Easily the Villanova game. Villanova shot and extremely good percentage from three, made 13 threes and made us play in the half court and still got dominated by us most of the game. I mean, our guys scored 1.58 points per possession. The execution and shot making was amazing. Not to mention the defense to start the game was literally straight out of 08 with the quickness and trapping. Honestly one of the best executed games I’ve seen a Self team play, factoring in the opponent and that it was a high stakes game.
HawkChamp
3175 posts
@drgnslayr I actually called into Hawk talk early in the 2015-2016 season and asked self about the same pace question. Specifically, when it came to the tournament. He told me that in the tournaments, the piece chance to slow down and it becomes a half court game. However, as we saw with the second half of the Carolina game and the second half of the Miami game, you absolutely can make it a much faster game just like you can in any game during the season. I hope he has learned that as well and I echo your sentiments.
But, as we know, even with a faster pace, you can still advance far into the tournaments playing a slower style. The 2012 team did this exact same thing, and I don’t think I would classify the 2018 team as playing with that fast tempo.The 08 team and this past year’s team will definitely similar in the fact that they both were at their best when playing fast. There were even some plays during the Villanova game, especially early on, when they would just come down the court and get it to Dave and he would score almost immediately. Reminded me a lot of the 08 game against Carolina when Arthur scored quickly to start the game. Aesthetically, I liked that a lot.
Bold prediction - Self gets two more titles before he retires and is in the top tier with K and Wooden when he retires in his late sixties.
I know some are high on Clemence, but even late in the season against the 16 seed he looked way out of his element. I don’t think you can for sure count on major production from him.
IMO, this was Selfs best coaching job to date. He was totally prepared with how to handle when things get tight in the tournament and he delivered in a big way.
- Teams that have a crazy shooting night from three - check
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Double digit seed in the elite eight - check
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Jay Wright and Villanova in the final four - check
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North Carolina in the championship game - check
Tournament run for the ages.
I think this will go down like the VCU and Oregon games - valiant effort to get it within a few then Carolina hits a big shot to stop the momentum and win it. Hope I’m wrong.
Thread title reminds me of tortilla chips with Pace salsa 😋
I like Harris on Gillespie, the way he Saran wrapped McGusty was impressive, and McGusty I would argue has more skills than Gillespie and is more athletic.
Out of the past few meetings, this is the one time I think we have a higher ceiling and a bit more explosiveness than Nova. Plus, our perimeter defensive effort is much better than it was in 2018. I rewatched highlights of the game and was amazed at the night and day difference between the 2018 team and the one we saw this past weekend as far as getting out on shooters.
Hopefully we can turn the tables on them this time. We are certainly due for a great shooting night and Saturday would be a great time for it.
How about that next gear in the second half? We’ve all been waiting for them to show out like that. Dang that was amazing! I normally don’t feel good going against Jay Wright but if we play like that with some decent shooting I think we’ll be playing Duke Monday night.
@Texas-Hawk-10 correct, have to be able to win a variety of ways.
The only thing I’m worried about is can we defend again like the first half plus having even an average shooting night. To me, that is the next gear for this team. Pace can help get you more possessions to take more shots, but if you’re not making them it doesn’t matter. I really liked the attention to the D last night, getting out on shooters and making them play bad, especially in the first half and key moments in the second half. I rewatched highlights of our final four game against Villanova and the difference in effort on perimeter D was night and day compared to last night. Got to keep it up and start knocking down some 3s.
Fortunately, Miami seems to like a faster tempo and they tried to constantly trap ISU last night, who ultimately didn’t make them pay nearly enough for that. Shouldn’t be a worry about pace in this game @drgnslayr.
@BShark said in Friars vs Hawks S16 Game Thread:
Anonymous Providence player on David
McCormack:"He walked in our locker room &
walked right by me. And I'm like,
what the hell is he coming to our
locker room for? And he walked
by me and he tapped Nate Watson on
the leg, and said, 'Lace 'em up,
it's gonna be a long f--king
night.’
Really??
@drgnslayr probably no need to worry about pace. If you recall against Creighton, the sideline reporter noted that Self told them in a timeout that they looked “slow”. He knows they need to play fast.
