
13 Games Played (14-15)
33.3 Minutes
12.4 Points
3.8 Rebounds
4.2 APG
1.7 SPG
0.3 BPG
2.2 T/O
.491 FG
.846 FT
.514 3PT%
Player 2
39 Games Played (12-13)
35.3 Minutes
18.6 Points
3.2 Rebounds
6.7 APG
1.6 SPG
0.5 BPG
2.2 T/O
.463 FG
.801 FT
.384 3PT%
Who would you pick and who do you think the players might be?
I saw the game as the first chink in their armor. Looking forward to see how the egos respond amidst adversity.
@VailHawk What's up with the Avatar?
@jaybate-1.0 How pleasant to see the civility in your rebuttal :)
Kansas handled The four guard line up with a traditional Five man the last two years. I like their chances even better now that their personnel matches up better with Transfer U.
Oui, Oui, se puede.
Why wouldn't one just switch to Nike or Under Armour if it give you the competitive advantage?
@jaybate-1.0 this is the first article I've seen written about this, yet you have been talking about the shoeopoly for several years now. We're there other things written, or was this just keen insight on your part ? I remember some called it a "conspiracy theory" but you Were spot on.
As long as Self demands to use his system vs adapting to his talent, he'll be second fiddle to Calipari. Self is trying to have the best of both worlds. It's not working. Selfs team must learn to operate a tank to kill a rabbit when Calipari knows all you need to do is send five guys armed with M-16's and let 'em go. Sick 'em!!
Experience lost to young talent in 2012 two times.
Young talent trying to learn to operate a tank got blasted by young talent with semi-autos in 2014.
The game has changed. I hope Self get's on board. He needs a new offensive philosophy.
Though your comment appears in jest or tongue & cheek, I'm thinking Marshall will be offered the Indiana job if Crean doesn't get it going.
I was thinking the same thing about squeaky the last weak or so. He is setting a precedent for taking programs from the black to the red.
Well, I was looking forward to watching the game. Living in Dish country, and having not changed over to Cox yet I am relegated to watching the re-run on espn3.com. I listened to the game on 610, albeit, while horsing around with my little guys, and it didn't sound like the game was played that poorly. Maybe I will not watch it after all.
HEM, I love that you have not given up on their chances, but I cannot say the same for my expectations. I will be surprised if this teams wins any more than than a tie for the Big12 Championship and two games in the tournament
If Bill's coaching was as bad as JB alludes to, my deepest concerns lie with him as a coach, and not with this year's team winning a national championship. I think Bill is losing his coaching edge and has been the last two years. Blasphemy, right? I'm not calling for his head, I'm just recognizing he just might be on the back nine of his career. Now maybe we see more 24-8 teams and less 31-2 type seasons.
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Thanks, I enjoyed the response. I agree the season hinges on outside shooting. I'm not seeing them make up any ground in transition 0 either and I would have anticipated this team would excel at transition scoring.
If you convert your variables to all three point shots, there has to be an assumption that other variables would not hold constant-i.e., offensive & defensive rebounds off of those shots, which in-turn, disrupts your hypothesis, right?
Last years Kansas squad had 11 players who shot above 60% at the rim. This years team has two players shooting 60% or more on shots at the rim: Cliff is shooting 60% and Mickelson is at 75%.
This speaks to the fact this team is going to depend on the long ball to win games. If they are not shooting above average % on mid range and long ball shots, the odds of them winning decreases substantially. I just cannot see that much improvement transpiring in the low post scoring options this season, so I am ready to embrace the wild ride of a jump shooting team.
Kentucky has responded to losing in the NIT to Robert Morris with a trip to the championship game and likely a second National Championship in four years. Why would you be concerned if we lost to Robert Morris in the NIT?
wissox--You detective, you :) It was half time in my time (dvr) and went outside for a moment. I checked the phone and saw it was 63-40 mid-way through the 2nd half. My assumption at that point was the shooting turned south--knowing we couldn't have established any inside presence. This team goes how it's shooting goes as long as we have OneMovePerry in the post and the green version of Clifford the Big Red Dog.
A quick review of espn.com statistics shows that this team is assisting about 25% less than any other team in the Bill Self Era. Most teams assist at a rate of 16-18 apg. This team is currently at 12 apg. I am curious if this is a result of not sharing on the perimeter or not getting the entry pass in for an easy 2 and an assist.
Yes, I accepted this sad reality last night when I turned the game off at half time.
This team is going to be as successful night in and night out as their accuracy and volume from distance allows them to.
I am convinced that by seasons end Cliff will be able to hold his spot on the block, and we will win a game or two in the tournament. The journey there is going to be full of ups and downs because right now we don't have a big that can seal and hold long enough to get an entry pass from the wing. This is a staple of Bill's offense--ball reversals to entry pass from the wing.
