🏀 KuBuckets Archive

So... wonder if Grimes is coming back :(

New Zealand breakers

“The year the streak was over” ball... could be some sort of collectible value

Silvio... "I'm so excited to be able to come back to Kansas to play and to continue my education...”

CONTINUE MY EDUCATION... music to my ears... remember he didn’t need to say anything about the education part of his staying at Kansas. someone early on in Silvio’s life must have instilled in him the value of education which he has now internalized... he gets it.

Grimes and family? Apparently education is not on their list

@KUSTEVE

I took your suggestion and edited my post from “good” to “non-delusional” parents

but as a parent, (and I know ther are lots of parents on this site ) I can only say that I know that I would give my son that advice. The info and statistics are out there in plain sight. Parents are supposed to see the big picture and do what’s best for their kids, even when it is at odds with how they feel. And yes I do understand how easy it is to live vicariously thru your kids, especially when they are excellent In sports which our society places an outsized importance on.

From KU sports.com

“After Grimes finished the outing with 1-for-9 shooting, Bilas said the draft hopeful “really struggled” and wasn’t able to properly follow up “a pretty good showing” the previous day.

Grimes played 32 minutes Friday, going 1-for-6 on 3-pointers. He finished with 9 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 2 turnovers.

ESPN front office insider Bobby Marks noted during the broadcast that back before the 2018-19 season began Grimes was considered a top-20 pick.

“Now we don’t even have him ranked,” Marks continued. “This gave him an opportunity to kind of showcase in front of NBA teams some things that he didn’t do at the University of Kansas.”

Although Marks praised Grimes for doing “a little bit of everything” in Thursday’s scrimmage, when Grimes scored 9 points and rounded out his stat line with 4 boards, 3 assists and 3 steals, he maintained Grimes is not a one-and-done type of talent.

“I don’t care what kind of feedback you get in the next 24 hours,” Marks said, adding Grimes needs to become a more consistent player.”

Not sure I would want him back at KU, because I don’t think grimes is mentally invested in the college game. I’m betting his parents have been and are continuing to fuel his delusion that he is NBA material. Non-delusional parents would have told him a while back to stay in School and develop there, get stronger, work on his game, and work towards getting a degree unless his draft stock rises to a sure first rounder. Non-delusional parents would have told him that nba people as well as overseas pro recruiters would rather have more mature, more developed physically, more seasoned, more prepared kids then 19 year olds except in rare cases. Non-delusional parents would have told him a pro basketball career is relatively short on average, and that his next chapter in life will at minimum require an undergraduate degree, and stats show that it more difficult to complete that degree when you are older and trying to balance working and going to school. Non-delusional parents would have explained to him that college is a very valuable time in one’s life, priceless experiences, making connections and friends, expanding one’s mind and learning new things, and having FUN at the time of your life when you are supposed to. That you can have your cake and eat it too... a degree and going pro!
But Grimes and his parents are drinking the koolaid.

And - On Hampton, I would LOVE to be wrong, and would happily eat my words with both hands, but haven’t we seen the OAD movie many times already?? We pretty much know the plot by heart. They shine early on against lesser competition, then by conference play they struggle, trying to learn the system, doing their best to play D even though they aren’t mentally 100% invested because they know they are moving on to the schlepathon that is the No Defense Association next year, Self having to balance giving them their requisite OAD minutes and benching them for freshman mistakes. Then when we lose in whatever round of the tourney, they tweet “what an amazing experience it was playing for KU, thanks all for the memories” and announce they are leaving.

Some facts about NBA percentages gleaned from various sites...

Of all High school b-ball players who then Go on to the to the NCAA - 1 in 35, so
2.9 percent. NCAA players to the NBA - 1.3 percent.
Currently there are 494 total players in 2018-19 NBA season. Of course the most prestigious D1 programs have the most guys on the NBA- Kentucky had 31 former players on 2018-19 NBA opening-day rosters, Duke had 25, UCLA had 17, North Carolina had 13, and Arizona and Kansas each had 12.

