🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Houston – It didn’t take long for the Kansas Jayhawks to get going in Houston Friday night. And they kept going until final buzzer. In a stunningly dominating performance, the #1 seed in the South region completely dominated the #5 Ohio St. Buckeyes, winning 87-60. This was KU's first meeting with Ohio St. since the 2012 Final Four match-up, also won by Kansas.

The win by Kansas sets up a match-up Sunday against Kentucky (5:09 pm/CBS) in the Elite Eight. The Wildcats defeated Louisville in the first game of the night, 70-61, in Houston. UK Coach John Calipari mentioned after the game that Louisville was the team he was “most concerned with” in the region, perhaps giving Kansas some bulletin-board material heading into Sunday. Calipari later clarified, stating that he was referring to the "intrastate nature" of the game.

Either way, it was Kansas that was clearly the most impressive team of the night. The number one team in the nation overpowered the Big 10 tournament champs in every phase of the game.

Self felt the first half Friday was perhaps Kansas’ best half of the season, all without senior big man Udoka Azubuike, who missed the game with an injured left wrist. Azubuike suffered no struggle damage it was reported earlier in the day from a practice mishap on Monday. His status is doubtful for Sunday.

“Did we miss Doke? Sure. He’s the best player in the country in my opinion. But our guys really stepped up, especially Dot,” Self said. “To be honest, I’m not sure we played a better half of basketball this season on both ends of the floor. That was an epic half of basketball. The second half we kind of cruised.”

Epic indeed. Kansas scored 52 first half points, just four less than their entire output against LSU last Sunday. KU turned the ball over only twice in the first 20 minutes and held Ohio St. to 32% shooting from the field while drilling 72% of their own opening half shots.

Ohio St. scored the first basket of the game, then watched Kansas rattle off 13 unanswered points on five consecutive possessions. Sophomore Devon Dotson drilled a three point basket for KU’s first score. After a block of Ohio St. forward Andre Wesson by Kansas sophomore Ochai Agbaji, Dotson fed Marcus Garrett for a fast break bucket. Garrett then stole the inbounds pass and returned favor, feeding Dotson for an easy layup.

After a Buckeye miss, Agbaji scored again, this time from three point range, making it a 10-2 game. Ohio St. sophomore Duane Washington, Jr., then fumbled a Wesson pass, which was scooped by Dotson for another bucket. Dotson was fouled on the play by Washington, and converted the free throw. OSU coach Chris Holtman was forced to call a timeout at the 17:58 mark, down 13-2.

Ohio St. never saw the margin fall to less than double-digits as Kansas stretched the lead to 19-3 following the timeout. Buckeyes C.J. Walker was fouled by KU guard Christian Braun on dunk attempt. After Walker converted one of two free throws, Kansas drilled two consecutive three pointers – one by Braun and another by Dotson, and the lead was 16.

“They sure came out fast. We were obviously not ready to play,” said Holtman, “That is completely on me. We laid an egg. It’s very disappointing.”

The Buckeyes trailed 52-29 at the half and Kansas cruised to the win. KU even scored the last seven points of the game, after getting a reminder from their coach about their late game slide against LSU in the previous round.

“He was yelling ‘finish the game’ over and over,” said Dotson, ”He sounded like (Patrick) Mahomes.”

Kansas forced 21 turnovers by the Buckeyes. Garrett had 6 steals, Dotson 4. The Jayhawks were led in scoring by Dotson, who had 26. Agbaji was next with 17 on five of seven shooting from behind the arc. Sophomore David McCormack, starting for Azubuike, led KU with 9 rebounds. Junior Silvio DeSousa added 8 points off the bench for KU. Walker led Ohio St. with 14 points.

The #1 Kansas/#2 Kentucky winner will face the winner of the West. #4 Oregon, who pulled the upset of #1 Gonzaga earlier in the evening, 79-75, will play #2 Villanova in Los Angeles for a Final Four berth (2:14 pm/TBS). The Wildcats dispatched #11 Indiana, 69-59.

Thursday’s games set the other half of the bracket. #1 Baylor fell to #4 Michigan St. Thursday in New York, 66-63. The Spartans will play #2 San Diego St. at 5:12 pm Saturday on TBS. The Aztecs won in double-overtime over #6 Michigan, 90-89 in a thrilling back and forth battle Thursday that some have said was the game of the tournament to date.

In the Midwest, #1 Dayton pummeled #3 Duke, 78-63, and will face the defending champions, #6 Virginia at 7:49 pm Saturday on CBS. The Cavaliers trailed the entire game against #10 St. Mary’s, but finished on an 8-0 run to stop the Gaels, 53-50, for back-to-back Elite Eight appearances. Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski apologized earlier Friday for his late game ejection against Dayton calling it "a momentary lapse in judgment."

Lawrence - Following an afternoon practice, Kansas coach Bill Self offered optimistic news on two Jayhawks, but some grim news for another.

