@FarmerJayhawk So this Bangerter fellow mentioned in the article. It caught my eye. He was mentioned in an article after the wiretapping stuff back near the time of Self’s statement. He seemed quite displeased with everything. There was also a radio discussion on him.
What do you know about him?
FarmerJayhawk said:
HighEliteMajor said:
@approxinfinity I’m sure no one cares about the student body president.
Board of Regents is much different.
They fully support Self as of this week
So you know and talk to the Board of Regents members?
@approxinfinity I’m sure no one cares about the student body president.
Board of Regents is much different.
When this Adidas story took hold and Self made his infamous all points denial in October of 2018, one major concern was that the entire mess could lead to Self's exit from the program. We've had lots of discussion the point. I tend think there is significantly more risk of his departure than most here.
One point I raised was that there are other forces beyond Self that could create his exit -- the AD, the school administration, and Board of Regents.
Read this article. I'm sure if you feel there is "now way" Self leaves or is forced out or that "you will believe when you see it" in assessing the risk, this article should cause you some pause.
Look, lots of folks that don't see things the same way many of us do. Lots of folks to whom basketball is not the pilgrimage it is for us.
Stuff like the KSU brawl is just more ammo for folks in positions of influence that might not be completely enamored with what has transpired.
It just creates even more risk.
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2020/jan/22/board-regents-chair-student-body-president-concern/ ↗
@Crimsonorblue22 In another thread you posted, "Big Dave standing up for his brother. Same for Marcus." Right. Exactly right. That's exactly what the KSU players were doing when Silvio escalated and stood over him. You would expect that. You can say that the KSU guys were "standing up for their brother" too. It works both ways. The KSU guys came and got in Silvio's face to stand up for their brother.
@Crimsonorblue22 Don't really even understand your last two comments. Where was Jeff Long supposed to be? He's the AD?
It is just complete baloney to somehow attempt to pin this on the KSU kid that stole the ball. It's the ultimate passing the buck. I've seen the comments elsewhere from KU fans and it's just embarrassing. Sorry, Silvio stood over the guy, taunted him. Undeniable. That's line that got crossed. And so you know, part of that taunting is basically hanging your junk (guy's junk) over the top of the opponent -- more lovely "cultural" cancer there. But since you like making d*** references, thought we could give it more contextual application here. Soren Petro on 810 addressed that a while back in the football arena with how players much of the time.
But sure, let's call the KSU player a d***. How hard is it to accept that Silvio was just dead wrong and move on?
Right all the army guys want to do is get drunk and start fights. Sure. Great info.
Bilas is really a voice of reason on this and it's well thought out. Perhaps the best statement I've seen anywhere on this entire deal. Vitale calling it "criminal" was laughable.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Doke did it once, once! Now,😇 think self had something to do w/that! Jeez! These kids have been great. Anybody listen to hawk talk? Some of you try to find fault.
Well, and some discount the power and influence of a coach. Some try not to find the "why". Some seek to simply and think that negative stuff happens in a vacuum. When conduct is prohibited and there are real penalties -- when a coach understands where stuff like that can lead -- it can have a great impact on whether the conduct occurs. Poor sportsmanship and conduct have been tolerated in my view. Others may disagree.
This is one of those, "See what can happen when you don't have strict rules" situations.
BeddieKU23 said:
Man silvio's sincere statement reminds of all he has been through here. Hopefully he can put this behind him.
Not being too cynical, but as @approxinfinity pointed out, that statement was surely crafted for him. That's ok. I understand why.
I'm sure he's sorry. That's a given for me. I'm sure everyone's sorry when they do stupid things. But he has completely embarrassed KU basketball at a really bad time for more embarrassment, much of which centers on his dealings with KU (via his guardian).
I just don't want to see him play here again. My opinion. I know that most probably disagree. This isn't a felony, or a crime against humanity, he didn't hurt anyone -- I get that. He stood over a guy, then got caught up in the melee I which he was an active participant (I'm always good with someone defending themselves; he was more active than that. He pursued too), then inexplicably picked up a chair over his head as if he was going to use it. That's what this was. The worst part is the reflection on our program.