“There were 65 foreign players on 2018-19 NBA opening-day rosters that did not play for U.S. colleges, or 13.2% of the NBA total. That is 8 fewer foreign players than last season. A total of 15 current NBA players went from high schools to the NBA (3.0% of the NBA total), which is up from 10 players last season. That figure includes players which did not go to college but played overseas or worked out for a year on their own before the NBA draft. Just two NBA players attended a non-Division I college. Division I colleges provide a total of 412 NBA players (83.4%). Foreign players that played at U.S. colleges are counted under the appropriate Division I school listing. “
The average age of NBA players has been dropping steadily for the past 5 or 6 years, from 26.86 to 26.38.
And as for length of nba careers:

“Young basketball players that believe they might have a long NBA career should take a look at the second-to-last table on this page because it contains some unforgiving data. This table shows the number of NBA players with the corresponding number of years of NBA experience. For example, there are 89 rookie players on opening-day rosters this season that had no NBA experience coming into this season, and they make up 18.0% of the total of the 494 NBA players on opening-day rosters. Slightly over half (266, or 53.8%) of NBA players are rookies or have only 1, 2, or 3 years of NBA playing experience, and 91.1% of NBA players have 10 or fewer years of experience. Are you convinced that you will have a long, productive NBA career? This is very unlikely because only 44 players (8.9%) on 2018-19 NBA opening-day rosters have more than 10 years of NBA experience, and only 13 have 15 or more years of NBA experience! No players have 18 or 19 years of experience this season, and 2 have 20 years of experience.“

that’s the REALITY.

But as for PERCEPTION, Not surprisingly, of all D1 athletes in sports that have pro leagues, men’s NCAA b-ball players lead by far in the “somewhat likely” belief that they will make it in the NBA. According to a recent study, a whopping 76 percent of D1 players believe this. Remember, only 1.3 percent actually make it to the NBA
This is attributed in large part to the “self-bias phenomenon “ . (Or, maybe we can call this the Grimes phenomenon? :) These kids have so much attention paid to them so early on, it’s easy for them, and equally importantly, their parents, to form this view, in spite of the hard evidence. They are stars in Their community, and scouts, shoe reps etc give them so much praise, and so far they have reached every level of the athletic pyramid. And the belief that college is but a stepping stone to the pros, and that a college degree is not important, is skewed even higher in low income communities.

Also, another facet in the delusion is the belief that one would be “set for life” financially If they got an NBA contract.
According to one site, “Sixty percent of NBA players go broke within five years of departing the league.” The average pro career is pretty short relative to your active life span, whether it’s the NBA, G-league or overseas, and a surprisingly high number of pro basketball athletes squander their money, or underestimate what the future holds as far as how much money one will need to live and retire. After basketball, these players will likely need another career. There are so many coaching positions available, and most are not well paid.
And every study shows that a college degree is almost vital in what ever career one chooses. Although there is a recent uptick in current and former NBA players who are talking classes to work towards getting their degree, the number of players who have a degree hovers around 20 percent.

So.... as been said here before by many posters, I believe what the KU coaching staff need to do better is recruit the kind of kids whose families understand this reality better. kids and families who actually want a college degree, who value the whole college experience, who would die to play for a program as good as KU, and who understand that a scholarship to essentially attend a good university for free Is in fact hugely valuable. It gives them options for their future, no matter what path they choose. Now I know that this may not be possible in all cases for certain recruits, but it should be an increasing shift in how we build the program going forward.
Plus, stats also show that a team with seasoned juniors and seniors do well in the NCAA tourney for obvious reasons. They know the system, know better how to play as a team, and are more confident in their skills.
This should be our goal. We are easily a good enough program to get very talented kids at all positions who will grow over time, and at least a decent amount who would want to actually graduate. At KU.

Although it was a long time ago, in a really different time than now, I remember reading about Bill Walton’ s recruitment. Coach after coach came and pitched him and his parents with the promise of making Bill the star and centerpiece to their team, he would have everything he could want, don’t worry at all about the burden of his academic course load, because many tutors and assistants will make that part of college essentially disappear.
But Coach Wooden came and told the waltons the exact opposite. That playing for him at UCLA was going to be the HARDEST thing Bill ever did by far. He expected, in fact required, that his players maintain good grades on top of all the very demanding hard work of being part of his basketball program. Bill’s parents were sold on the spot. They knew their son, and knew this was exactly what He needed, even if Bill didn’t know it. This is what good parents do.

If our recruiters hear the parents of a prospect
want to talk a lot about how KU will get their kids into the nba, that should be a red flag. Move on.
Let the inclusion deluded kids go somewhere else.

When Marcus stops an opposing player from scoring , that is a net positive. That HELPS US WIN.
How many time this season did I see Lawson make a bucket, then 30 seconds later let an opposing player score on him. that is a Net neutral exchange. And when Lawson forced a bad shot, and immediately get scored on, that is a net negative. I seem to remember Perry Ellis do that a lot, net neutral play. Score a bucket, get scored on.... neutral.

So....
How many years at KU is tristan projected???.
3 or (gulp)... 4 years?

