🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@Texas-Hawk-10 And I think you're ignoring important facts about when Silvio played.

First, with Svi, Devonte, Malik and Vick being the terrific perimeter players and shooters they were, the offense was never going to go through a freshman Silvio, nor should it have.

Secondly, you discuss point numbers yet conveniently leave out his rebounding numbers and overall low post presence, which is what we were desperately needing at the time. In the Big 12 tournament, here are his numbers -

OSU - 6 points, 8 rebounds

KSU - 8 points, 11 rebounds

WVU - 16 points, 10 rebounds

I'll give it to you that he didn't do much against Penn or Seton Hall, but here are his numbers against Clemson and Duke -

Clemson - 9 points, 6 rebounds

Duke - 4 points, 10 rebounds

To me, those are all really solid numbers and absolutely took care of the need. If he posted numbers like that in that short amount of time, I'm confident that he has potential to do more. I'm not sure why this is something that would even be brought up for debate by anyone who paid attention to the games at the time.

Thirdly, you say that there were plenty of bad moments - uh, duh, he was two months removed from high school and joined during conference season! Yeah, he was on a steep learning curve that was a very unique situation and yet he improved a lot and played great for us on the way to the Big 12 tournament championship and a final four run.

Given on court time, Silvio WILL get there and impact the team in more diverse ways than Dedric ever did. Remember, scoring is important but there is more to it than that. There is a reason dragonslayr has been talking a lot about the physicality of our frontcourt with Dok, Dave and Silvio. Did we have that last year with no Dok and Silvio? Absolutely not. It was soft as a kitten’s fur in that department, which is part of what Dedric does not contribute. I know Silvio will likely not score as many points as Dedric per game, but it’s the other facets of his game that this year’s team will reap the benefits of.

@Texas-Hawk-10 that May happen, it may not. Who knows how “refined” his game is. All I care about is progression through the year and it doesn’t sound illogical to assume Silvio will do just that. He has final four experience and a year to learn about Selfs system and practice with the team. I mean, it’s not like he was chilling on the sidelines and doing nothing but eat Snickers and listen to Kanye the whole time. Sure, he needs more game experience but he’ll get plenty of that during the season and be primed to go in March.

@Texas-Hawk-10 I know all that, I watched every game and have watched replays. Similarly, you should not forget that he was what, two months removed from high school? To do what he did in that short amount of time is a testament to his potential and learning capability.

My position remains the same - we will be a better team at the end of the year with a long, strong and athletic player like Silvio over a player like Dedric. Don’t get me wrong, I like Dedric as a player but he doesn’t raise the ceiling of a team to the extent that Silvio does.

@BShark I know that, I’m mostly referring to how I would prefer a player like Silvio over Dedric. Even in his short time playing, Silvio made several plays, like the half court ally oop against Clemson or the alley oop to end the first half against West Virginia that Dedric could never make. Silvio has more potential, more strength, more athleticism and more efficiency, hence my reply to why Silvio is a better option imo.

@Texas-Hawk-10 no, at the end of the year Dedric was turning into a detriment on the offensive end of the floor, needed a ton of shots to get twenty points and was shooting a low percentage from three. Apparently you missed how good Silvio was in the March run in 2018 and how quickly he progressed after just joining the team. He was great against Konate in the championship game and held his own against Bagley and Carter and was key in the final four run. I’ll take the potential I saw in Silvio, his on court results and assumed improvements over what we saw out of Dedric at the end of the year.

People keep saying how teams will pack it in the paint this year, which MAY happen but I think it’s pretty overblown. I don’t think there’s any way we are as bad of a shooting as last year. I don’t predict that will happen at all and that circumstance occurring is the only way teams will pack it in. I understand the concern but at this juncture in time it’s pretty unfounded.

@KUSTEVE yeah I don’t get what some are getting at - are they saying we couldn’t use a guy who shot 50% during conference play?? Even if he is streaky, I’d take it every day.

@justanotherfan don’t forget about Dave!

We all have seen over the years that Bill Self coaches teams tend to not start the year off fast. Hence you do not have to be a prophet to deduce this years teams will most likely follow the same trajectory. The experience actually, historically, has proven to be a huge difference. Again, anyone who has watched Bill Self coached teams knows that his best teams are ones that are older and more experienced. This is the case throughout college basketball.

I think on Silvio people tend to forget how good he was once he started figuring things out in the Big 12 tournament and on through March. And that was being just a couple months removed from high school right in the thick of conference play.

As others have said, Doke is the key and always has been since his freshman year with the infamous Oregon fiasco. I’ll always believe a healthy Doke gets us a final four in 2017.

What’s not to like about this year? Better shooting, quality depth, more experience and our most impactful players back from last year. Things could be a lot worse.

Man, the Silvio lowball is strong with some here. Hope he proves them all wrong.

This years team has the potential to be quite a bit better than last year even with the full roster was available. More shooting, more experience, more depth, more athleticism and more size. Once Self has them rolling sometime in February, there is no reason to think it won’t be the best team this coming year. I don’t see Duke doing better than this past year. I mean, RJ Barrett and freakin Zion couldn’t get them to the final four. MIchigan state doesn’t have a lot of room for growth but their experience gives them a high ceiling and would be tough to beat if we play them in November.