This was too much for me, coupled with what his recruitment has brought to us. I'd like to see him play elsewhere next season and transfer. A fresh start for him, too. Hopefully, as with many folks that make mistakes, they learn and are better for it. I bet that's the case here.
I will say, though, that Bill Self is to blame here in large part. The act of standing over the opposing player was the act that got this going. It was the first negative thing DeSousa did. Those acts in the past have never been objectively punished by Self. I've never seen him get really angry with a player that has done that before. That's a big consideration for me.
If Self banned that conduct, made it completely unacceptable. A player will get an internal suspension for it, it wouldn't happen. Self has never made any statement about that being a prohibited conduct.
@benshawks08 Agree we don’t know. I’m just not presuming that he didn’t know.
To echo @Crimsonorblue22, we have very high character guys on this team it would appear. Remember when the Monmouth punk stole ball and screamed? Enaruna just calmly ignored it. Dotson is really cool. Garrett always a player to be proud of. Agbaji perhaps the perfect demeanor. Braun is also impressive. Doke has had a few flexing, posing, standing over opponent incidents. Hope this gets him going the other way. Sad that this happened with this great group of guys.
@benshawks08 We should not assume he didn’t know. I’m not believing anyone much that has an interest in this, and certainly not Self. What about the UA payment?
@SlickRockJayhawk Paying a minor’s guardian is the same thing as paying a minor. Not something to get concerned about. The point is it was dirty.
BShark said:
I will be shocked if Marcus is suspended but I've been shocked before. Maybe Ochai and Marcus get a single game. I'm finding it hard to be outraged over this though. Yes it was a big pile of stupid but just suspend guys (on both teams) and move on.
Not outraged? I guess this is all within the realm of reasonableness.
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Uh, no. Block the shot, high five your teammates, all smiles, game over. Easy.
@BigBad @cragarhawk FBI, lying, embarrassment at Late Night, now this. Ugh. I’m interested to hear from Self on this.
So perhaps the worst decision Self ever made — “Hey, let’s recruit Silvio DeSousa.”
bskeet said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
rockchalkwyo said:
I’m glad Silvio stared him down. They stole the ball while we’re having the clock run out and Silvio had a bad a$$ block. KSU started it by rushing SDS. What I do not like, and I mean DO NOT LIKE is the chair The rest is a blur for me. It seems like David and Garrett tried to separate players.
Silvio needed to walk away after the block, that's ultimately what started everything was Silvio not walking away after the block.
True.. although, it could also be argued that the start was the meaningless steal and attempt to score when down by 22 with 2 seconds left..
No, that can’t be argued at all. Not one bit. Silvio swatted him. Perfect ending. But then made the choice to be a thug.
I wonder if Silvio will be suspended with or without pay?
benshawks08 said:
BigBad said:
MANY men would fight out of embarrassment.Ding ding ding! There it is. Toxic masculinity for the win.
The disgusting leftist.
As I said -- "If Self is attempting to inspire this, he’s an idiot. But I’ve seen Self’s teams walk over opponents without a negative word from Self, and have seen us fail/refuse to offer help opponents up and just walk away as a regular course of conduct."
@benshawks08 Hate? Is that what you think I feel? No, I don't think like leftist. It's disgust.
I've only positioned this topic as my disgust for moral depravity. My disgust, as you will note, is that the death of three or four black folks in the inner city is back page news. The reason it's backpage news is everyone -- folks like you -- are so afraid to confront it. In part, because folks are scared of being called a racist. Exactly what you do in response. A few folks at a restaurant in a nice California suburb get shot, and it's national news. A mass shooting. Calls for gun bans. Inner city shootings? Not much of peep. It's always the gun or the white man. I blame a culture -- a culture that is bankrupt -- for this horrific violence. Jason Whitlock called it cultural rot. Free your mind.