Well if he’s a lottery pick level guy, then odds are payola will be a factor.
let’s hope adidas has gotten better bagmen than gassnola and gatto!! 😁

Is he better than Wiggins, Xavier, or josh? So one year of this freshman kid will make us that much better? He may be an important piece, I can only hope. and Self will be obliged to give him lotsa minutes despite his inexperience. Best case scenario is he shoots the lights out in tourney play ala Newman.

When are we going to get off the crackpipe of OAD mania?

Is he a projected 2 year guy? Or 3 year?
Please don’t tell me he’s a OAD.

And what do you call guys like grimes? DOAD? (Delusional one and done)

Watching biggus davus, he looks like a bull in a china shop... he throws himself around with hyper-abandon, and looks very raw in his skills. To me he doesn’t look athletically refined at all and I wonder how much of that is improvable in 3 remaining years he would have here. obviously lots of drills and repetitive practice should hone his moves and touch, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if his offensive skills top out a bit above the the Landen Lucas level

Dotson is coming back. no way he goes anywhere else

How many guys like Dotson does the nba need? Aren’t they pretty much stocked with super fast guards of his height (or taller)and overall skill set?

@Blown
Well compared to anything else, it appears we may have to hang in there ...( maybe the chiefs will win the super bowl next year... ? )
there are still players who come here for the right reasons... there still is SOME good. Dook, Kentucky and North Carolina did not even make the final four. !! (Trying to cheer you up..) The greatest OAD in many years, Zion the Marketable, with a STUD cast around him, couldn’t put dook in the final four.

Self said he is more energized than ever. Let’s see what kind of coaching and leading he can pull off now. I doubt too many top 25 kids will pick us what with the ncaa cloud. F em...
We still have some KU guys who will most likely play 3 or 4 years... we will get to see them at senior nite !!
Let’s go get hungry guys who will bleed crimson and blue.
No more Grimes types, PLEASE... a 19 yr old who has been given spectacularly bad advice from his fam and circle.

@HighEliteMajor
“We need to focus on non-OADs, and commit to those non-OADs that we will never recruit over them with a presumed OAD. But I’ve said that for quite a while now.”

I’m in 100% ageeement. Welcome to the G league
Quentin... at best. Here’s betting that he will never see a full season on an NBA court.

When self and the staff go recruiting, listen to the messages coming from the family. and if it’s all about playing their kid playing pro ball as fast as possible, move along.

Question for the board- what your take on the Lawson’s now that their one-year stint at KU is over... how will they rank for you as the years pass.. how would you assess their impact on the current program.

For me, Dedrick was pretty essential in winning games, because of the weird year we had with no doke, no desousa, the second disappearance of Vick (will we ever find out the full story in that?) but.. he always just seemed like he was doing his thing, forcing as many shots as he was scoring them, and he never felt like a team leader type. I never sensed that playing for KU for him was a big deal vs any other decent program. I never got the Love-for-KU vibe very much from him (and does that really matter?) He behaved exactly like a guy who knew all along he was here for one year, showcasing his skills in a marquee program before going pro. That is the new reality. He certainly won games for us for sure.
kJ? I wanted to like him.. he seemed a bit lost at times, but got better as the season wore on. He must have known all along it he was here just a year as well. Mercenaries comes to mind.

Come on grimes... do it. Leave... listen to all your people and parents... ones who’ve been telling you how great you are, your POTENTIAL... you are N.B.A. .. materiel dammit!!! Self was and is making you play in ways that are NOT conducive to your development, all that emphasis on defense and switching and setting picks and passing... these really are not needed in the NDA (the NoDefenseAssociation) that is your goal. You are wasting your time here.

Selby is by far my least fav player ever to don a KU Jersey, and grimes, you will be very close second. Do it!! I will follow your career thru whatever league you end up in... and however long you can manage to play for whatever $ you can make. Just leave KU so we can get someone who actually WANTS to play ball for KU, wants to invest their selves in college and the program.

On Dotson-
correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the nba already overstocked with his type??

And our boy Frank is currently riding the pine with the Kings

Wow
Great job

Got me... !

As to the current four teams in the final four, seems like 2016 were key recruiting years for these clubs according to recent espn article. Teams with experience on them in other words, mixed with transfers and freshmen. Not sure any of these teams were overload with OADs (like duke or Kentucky .. btw so glad they are out, along with North Carolina). And of course, these guys are all playing well right now (timing) and playing with chemistry. I watched all the games this past weekend, and it was clear why they are in the final four- just flat out good basketball. Better level than KU had played at least since like January in my hazy recollection.