I was first beginning to think that we didn't have a guy that could get the entry pass in (remember how well BStar was able to accomplish this and feed the twins). Then after watching a few games, I have realized that we just don't have a big who can control the space.
As a complete aside--I sense that this team has horrible chemistry issues--or they don't have any chemistry at all.
Is all the ball catching up with these kids earlier now? Year around ball, AAU circuits, etc. Interesting. I wonder if we will see a trend in this moving forward.
Bill mentioned the other day that the reality is that he is going to play 32-33 minutes a game and they will hold back on him in practice. I personally think this is going to benefit Svi & Oubre greatly. They are going to get more reps in practice as a result of Frank taking less, and Selden shifting to get reps at the 1.
Self has a track record of playing his main ball handlers 32-33 mpg. I expect we'll continue to see the same with Mason.
I really enjoyed the post, JB. Thanks for sharing.
Nice posts. I had something typed up similar to these thoughts yesterday morning, but there was so much vitriol that I just deleted it.
I wanted to believe for a few minutes that Self was letting these guys learn a lesson that they could not win playing it "their way." Their way was selfish and based on individual performance. But the more I thought about it, I know Self's ego would never take a loss like that, learning lesson or not.
And judging through cameras & a thousand miles away, I thought Self perceived the pre-game mishap with Cal as a dis. I think it embarrassed him and he never snapped out of it. That's a long-shot, presupposition, but just my read on it.
"@bskeet no KU isn't that bad and yes UK is that good. No Cal isn't a better coach than Self. A guy off the street could coach this UK team"
You have to be kidding. Give Cal his credit. He is doing what Self dreams of doing. Getting the elite talent to buy into a system. Losing to Robert Morris was the best thing that could ever happen to Kentucky. He is able to point to that season and say "regardless of how talented you are, you still have to play as a team."
In six years Cal has 3 final fours, and two trips to the NC game. Self has not even accomplished that in 12 years at Kansas. Until the numbers play out differently, Cal is every bit of the Coach Self is when it comes to winning games. Do you want to question his character, and compare who the better 'person' is? That's fine. But with the coaching, the proof is in the pudding. I still want Self at Kansas because I believe in how much he improves the person; and that is more important to me than wins and losses and National Championships. But for most people at this level, it is about winning.
As far as the game goes, I don't think there is much to say. Kentucky is a better team, with superior individuals. And they were better coached last night. Self didn't make any adjustments. I don't know that making adjustments would have mattered anyway, unless the ball started going through the net from deep.
The development of Devonte, Svi, & Oubre will determine how successful of a season the Hawks have. As long as Mason is running the point, I don't see this team improving much.
Yikes, tough read for the first week back on the job! Nice to see the Pyscho-Econo-Marketing prose from you, Sir :)
Been gone way too long. Hope to figure the format out, and looking forward to a fun season.
@dylans Good point. I would have to agree.
@HEM Just returned from a very long, grueling, sun-filled vacation. My brain is mush. I realized I said "start" later on and knew you'd call me on it :)
Your logic is much better than mine on the "why" they transferred later.
My opinion: Naadir had one foot out the door in January/February. Something just was not right with him. I could see it all over his face when I saw him the Fieldhouse. We also got a taste of his inner agony with his play, too. Then he acted out with "The Selfie" The timing of Naa's departure was a culmination of his poor decision making, his homesickness, and knowing he barely kept his job last year and Davonte was coming in. I do agree with you that Graham played a part in his decision.
Re Andrew: I thought back in April and early May we would get the announcement from AWIII close to, or around the week of finals. I didn't think he would want to announce right away, and deal with all of the stuff on campus for six weeks. He had already been fielding questions on it dating back to February and it was wearing on him. He could barely contain himself in the Jesse Newell interview. AWIII decision was more impacted by his knowledge that Greene is better than he is, and he would have been fighting an uphill battle against Greene AND Oubre.
These articles always use catchy words like: The next Manu Ginnobli or Immediate Impact guy, which sends the readers into an expectation setting frenzy. I've been reading the boards closely now for sometime, and it happens year after year. We believe in the hype too much and start giving away "starting roles" based on the hype. Look how long it took immediate impact, best player in the last ten years to actually impact the game? Maybe people have quickly forgotten that Andrew really wasn't an "immediate impact" guy. He grew into it, and still left a lot to be desired.
The reason my opinion is that he will not play over Greene is simple. Self's system requires experience, defensive toughness/quickness and a toughening box to excel, and equally important, as we saw with the Brady Morningstar effect: One must be able to pass it inside from the perimeter to initiate Bill's offense. Brannen has already been through the toughening box, as well as being exposed to DI speed and court spacing. I expect a HUGE jump in his performance this year.