Interesting conversations this week. My response on the call for screaming and chest pounding, and alleged emotion. My post that created some anger. This from the team and coach that rarely if ever extend a hand to help an opponent off the ground over many seasons. The tolerance of horrible conduct has spanned many seasons. Agbaji, Braun, and Garrett have been exceptions this season. Perhaps that's more what Self should inspire:
I’ll take this every day over what has become the norm — pounding chests and screaming. I doubt this more reserved, respectful approach has cost us anything. The “look at me” athlete has nothing on Barry Sanders, Marcus Allen, Dr. J, etc.
Joyful emotion is different. That has always been a positive part of sports.
But the look at me b.s, flexing, screaming, pounding the chest, bobbing the head, all that stupid gyrating crap, is the disgusting part of team sports.
Quite simply, a product of not being taught how to act like a man.
If Self is attempting to inspire this, he’s an idiot. But I’ve seen Self’s teams walk over opponents without a negative word from Self, and have seen us fail/refuse to offer help opponents up and just walk away as a regular course of conduct.
This season I’ve seen Agbaji offer to help opponents up. Garett too. Kids that were raised the right way. Hopefully Self doesn’t coach that out of them.
Thank you, DeSousa, standing over our opponent like a thug helps prove a point. Look, this is destructive. It's a cancer. It's infected all of sports. Where did all this come from? I wonder.
And on Braun and the 4/1 vs. starting McCormack? Self acknowledging our best lineup yet, inexplicably, running out Doke and Dave together:
@BeddieKU23 You’re right. He’s not. He just answered the question. He knows it too. We all know it. Playing Doke and Dave together, but for a perfect match-up situation, is irrationality. He can’t give a logical reason to do so. If chemistry gives us the better +/-, fine. But it doesn’t (Saturday was an outlier).
We have to stomach the bad and commit to Braun. Four minutes is a joke. We have no idea what the next 4, 8, or 12 minutes would have looked like. If Self didn’t play Braun because he sucked in his four minutes, Self is foolish. Really, Self played Dave because he thought it was best TODAY. Completely short- sighted. And Dave was so-so today. One nice stretch.
This goes to Self’s historical over emphasis on the regular season. What do we need to be in March? Does he really care about March or the precious Big 12?
We should play 4/1 ALL THE TIME even if it means a loss. All the time. We won’t get to the FF piece-mealing this. And we won’t get to the FF as a 3/2 team.
We need to try and perfect what gives us a title chance, and play the players necessary to reach our peak. My opinion.
It is completely irrational to massage an “ego” (if that’s the reason) and compromise winning an NC this season.
Next season there’s a very reasonable chance we’re not in the tourney anyway. But forgetting that for a moment, it’s still completely irrational.
This is worse than many other instances where we question Self because he has admitted clearly the composition of our best lineup and scheme. His own words.
Let’s not think that “Self knows.” He admitted back a few years ago that he didn’t know. That our view of three point shooting was correct and he was wrong. Further, lack of FFs and NCs with consistent top 5 rosters would seem to indicate the man doesn’t have all the answers. We just went a full decade without a national championship and only sniffing it once (2012).
posted in KU Basketball.
@benshawks08 Your stupid responses are predictable. Run along little fella. Tough day tomorrow, you know, poisoning our youth. It's everyone else's fault.
And this country you hate, you know, saved the entire world from the the ultimate tyranny and totalitarianism. This country you hate rescued humanity from darkness.
@benshawks08 You can argue whatever you want. I don't need a "good faith argument" with you. No scurry back and teach our youths to blame the evil white man for building the greatest nation the earth has ever known. An inspiring tale of blame, defeatism, and victimization I'm sure that you'll teach. Run along now before I drop your britches and spank you bright red, little one. Meantime, I'll be on the lookout for this huge outbreak of white supremacist violence (red herring to fit your pathetic narrative) that is allegedly so dangerous. Now, run along.