@benshawks08 said in NOT Remy?!:
@HawkChamp This is actually my FAVORITE thing about where we are right now. We've honestly gone a winning streak here to end the season despite being in somewhat of a shooting slump! Here's hoping we come out of that slump sometime in the next 4 games! I know Self is a strong believer in the law of averages and is absolutely loving that this team has been able to win while not shooting well. And even against a team that shot better than their average in what is always a possible trap game.
Exactly. I’m sorry to bring up old painful memories but to put it in perspective, VCU shot 9/16 from three in the first half and we were down what, 14? On Saturday, Creighton shot an even better percentage at 8/12 in the first half and we led. And we only played pretty good, not great. Just something to keep an eye on moving forward.
@DCHawker said in NOT Remy?!:
@drgnslayr said in NOT Remy?!:
Defense is our Achilles... That is never proven more than the Bluejay game. We could have shot better from the field but otherwise, we can't expect to do better. We dominated boards, we shot the lights out from the line, we had almost no TOs... we dominated possessions!
Teams like the Zags feast on teams like ours. Turning the game into a game where we try just to outscore our poor defense will not get it done versus the Zags.
Yes, I sound negative... but listen to Self. We need that gear we haven't hit yet. And though Remy brings us a big punch... the real secret weapon we have is that gear we need to reach. I don't think the Zags have the personnel to stop us from hitting that gear... it is all within our guys to find it. It means we play totally free from overthinking and we just go out there and run hard on both sides of the ball.
If this happens... we can win a National Championship, no problemo. And we will all be blessed with watching some of the all-time best Hawk ball ever to be played... and it comes from a group of guys not at the personal level of other teams we've had.
No matter what, I'm proud of these guys for achieving what they have... and I'm hopeful having a week to prepare and a healthy Remy, we find that gear Self is talking about. Wow!
RCJH!
You are spot on. We haven't played badly, but we haven't played particularly well. We barely got passed a Creighton team that was down to 5-1/2 guys and without arguable their two best players throughout the season. We might be able to win the next two games the same way - winning ugly - but not 4 games as the quality of competition ratchets up. Because we can't consistently get stops on possessions, we are going to have to start making shots. I don't know if that's what HCBS means by another gear. We simply haven't shot the ball well, esp. Ochai. If we do start making shots - even just 8-20 from 3 - we are capable of beating anyone and running the table...
And honestly, that’s not a bad thing that they haven’t played their best yet. If you remember, the 2012 and 2018 teams both puttered around in the early rounds then picked it at the second weekend. The 2018 especially, other than nearly blowing an 18 point lead to Clemson in the final minutes. It at least gives us somewhere to go and hopefully saves our best shooting games for this weekend.
@BigBad I disagree largely with the notion that he has a low ceiling. Yes, a player to have a high ceiling does have to have good fundamentals and skills on both sides of the ball, but he does things on offense that no one on that team can do and you can tell that he is giving more effort onto the defensive side of the ball. Is he great defensively? Absolutely not, but he is putting in the effort to guard and right now that’s the best we will get. To me, it is a no-brainer to have him please significant minutes. He was an absolute star at Arizona State And, as Greg McDermott pointed out, has made much progress overall. He is a net positive overall for the team, and that may be enough to get us W’s in two more games. Only time will tell.
The keys to beating Gonzaga are the same as when UConn beat Kentucky in 2014, Nova beat UNC in 2016 and Baylor beat Gonzaga last year. Good three-point shooting is a must, getting easy buckets in transition and playing in up-tempo negates height advantage, and of course how you play your interior defense is also extremely important. Somethings that Villanova did extremely well against North Carolina is post denial by fronting the post and having good ball pressure on the entry pass. You have to make timely shots, spread the floor, run and gun, and don’t have sloppy turnovers. As we have discussed for years, small ball has a number of advantages against taller teams, which have nothing to do about good or bad matchups. Some of the tall and long dominant teams from the last decade or two have many times not one and have been defeated by a small ball team. If we get that far, I would hope to see some of the tactics and strategies that I have disclosed in this post and some of what we have seen from this team at numerous times this year.
@BeddieKU23 said in Hangover II Game Thread:
There has to be a solution to a quadruple team
yeah, pass da ball :)
@BShark they are packing the lane so there needs to be some adjustment.