Man lots of pointless bickering and finger pointing going on. Thought this was Rupp rafters or phog.net for a second. My goodness

Texas Hawk 10 said:

Arizona or LSU are going to be the NCAA's sacrificial lamb out of this round of investigations.

KU may get something out of this, but not playing Billy Preston is going go keep KU from taking the brunt of this.

Agreed. Arizona went ahead and played players that were in question without a second thought. Not a good look. Could be much worse for us than some vague text messages and $2500.

@drgnslayr good point about his offensive game. Who was it, McBride, that said he had no idea how good Marcus is offensively. I distinctly remember the ISU game at home this past year and how Marcus was shredding the ISU defense almost every trip down the floor. Then the high ankle sprain happened and he wasn't the same. I want that version of him this year with a plus 30% three point gun this year.

@drgnslayr Good point. It's nice to go after players that are perceived as having the most upside and talent, but at the end of the day, you need players who play smart and disciplined and make winning plays. I don't think many would consider Villanova's championship teams in 2016 and 2018 as being elite athletically, but were some of the smartest and well-disciplined teams I've seen in the last ten to fifteen years.

HighEliteMajor said:

@jayballer73 Easy .. as I read it, he was fine if Garrett transferred as a consequence of Garrett being redshirted. That's different than saying he should transfer. And we should also, I think, understand that a valuable player in one person's eyes is not in another person's. That's debatable. And until Garrett can shoot better than the third best player on a 7th grad team, it's a valid discussion point.

So, I said a long, long time ago, if Jamari Traylor never played here, we would have been a better team. That isn't for lack of appreciation, that's based on my belief that his net contributions were negative relative to the next best option.

On that point, I think @Marco loses in his position on Garrett. Garrett, I think, in the proper role, provides a strong net positive. But again, until he can actually shoot the ball at a semi-competent rate, that opinion is one that can easily be contested.

Did you see Kevin Flaherty's article on Garrett's shooting? He talks about how Garrett's shot doesn't have the same hitch in it but also has a horizontal spin, which we have discussed on here about his and Dok's shooting. Question is: if we notice it and sports writers notice it over the past year or two, why the blank is it still the same? Doesn't seem like fixing that problem would be nuclear physics.

HighEliteMajor said:

@KUSTEVE I'll add to your group there. I don't see Jalen as a 3 yet. I need to see it play out. We have four terrific perimeter players in Dotson, Moss, Agbaji and Garrett. there are 120 minutes per game there. The math is easy. A fifth guy could get some time. My view is that McBride for appx. 10 is most likely if he's not overwhelmed. But I don't know.

But if Self is flexible with his offense, and Wilson is a 4, we could be 4/1 like last season when he's at the 4 and it's much the same difference. I'm just not convinced the kid will be a significant minutes guy yet.

Did I mention how much I love this roster? And the competition? Maybe my favorite so far -- though 2012's tight rotation, KY sealing the deal, TT playing great, EJ, Releford, Withey, TRob, and a little Teahan as needed (right Purdue), will be hard to beat.

I'm with you man. We had several things fall our way this off-season, (Dok and Dotson staying, Silvio eligible, landing three point shooters) that I didn't think would happen. Yeah, Michigan State is going to be good and Kentucky and Louisville will be too but who else has our upside and overall talent? I don't see one. Just like every year, we'll probably start slow, look a little rough in November and December, folks will be overly critical and say we're not good, then Self will have 'em rolling come late February early March. Just like he does most years. Definitely potential to only be a three loss team.

approxinfinity said:

Texas Hawk 10 said:

@FarmerJayhawk It's not really about Dave starting over Silvio because that's not likely to happen. It's more about whether or not Dave could back up Silvio. If Mitch redshirts, a back up 4 is the one potential weakness on this roster. Jalen Wilson's athleticism is a big issue because he's in the Brannen Greene, Quinton Grimes range of athleticism.

Yeah I'm already wondering how taking on Jalen was a good idea. This kid better have steel nerves and dedication. More Perry, less Q and Green.

Why would it not be a good idea? Best case scenario, he can play between 10 and 20 minutes a game, play decent D and make some threes. At worst, he's a backup when someone gets in foul trouble who you can put it to steal a few minutes. Sounds like a win-win to me.

kjayhawks said:

I could see Marsha jumping ship after this year. He's learning it ain't the Valley, there's more than 2 good teams in the American.

You think so? He's already passed up multiple opportunities to bigger programs. At best, he'd be making a lateral move or lower somewhere.

HighEliteMajor said:

Bosthawk said:

I have to assume Jalen is fully aware of the number one thing that will earn playing time and keep him in a game with our coach...

(Pleas feel free to fill in the blank )

Achieving “pet” status?

this is post hall of fame material ladies and gents.

@rockchalkwyo Who would we go after though?