@benshawks08 No, I look down on leftists like you. The folks that have staked a claim to ruining this country.
@Crimsonorblue22 Oh, so because you have daughters, I can't joke about women's breasts. Tough darts.
@benshawks08 Oh, right, little leftists are offended when female anatomy is referenced or joked about. Save it for someone who cares.
@jayballer73 He doth protest too much, me thinks. You like to attack but when you get just a smidge back, even very subtly, you freak out like you've been shot. Thanks for the laugh.
@benshawks08 You can say whatever your want. You can rationalize whatever you want. I'm not perpetuating anything. You act as it it's not true. Everything is something to consider or blame with people like you other than race. As if the most easily identifiable trait, the trait that binds cultures and groups of people more than anything else doesn't have a large and overwhelming impact in how folks act and behave. That's just ignoring reality. You act is if there isn't an inner city black culture. That's stupidity. Not stupidity, really, dishonesty. We see it every day.
You made the asinine statement about knowing single moms that do better than two parent homes, as if you made some intelligent point. Of course. That's not the point. The vast majority is the other way. Two parent household has a major advantage raising kids. The single mom (which is usually is) faces huge challenges. No, pansy liberals like you don't like the idea that two parent homes are actually BETTER than single parent homes. But that challenges the pansy liberal who wants there to be moral equivalence in any behavior.
Further, it challenges liberals to even talk about valuing life. You know why. You know what you think. You know what rationalizations you make in your mind. And it challenges you to even agree that a two parent household is better. Lefties can't bring themselves to even concede that.
You act as if certain black men don't act a certain way because they are a part of culture. Of course, you ignore stats and real numbers. Just watch the black athlete. Heck, watch the Chiefs players. Last night after the game -- Listen to Frank Clark, listen to Tyreek Hill, then listen to Pat Mahomes. Quite a difference. The former two can barely speak, can't enunciate words, spew profanity, and act like thugs. Gold teeth anyone? Domestic violence anyone? They act that way because they worship that culture. They're part of it. They glorify it. Pat Mahomes, the opposite.
Two parent households, working together, for their children. Teaching proper lessons. Value life. Respect others. Supervision. Hard work. Help with homework. Guidance. Treat women with respect. Value life (again). Don't hurt people. That's what's missing.
Racist? I don't give one rip what you think. It's that culture and embracing of that culture that kills people on nighty basis. It isn't white people killing blacks. Thug mentality.
Try this, come to KCMO and walk down 53rd and Brooklyn, or 42nd and Troost, you know, around 9:30 pm. Go see the best in people. I'm sure you'll get some of that in return.
@jayballer73 Not sure why UK is your point of focus. Why not UNC or Duke? Or Nova? Well, we know why. At least with UK you have some argument. But that proves my point further. With UK you still lose.
If I was a UK fan I'd drive my car off a cliff. That's what I'd do. But I'd sneak a peak at Ashley Jugs, er, Judd before doing that.
But really, first, I'd look at my eight rings. And then compare to KU's three as noted above. KU has a touch more urgency to get up with the big boys in that most important arena.
Second, I'd realize that I won one in 2012, this past decade, while KU didn't.
Third, I'd notice that I went to the FF in 2011, 2012, 2014, and 2015. KU went in 2012 and 2016 while Cal was coaching there.
Fourth, I'd notice that I sniffed the NC twice, winning one (Since Cal arrived). KU sniffed it once.
Fifth, I'd notice that Cal did what he did in six less seasons than Self.
Sixth, I'd notice that I didn't get busted by the FBI, doing stupid texting, and then lying about it.
But I'd rather have Self than Cal. That's not a discussion point for me. His lying related to the FBI has made me waver a bit on things though generally.
Obviously you see a factual statement or an slight as being that "people want to bag on Self." I'll bag on Self if I want to. Just the facts. And many facts weigh in Self's favor.