@Big-Clyde52 said in End game failure...:
It has cost us in March before. Maybe Self has forgot about our Sweet 16 game when we had a 3 point lead with a few seconds left. We let a guy named Burke dribble across half court and throw up a 30 footer. Nothing but net. We lost in overtime. If I can remember, I would think Self damn sure could. Another chance to go to the FF down the drain. STUPIDITY!!!
Well, there was actually a whole lot more that went into that loss than just Burke's shot. EJ's pass to nobody in the backcourt and the ten second violation were completely avoidable. If those don't happen, we win. Simple as that.
@drgnslayr said in End game failure...:
We had several screw ups at the end, including the jump ball call where we had 2 or 3 players right there... none knowing to call timeout (we had 2 timeouts left). Would have saved a possession.
I'm with the many, including the pros, that believe it is best to foul when up by 3. Several things have to happen for them to tie or win. Usually it means making the first FT, missing the second, getting the rebound, and getting off and making a basket. Compare that, where you have to have a chain of events happen, with just hitting one trey.
It is very clear to me that we are a bit lost at the end of close games. Think back to the Nova game. That took a complete collapse to lose that one.
So much of what needs to happen isn't working on plays, but just teaching our guys what to do under certain situations. Boiler plate decisions. And what to be aware of. And then there are a few plays to master. Not many. Execute. And be ready for what is going to come at us.
I know one thing... I'm pointing out a few things. Doke is a monster, but why was he on the floor when we were up by 1 with the ball? Luckily, Drew didn't know what to do. The answer was to come up and foul Doke without the ball. It would have stuck him on the line. Expect that to happen in March.
We were fortunate to win in Waco.
Good points. However, Self is quite aware of the "fouling vs not fouling" calculus. Remember, against Ohio State in the Final Four, Self elected to foul Aaron Craft at the end of the game when up 3. Some have suggested that Self during the season wants his teams to "man-up" and do it the hard way by defending and getting the stop. If that's true, I can understand it. As for Doke, we have seen in season's past that Self wants to keep him out there in crunch time, as he did in 2018 at OU. I'm guessing he wanted to keep him out there for defensive purposes? It would be interesting if someone asked him that question.
Except for Agbaji's turnover on the in-bounds late, I don't think the execution was that bad. Sure, it was earlier in the year, but I don't think there is too much to complain about for this game.
@nuleafjhawk I’m glad you know about it!!
@dylans hmmm I’m sorry for your anger issues on the city as a whole. Hopefully it gets better for you :)
@dylans ease up there chief. Some of us live there and love it. Don’t understand the vile hatred some of you have for Wichita.
@nuleafjhawk the edit function is your friend in this case
@nuleafjhawk crappy town?? Well I guess that’s your opinion bud
@BShark Hmm that sounds familiar....
@Texas-Hawk-10 25 game win streak? Dang that would be a lot. But at the level we are playing right now, I wouldn't say the odds are very low.
@kjayhawks I see your point but while it could happen as it has so many times in the past, we are really deep into the season. Hard to envision Baylor having a meltdown though I would not complain at all if it happened this week :)
@kjayhawks It's never too late for Scott Drew to pull a Scott Drew, but this year feels different to me. I mean, it's late February and he's only lost one game. That's pretty damn good. I have a feeling we will win on Saturday and we will see this team be the road warriors that they are.
Can't believe this thread title made it past the censors.
@BShark yeah they shoot it really well. Kinda reminds me of a Villanova type team. That sort of team is one that we see do well at the collegiate and professional levels - 4 out 1 in, lots of ball movement and shoot the three well.
@dylans 😂😂
Me with Silvio at the game tonight.
!0_1564111698595_0B617138-1089-41AE-BA86-60C675AEAF25.jpeg ↗
Texas Hawk 10 said:
I'm wondering how much Perry's injury played into this. These guys have pro contracts outside of this tournament and I'm wondering if they backed off after Perry's injury to preserve themselves for the professional teams.
Could be, who knows. Arthur was visibly frustrated during timeouts. I’ll have to watch highlights of him versus UNC and Memphis to forget about today’s game.