Bill is a fine wordsmith. He likes to use "immediate impact" loosely. If I recall correctly, Tarik was an Immediate impact guy, but Embiid wasn't labeled as such. That ended up being reversed. This is a good way to help a kid feel good about their decision to choose Kansas but at the same time, not declare him a starter over current roster players. He also likes the phrase "there is nobody in the country better" or similar expressions. He won't say "the best" but he will say he doesn't know of anybody better. He chooses his words very, very well.
With your scenario:
Mason/Frankamp
Selden/Oubre
Greene/Svi
Ellis/Traylor/Mickelson/Lucas
The real battle for that 8th position is between Svi & Oubre, imho. Lucas, once again, odd man out
Svi will not start over Greene. Neither would AWIII. AWIII saw both Greene and Oubre ahead of him, and I doubt very much he knew about this news before anybody else.
Simple. Adjust. He doesn't adjust. He's stubborn to a fault. He wins 8/10 games with his strategy, so from a stastical vantage point he is always going to play his "percentages". Personally, I think Bill is a great coach, but the tourney is more about adjusting due to the varying matchup styles that quickly present themselves on short turnaround. We hear it a lot " we are gonna show up and play OUR game". No, show up and play THE game that you are in. B
Far, far, and away the worst perspective and opinion I have read on this forum from somebody i truly respect and appreciate. This post reeks of selfish ego, cynicism, and is a direct result of being spoiled by this programs successes. You know it really pisses me off when Kansas plays down to their competition thinking they have a leg up because of the name on the jersey. Yet, here you are thinking we should show up to a 64 team tournament and win it because "we are Kansas" ? Come on, get real. It's up to us, the educated basketball fan base that we are, to evaluate our team and set new expectations. Thinking a team should perform a certain way, year after year, regardless of the personnel is a completely rigid and unfair thought process. If your son was on this team, would there still be "no success"? I coach all youth sports
, and have for 10 years in my community. We have a handful of championships but very few compared to our opportunities. Should I tell my kids there was no "success" in their year because they didnt win the last game. Would you tell the kids you coach this and believe it? By the way you never defined success, nor why it "means more". Is it because the media aggrandizes the event to capitalize on it monetarily?
My definition of success is happiness. And no, I'm not happy with my hawks all of the time, and more often than not sad at the end of each year. But when I look at the seasons, I look at them holistically. Not rigidly with no change in expectations.
Sorry for horrible grammar on mobile device.
I believe that it is inevitable that Joel is going to go. there are a couple of good reasons that leads to delay the announcement. The longer he delays the more people talk about him And and up the excitement about his decision. The moment he announces they have to move on to a new topic to talk about. Also if you get the impression that he is really considering coming back to college in maybe the NBA front offices will think is injury is not that big of a deal.
I know we weren't in the mix really but I always thought Nick Johnson would have impacted the program immensely from the point guard spot.
Experience.
@Wigs2 I'm not going to say your theory is wrong, because we have no way to prove it. But I think you are making a big leap and projecting "what would happen." My sentiments are solely based on what IS happening. You are stuck on the top 15 players being full of Glory because that is what the media has sold you.
Also--you said "In 2014 or 2015, the NBA decides to change the rule to make it two-and-done (or three-and-done). Self is going to have a difficult--if not impossible--task of convincing the best talent that it would be to the recruit's advantage to come to Kansas."
If the NBA does change the rule, there is going to be a natural decline in Self bringing in OAD for the simple fact that their current players would be staying 2-3 years as you suggested.
Do you think we get Wiggs if McLemore has to stay 2-3 years? Do we get Oubre if Wiggs has to stay 2-3 years? The answer is no. So regardless, we will see a decrease in OAD's signed at schools. Kentucky isn't going to keep reeling in the #1 class if the incoming freshmen KNOW they have little to no shot at seeing the court until they are in year two or three.
@Wigs2 Every title at Kansas has been won by 2-4 year players.
P.S. This is KANSAS. We will ALWAYS have our foot in the door on 90% of high level recruits.
@Crimsonorblue22 Yep, agreed. I believe we can win at a high level with 3-4 year players. This year more than any, imho, has shown the importance of experience in the NCAA tourney also.
I always want to recruit these best.
@Crimsonorblue22 I'm getting to the point where I don't want to recruit the best talent. Leave the top 10-15 alone and develop 16-100. The egocentric, me first mentality of the prima donna age of the freshman has me tiring of the game. More than anything, I get satisfaction out of witnessing (or participating) in the development of people. If I wanted to be a fan of basketball that has the 'best of the best' then I would just watch the crap product the NBA is selling. Let College basketball alone, but it is quickly becoming the NBA. Year after year, I enjoy the season less. I miss watching kids grow en lieu of the publicity ridden media frenzied appetite we have for find the "next" big thing.
Trying to share a couple of photos, but can't seem to figure it out without imgur...
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