Instead of responding like a fool and cursing, and claiming folks are "rant and cuss and holler" or whatever you tried to say, maybe remove your lips from Self's backside and breath.
It is completely irrational to massage an "ego" (if that's the reason) and compromise winning an NC this season.
Next season there's a very reasonable chance we're not in the tourney anyway. But forgetting that for a moment, it's still completely irrational.
This is worse than many other instances where we question Self because he has admitted clearly the composition of our best lineup and scheme. His own words.
Let's not think that "Self knows." He admitted back a few years ago that he didn't know. That our view of three point shooting was correct and he was wrong. Further, lack of FFs and NCs with consistent top 5 rosters would seem to indicate the man doesn't have all the answers. We just went a full decade without a national championship and only sniffing it once (2012).
@BeddieKU23 You're right. He's not. He just answered the question. He knows it too. We all know it. Playing Doke and Dave together, but for a perfect match-up situation, is irrationality. He can't give a logical reason to do so. If chemistry gives us the better +/-, fine. But it doesn't (Saturday was an outlier).
@drgnslayr From a coaching perspective, do you agree that you can't create emotions in guys that are more stoic, and naturally don't show the emotion? It's changing a guy's DNA. Personally, I think that's a recruiting item. I like guys that are intense. I don't understand guys that aren't. Dedric Lawson was a good example. Perry Ellis to a large extent. If we want a certain team personality it starts with the type of guys you bring in. Look at our main 8 guys in 2008. All played with emotion, but that wasn't contrived by the coach. I'd rather have intense guys you have to dial back. That said, calmer guys, more stoic guys, can fit. But if you have a team of them, it is a difficulty I think. But of course guys who are more intense may be "acting" more reserved, hesitant to show too much. That's a bit different. I just don't see Agbaji, Garrett, or Dotson as highly intense guys (appearances). Inside they may be, but the topic is showing it I think.
benshawks08 said:
I also know a lot of single moms that are way better than most two parent households.
It is so laughable. Yea, there are some people that can take pain killers and not be addicts. But it’s still an epidemic. It’s still destructive. Are you an idiot?
It’s because black males see it as a badge of honor to impregnate as many women as they can. No, not all black males. But it’s the real problem in the inner city.
Police say 2 dead, possibly 15 injured in Kansas City bar shooting
https://www.foxnews.com/us/2-dead-possibly-15-injured-in-missouri-shooting ↗
See you would complain about these folks going to jail. Don’t commit crimes. Difficult for those of your mindset.
Rap away, worship violence, explain away moral depravity. You must sleep well at night.
@dylans Of course, it had nothing to do with Self. It was getting VCU to the FF.
@Crimsonorblue22 It’s the one that got him that job. And yea, he’s toast.
One of those wins by Shaka was the only one that really mattered.
I think that it is a very regular occurrence that coaches play to perform in March. Duke and UK are two that plainly have done that. Nova the same. Gary Parish was on with Soren Petro last week discussing the same topic. Parish was saying he isn’t smart enough to criticize Self but pointed out the clear contrast in approach.
I’m focused on the 4/1. Dave and Doke together are a disaster. Today was the outlier. Look at the +/- posted by @BeddieKU23 this past week.
Would you agree that the more you do something and have experience, the better you can be? The answer is obvious. In fact, there are Self quotes in the past few years about how getting game experience is very important. Which is obvious.
Right, but Self, myopically, plays him 4 today because of this useless game. How he sees winning today. This demonstrates the absurdity of the PT today. We have just one NC in his tenure. One NC in 32 years.
All we have to achieve that is of value is the NC. We’ve achieved everything else.
@BShark Kind of a David game. But that’s really the issue. If we are half in on Dave 3/2, half in on 4/1, we compromise our ability to reach our peak one way or the other.
We have to stomach the bad and commit to Braun. Four minutes is a joke. We have no idea what the next 4, 8, or 12 minutes would have looked like. If Self didn’t play Braun because he sucked in his four minutes, Self is foolish. Really, Self played Dave because he thought it was best TODAY. Completely short- sighted. And Dave was so-so today. One nice stretch.