I’m with Kcmatt7

We would have heard more rumblings if Self were in trouble. He is indeed full of piss and vinegar.

Now is Hurt a OAD?

I like Biggus Davus

Every time he was in a game I got nervous..
I honestly can’t remember ever feeling that way about any other KU player

How many of you would have left college after one or two years to make say 1 to 200 k a year playing a sport? You remember your 19-20 yr old self? Who’s advice were you most influenced by ? Parents, relatives, college or high school mentors? Friends? Significant others?
It’s a question that most here I’m guessing never really had to answer.

I honestly couldn’t even fathom leaving for a job. College was more than learning, It was a great almost essential time on so many levels. A huge time in my life. Fun, experiences, friends, opening your mind (in more ways than one) that impacted the rest of my life.

But of course I sure as hell didn’t play any d1 sport.

K.J. is not nba material... more playing time may or may not help his overseas pro career. Kansas has so many positives for him. The coaching, the top tier program, more time with Hudy... or yes he could play more somewhere else, certainly not a blues blood school, but somewhere where his style and size are needed. You know, committing to relentless D and learning team ball, challenging himself would get him playing time. Marcus garret gets a lot of minutes in those qualities alone, why not K.J.?

@HighEliteMajor
I thought it was rat f—k in caddy shack...
but it’s been awhile...

K.J. ? Really ? Why would he leave a top program? ? Makes no sense at all to me... he will get playing time here. He got better over the year, and there are many many positives for sticking with a top program.

Grimes leaving would be a flat out joke. My god. For what? d-league money and anonymity...? He is nowhere NEAR pro level. Where is Newman now ? D-league right? Newman was better than Grimes.
If he leaves, then my advice to the coaching staff- avoid guys like him like the plague. Get guys who want to play for Kansas and to learn the game under self, not guys who think it’s an ok stop before they “ supposedly”go to the pros.

And why wouldn’t Doke want one more year under self, under the bright spotlight of a blue-blood college program.... overseas can wait one more year for a 20 year old.

Yes we all root for duke to lose... and many many many fans obviously root for Kansas to lose.
Goes with the territory

To UCF ... university of central Florida.
This duke team is considered one of the best assemblages of talent since the Kentucky team that lost to Wisconsin.
If the ball had rolled a slightly different way, Duke is OUT on the first weekend. To UCF.

This is what the ncaa tourney is about... this is why it really really hard to win it no matter what kind of talent you recruit. This is why it is is a very imperfect overall measure of a teams and coaches success.

How would we have all felt of this were Kansas’s recruits? And they lost? You can load up your team with nba studs, but it doesn’t guarantee a win in the ncaa. So every time I read here that ncaa championships are the measure of how we rate our team, I just laugh...

The worst part of this time of year and an early exit...
the INTERMINABLE wait for next season... hate it hate HATE it

And I have a very good (probably naive) feeling that more players than we think will return vs declare and/or go to play d league or overseas.

Where is dedrick going? d-league? Europe?

Maybe this is a game when grimes finds his stroke...

So,.... how specifically do we match up with this auburn team? Any thoughts out there from some of you bucket analysts/ aficionados ?

Who had the most minutes against NU ? Grimes at 31 ... 3 points , 1 rebound, 3 assists

any second now mr NBA is going to carry us and pull a Malik Newman !!
Final four baby!!

(Ok.. let’s have him make me eat my words on Sunday...)
😀

Yes other words describing the cbs analyst come thru on my autospell as d—sh-t, dumbs—t, douche—g.. and doofus as well

@BShark
But…I mean…KU was offering “whatever it takes” to get Zion and he picks Duke while his low income parents end up with a new house in a nice area. 1+1=?

Really.. I didn’t know that. Makes perfect sense...and was thinking that someone should at least look into zions dad... and yes dook and Kentucky and all of them are playing the game. Of course they are.

But - back to Self . His recent comments can certainly be taken as a hedge against KU deciding to ask him to leave in the wake of what may be coming as to more ncaa investigation, (okie state will be salivating...) but they also can be taken on the face of it.. he states that his passion has been renewed, he wants to coach a looong time, he has said that he is very excited about the team right now, (this is not veiled “coach-speak,” he truly is pumped) and frankly to me he sounds so confident -“I welcome the ncaa investigation”- that he must know the ncaa has squat.