@rockchalkuncsux yeah Silvio helped take out Bagley and Wendell Carter in the Elite Eight. Hurt is toast.

Four losses at most. 2 losses with Dok, DeSousa and good Vick.

@Bosthawk I hear you. This season has been disappointing, after such a good and promising start. In an odd way it seems like my personal life has followed a similar path. This is just one of those times where you have to be strong and keep moving forward.

Bosthawk said:

Damn .
I can only hope we have a good run in the tourney...
but this team are flawed, and not sure Self has figured out what to do with these guys.

Even my faith In Self is shaken. Seriously

This whole season has really thrown me for a loop. I look forward to KU ball all damn year, and now I’m really struggling

Talk about major disappointment

Damn

Not having three key players from last years final four team is why we have what we have. The roster is top five good but really hard to win big games without those guys.

@kjayhawks yep. I only started watching at the last six minutes, but Tech couldn’t do anything when Duke started actually playing defense. That and when they hit a few threes. You could just tell the game was over.

The main thing is defense. Have to set the tone for the game, especially on the perimeter. @kjayhawks you are right about ASU playing their best game of the year. I watched them in some of their other games and they did not shoot nearly as well in those games as they did against us. This year, they don’t have some of those players, like Holder, but they are still solid. Need to guard the three hard, get out in transition and don’t turn the ball over. If we do those things, I like our chances a lot. Hopefully this one doesn’t join the long line of last game before Christmas stinkers that Self teams seem to have annually.

@JayHawkFanToo excellent post. Kind of sad to see so many fans throwing in the towel on Quentin.

Uh, Moore shot 35% his freshman year at Cal, and Bill Self said in the post game interview that he wasn’t surprised at all. Conclusion - Charlie is a better shooter than what he has shown (outside of last night of course).

@kjayhawks Quentin had several nice moves

A lot of missed opportunities in transition to blow this thing open. Other than that, it’s been pretty good.

Largely, I agree with you. We know what we are going to get from Dedric, Dok and Vick, as well as Dotson to an extent. Quentin takes this team to another level, like final weekend national champion level. Jay echoed our thoughts on Saturday - QG is WAY in his own head right now. You can just see it on his face. Bill would not be starting him if he didn't truly believe Quentin has it in him to do better. I mean, he coached him over the summer and knows how he can play. Its important to give things time and not give up on him, as he is the final piece, IMO, for a championship run.

I think Self will keep starting Grimes in hopes that things will consistently click for him. Who knows where his confidence actually is.

@Fightsongwriter looking at it that way doesn’t matter as much, really. College and the pros are two different games. Plus, it’s amazing how much of a different tune folks are singing in hindsight, when early on everyone was saying there was NO CHANCE last years team could anything they accomplished. The overreactions in December are rearing their ugly head once again, and we’ve already beat four ranked teams and are 9-0 for the first time since 2010-2011 season.

Big Clyde52 said:

@KUSTEVE Conference will be a bear. And this team is not as good as last years team. If DLawson or Vick has an off game, we are very beatable by quite a few teams.

I can not express my disappointment in Q and Charlie enough. I am in hopes that one or both will come around and live up to the hype. Plus if Doke gets back and becomes a force, we may just have a special season. Right now is helter skelter and just getting by.

Interesting how people view past teams in retrospect. Many were saying last December that last years team wouldn’t make the tournament or win the Big 12. Again, pretty silly to make all these statements in December, don’t you think?

@BeddieKU23 we had post depth when Dok wasn’t injured and Silvio was available. Sometimes you have to adjust to the situation.

@Kcmatt7 I agree. Don would have completely shut off the lane for their guy inside. It makes me wonder if Dok’s absence will have much of an effect on Saturday, given that Nova really doesn’t play a traditional post man.

Kcmatt7 said:

Grimes really slipping down draft boards. I'd bet on him being back at this point.

You're calling it this early? You may be right, but there is WAY too much basketball to be played to determine anything at this point.

Folks have to, once again, remember that we go through these discussions EVERY YEAR. EVERY YEAR people say “we aren’t making it past the sweet sixteen” or similar things. Last year was a prime example, same thing with the year before, and yet the past three years Self has had his teams playing final four/championship level basketball in March despite looking disjointed or ugly in the non con.

@JayHawkFanToo good point on Grimes. Needs to be smarter on not getting offensive fouls. Liked his energy though.

Need to switch things up on defense. NMSU either getting open threes or scoring at the rim. Way too easy for them right now.

@approxinfinity on Tuesday he was twenty minutes late, so that was Vick’s own fault.

NMSU seems to be the team with more alertness and toughness.

Very soft play right now at both ends.

@kjayhawks he’s had some really nice offensive showings, the Tennessee game being one of those. I’d say Grant Williams and Scholfied are better than any other forwards in the big 12.

@kjayhawks I think he’s proven he can score on any type of post men. Just struggling today

@JayHawkFanToo i wonder if he got it back?

We would probably get punished anyway since he played in the final four. Leave him out until January then reinstate him.

What a run. Wow

Wow what a pass and catch from Grimes to Dedric