This goes to Self’s historical over emphasis on the regular season. What do we need to be in March? Does he really care about March or the precious Big 12?
We should play 4/1 ALL THE TIME even if it means a loss. All the time. We won’t get to the FF piece-mealing this. And we won’t get to the FF as a 3/2 team.
We need to try and perfect what gives us a title chance, and play the players necessary to reach our peak. My opinion.
@BShark I see Braun’s development as critical to our chances in March. Otherwise we have no 5th perimeter player. Dave will be irrelevant in many games.
Braun playing 4 minutes. Self is sealing our fate here in typical Self fashion.
Some coaches play for March. Some don't. He doesn't. He's probably more worried about winning a meaningless conference title.
@kjayhawks There are different lines of acceptability for everyone. Of course you can play with emotion and not be taunting. That’s obvious. Again there seems to be a reasonable line.
I’ll take this every day over what has become the norm — pounding chests and screaming. I doubt this more reserved, respectful approach has cost us anything. The “look at me” athlete has nothing on Barry Sanders, Marcus Allen, Dr. J, etc.
Joyful emotion is different. That has always been a positive part of sports.
But the look at me b.s, flexing, screaming, pounding the chest, bobbing the head, all that stupid gyrating cr*p, is the disgusting part of team sports.
Quite simply, a product of not being taught how to act like a man.
If Self is attempting to inspire this, he’s an idiot. But I’ve seen Self’s teams walk over opponents without a negative word from Self, and have seen us fail/refuse to offer help opponents up and just walk away as a regular course of conduct.
This season I’ve seen Agbaji offer to help opponents up. Garett too. Kids that were raised the right way. Hopefully Self doesn’t coach that out of them.
Self should focus on the Xs and Os. His scheming and prep. And focus on doing his job better.
@BeddieKU23 Well, yes, I do know that TT made the FF. Since OK St. made it in 2004, only OU in '16 and TT in '19 have made the FF from the Big 12 other than KU - '08, '12, '18. That is simply horrible. 15 seasons. 60 spots. And the Big 12 fills those spots just 5 times. Only 8.3% of the FF participants were Big 12.
We are not in the top 50 scoring wise. I like advanced stats. I do. But what I see with this team, against decent opponents, I see an offensive team that struggles. KenPom says 12 or 13? Not close. I'd suggest, totally subjectively, that we're outside the top 25 offensively right now. Again, just what I'm feeling -- seeing lots of CBB over the years, lots of KU offenses, etc. Now, boost our three point % a bit, shoot some more threes, pick up the pace a bit, meaning create more possessions to limit our risk ratio vs. lesser opponents? That's what I'd like to see.
Isn’t +/- everything?
We know what we see. 4/1.
KD was excellent. The Chiefs montage was excellenter. Farrah Fawcett was excellentest. Was the subject of my favorite poster of all time. Well maybe second to Dr. J.
@Kcmatt7 Our league is never the best league. Never has been the best league. Always irrelevant discussions about how good the bottom half of the league is. I don’t care how good teams are alleged to be that don’t make the tourney. They suck. We can’t even get non-KU teams to the FF. And we only made it twice in a decade. Fatten up on a weak league. Decades of dearth. Any league where one team wins 13 times in a row isn’t that good at all. We have no quality 2nd or 3rd team. Wichita St. would be the 2nd best program if they were in our league. Every year I hear how KenPom claims how good the Big 12 is. Evidence proves otherwise. There are 4 FF spots (obviously) and we regularly get none.
My humble opinion is that “good looks” don’t matter. Final Fours and NCs do.
KenPom is illusion
We’re 12th in offense? My eyes don’t lie. That’s bunk. Again, just an opinion from my little mind.
Ah, but will he be "ready" in Self's eyes?
KenPom's credibility takes a further hit ...