He almost sounds pissed!... sounds he wants to take on the ncaa, who cowardly threw desousa under the bus. He wants to work hard to recruit the right guys despite the Nike stranglehold on top recruits. ( is the ncaa investigating Zion’s dad ?? His conversations with any Nike people?. Nope .. do not touch the cash cow that is duke and the golden boy Zion) Self is more committed than ever to win with this program. He loves coaching these young guys, which is why he gave the apparently troubled Vick a second chance.

I honestly cannot see any of our guys going to the nba. Not one. Maybe de Sousa goes pro somewhere. He got totally jobbed.

Scandal, doke out, Vick comes back, then leaves, ncaa using Kansas as a scapegoat by over punishing de Sousa, Grimes really not what we were hoping for, garret hurt, we lose the 12 championship, and,., Moore- we have Moore playing minutes. He does not fit on our team, we (Self) should be able to do better than Moore.

just sooooo disappointed.

And after we lose in the tourney (really doesn’t matter which round for me at least, hopefully we get to second weekend) then there is the endless wait til next season.

Sorry just in a really crappy mood.

Damn .
I can only hope we have a good run in the tourney...
but this team are flawed, and not sure Self has figured out what to do with these guys.

Even my faith In Self is shaken. Seriously

This whole season has really thrown me for a loop. I look forward to KU ball all damn year, and now I’m really struggling

Talk about major disappointment

Damn

Wow- you guys get into it in a hurry don’t you? We can agree to disagree here without bringing in personal “cyber-micro-aggressions” into the mix, can’t we?

First of all, it really is a sad thing about Vick. He came here to play ball, he struggled for a variety of reasons, but mostly mental is the optics here, he left, then my guess he was advised by people close to him to try and get the right attitude to come back which would be the best path forward for him, and remember self let him come back. I would hazard a guess that Self had some pause, but he gave him another chance. Once back, He looked good, looked like a potential leader on the team, then my guess is his old demons crept back in, and he had to go away again. He indeed may have some serious mental issues... millions of people do. I honestly have no idea what it would be like to play D1 level ball at a top program While fulfilling your academic obligations. Lots of pressure, and remember he was the the de facto senior -leader. It could be an anger control issue, and Vick may have lashed out inappropriately after games at every one, or just shut down mentally, who knows.
Anyway I always rooted for him hard, and hope for the best for him. Just sad he’s not here to soak in the love on senior day... sad.

Vick apparently not coming back for senior day

Kinda sad all around

intersting choice of pictures .. I love a lot of former and current players, but my favorite KU player in the last 15 years is the guy pictured on the right up a few threads... I’m with JB on that guy, and remember his writing and opinions. no real rhyme or reason as to why it transpires that a certain player gets to you, it just is what it is... my love of the team and of certain guys has no real basis in stats or rational conclusions. and yes I remember the arguing and the vitriol about #31.
But passion is the real basis for why we are all here, and JB had a LOT of it.

Well this team is going to have to live with the fact that they were the ones who broke the longest streak in D1 b-ball. Of course not wholly their fault. I truly hope they manage to have a deep run in the tourney to help mitigate this.

Agreed! Good article- the man is CLEARLY focused and 100% goal driven. Let’s hope Biggus Davus doesn’t turn out to be Landen as far as offensive skills.. I would happily settle for Azubuike-like skills.

And another point.. it feels to me like some here may take themselves a bit too seriously.
Mr J -bate brought fun to this place more than anything else for me. He was decidedly original in many ways. Which is why I never understood why certain people felt the need to pick apart some of his more elaborate and inventive theorizations. Did it really matter if some of his Jenga- like thought streams may not completely hold up to logical scrutiny? Better to just enjoy, and at his best, he made you see things in a new light... even if the light was refracted.

Actually I think I may have discovered where he went...

a guy who writes just like him, apparently called BDevilbate, is on a Duke site writing voluminously long and zen-like meandering but crazy-brilliant posts... lovingly extolling the genius of krzyzewski and the glowing magnificent heritage of Duke basketball... and how he catfished us here for years simply to amuse himself.

It appears his “love” of KU was just nothing but a put-on... an abject sham. Hideous.

(Ok...Trying to piss him off enough to resurface just to rip me a new one in say 7 alliterative paragraphs.. :)

Garrett baby !! Mr team do-anything.

And Ochai second fav for me... it certainly appears we have scored another surprise stud player with him. if the guys could work with Garrett on his shooting form, then could he show them how to move their feet, work hard, stay focused and don’t go for the fake on D. ??

Plus good to see Mitch fighting hard and making good stuff happen. And yes biggus Davus needs game time to learn refine his game (total bull in a china shop right now)

Injuries in the B12 have been CHRONIC... PERSISTENT.. EXPLODING... now DIARRA