Yeah and wait to speed the game up. This was a great team to run up and down with.
Yeah no Perry and no Mario Chalmers really hurts
This is just an awful performance in every aspect of the game. Kind of embarrassing
Oof
@kjayhawks that’s a pretty big if after witnessing the first half live
BShark said:
HawkChamp said:
Man they’re not running any offense. I could guard them if they keep standing around
You can't come into this thing without having practiced and having sets to run that are not just college sets. It's a serious tournament and it doesn't look like they took it too seriously.
Yeah that’s kind of what it looks like. They’re better than this.
Man they’re not running any offense. I could guard them if they keep standing around
I will say this, this group can play D and is explosive as heck
Spoke too soon
I’m at the game. KU playing real rough. Offense is ugly
@JAYHAWKFAN214 What do you mean? This is pretty silly, imo, if it turns out this way. Tennessee will be only a shell of the team they were last year and we will arguably be much better. Makes zero sense.
KUSTEVE said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Dave has a ways to go as a big. But, when I hear Coach Self raving about him the way he did this summer, it tells me something is happening enough for the coach to say "hands down" the most growth in the summer. Maybe some shooting range, maybe some improved ball skills, maybe some better rebounding. These players aren't stationary bicycles- they grow...they improve.
I think you've been crooning over Dedric's 19ppg so much, you aren't realizing that his points will be replaced. They are always replaced. Might not be one guy picking up the slack, but I guarantee you Bill's offense will always score what they normally score. In fact, because we have to make up for one big scoring guy, that makes our offense more diverse, and harder to defend. After Perry graduated, we all said where are the points going to come from now that Perry is gone, and we managed. We wonder every year where the points are going to come from ( unless we have returning top scorers), and every year, Bill manages to figure it out. It is why he is in the Hall of Fame.
Maybe it's a hodgepodge of 3 point shooters that carry us when we need it. Maybe it's Moss one night, Dotson the next time, and Agbaji the next. Maybe our frontline allows to us play more aggressively, and we pick up some cheapies off our defense. Cheapies we weren't getting last year because our defense sucked so badly. Maybe the improved rebounding allows us to have more possessions than last year, and so the "live and die by the 3 when they pack in the lane and we shoot badly" meme doesn't hold as much water. Maybe the question isn't "how is KU going to score" as relevant as "how are we going to score on KU"??? . Remember, there's more than one way to skin a wildcat.
This man gets it. Well said @KUSTEVE
drgnslayr said:
If I'm not mistaken, Moss is a 40+% shooter from trey. Yes... he can be inconsistent. Every player is from trey. I watch Steph Curry go 2 for 12, then go net 8 in a row. It's the nature of trey shooting... hot, cold, hot. What counts is the %.
You are putting up a solid argument. But you don't account for the positive unknowns. Mostly... we have a HOFr coach. It's his job to tweak the offense to make things work.
I definitely see Moss as an improvement over Vick and Q. Moss has many offensive weapons. Vick was only a trey shooter. Vick's shot stopped falling because teams would scout him. Really easy... get in his grill on the trey line and he's done. He wouldn't drive on those opportunities because he became a very non-aggressive player. Q wasn't a threat from trey or to drive. Zero! Surely Moss will play with more aggression.
I don't want to bag on Vick... I still like Vick a lot. But we were a better team without him. That speaks volumes. And though our depth chart fell... I felt like we would have been a much better team without Q. Total liability.
Watch the clip on Moss scoring all those points in like a minute and a half. He surely has some alpha dog in him to do that... something no other D1 player has ever done.
I like your commentary on many of the new guys and trying to throttle down immediate expectations. Wise. We never know if one or more of those guys can end up giving us a solid contribution in year 1, but we just can't count on that. I know I don't, but I'm still extremely optimistic about this team!
This +100. How some people (not mentioning any names lol) forget that Vick was often a liability on defense, something that Moss is known for being good at. I would take solid D and the percentage he shot last year in conference play, however inconsistent, every day of the week. To me, this is a no-brainer.
Man TexasHawk is certainly on a mission this summer to crush any hope of optimism or positivity that we all are craving after the debacle that was last season. How dare we be excited and hopeful that things are better. Shame on us!