Jayhawks big man Udoka Azubuike is out for the game Friday vs. Ohio St. While his x-ray was negative, the fear is that there is ligament damage that could sideline him for good this season. Self was clearly agitated with the entire topic. "How many times is this going to happen to this kid? Look, we don't know yet. We know it's not broken. It's more swollen today. We know he's out this Friday and if we were to get to Sunday, I wouldn't put my money on it."

But on the bright side, Self said that junior Marcus Garrett and sophomore Ochai Agbaji are a "full go" for Friday. While Garrett was limited in practice, he seemed mobile on the floor and sounded positive. "I'm good. Coach Self says I'm good so I'm good," Garrett said with a smile.

Agbaji, meanwhile, wore a neoprene sleeve on this right elbow. Self said he just had a little soreness near the "funny bone" but that it wasn't an injury.

Self said the team was "focused and sharp" in practice Tuesday. They will head to Houston on Wednesday.

In the South region in Houston, #1 Kansas will tip off against #5 Ohio St. at 8:39 pm (all times Central) on Friday. That game will be preceded at 6:08 pm by #3 Louisville (29-7) against #2 Kentucky (30-6). The winner of the South regional will face off in the Final Four against the winner of the West regional. In Los Angeles, the West, also played on Friday, will match #1 Gonzaga (34-2) and #4 Oregon (28-8) at 6:29 pm and #11 Indiana (22-13) and #2 Villanova (29-7), which has a 8:57 pm tip-off.

On the other side of the bracket, the East regional games at New York start on Thursday with #1 Baylor (30-5) taking on #4 Michigan State (24-9) at 6:05, followed by an 8:33 pm tilt between #6 Michigan (23-13) and #2 San Diego St. (34-3). That same evening, in Indianapolis, the Midwest regional will start at 6:34 pm with defending national champion #6 Virginia (26-8) battling #10 St. Mary's (28-8). #1 Dayton (34-2) will take on #4 Duke (27-7) in the last game Thursday, starting at 8:52 pm.

National basketball writers and TV personalities have adjusted their Final Four predictions heading into the Sweet 16. Here is a sampling -

-Jay Bilas - Kansas, Gonzaga, San Diego St., Duke

-Jay Williams - Kentucky, Villanova, San Diego St., Duke

-Doug Gottlieb - Kentucky, Gonzaga, Michigan, Dayton

-Jeff Goodman - Kentucky, Gonzaga, Baylor, Dayton

-Pat Forde - Kentucky, Villanova, Baylor, Duke

-Gary Parrish - Kansas, Villanova, Michigan St., St. Mary's

-Rob Dauster - Kentucky, Gonzaga, Baylor, Dayton

-Eamonn Brennan - Louisville, Gonzaga, Baylor, Duke

-Seth Davis - Kentucky, Gonzaga, San Diego St., Duke

-Andy Katz - Kansas, Villanova, Michigan St., Dayton

-Mike DeCoursey - Kansas, Villanova, Baylor, Virginia

-Jason King - Kansas, Oregon, Michigan St., Dayton

Lawrence – The Jayhawks are dealing with another rash of injuries. The injury issues could not come at a worse time.

Kansas coach Bill Self reported Monday that senior center Udoka Azubuike “jammed” his left wrist in a fall at practice that day. Self told the assemble press contingent, “It swelled up pretty good. We’re going to let that settle down a bit and get x-rays sometime today. Doc (Jeff) Randall doesn’t think it’s broken. But we’ll see.”

Azubuike has dealt with wrist injuries during his career at Kansas, missing most of the 2016-17 season, and then another wrist injury caused him to miss the second half of the last year's campaign.

When asked about Azubuike’s availability for the Jayhawks’ 6:35 pm Sweet 16 tip Friday in Houston against Ohio St., Self was non-committal. “There is just no way for me to know, Self said. If Azubuike can't go in Friday's game, sophomore David McCormack would start in his place.

More bad news on the injury front as junior Marcus Garrett has a hamstring issue and did not participate in the work out. Garrett, who has dealt with an ankle injury much of the season, speculated that it was related to that same ankle. “Yea, when I try to protect my ankle, my other hamstring gets tight. Today it was really painful. I had trouble walking for a while,” Garrett said.

Self added that Garrett “will play”, but hedged later saying “we’re hopeful.”

Finally, sophomore Ochai Agbaji practiced Monday, but was seen with a tight wrap on his right elbow afterward. No information was available as Self had already spoken prior to the observation of Agbagi's condition.

As of Monday, Ohio State reported no injuries.

Omaha - Bill Self told his team before the game to relax and play their game. They did -- defensively. The Jayhawks just couldn't get the ball in the hoop, but did play to their high level on the defensive end, beating LSU 56-48. Kansas will face Ohio St. in Houston, heading for yet another Sweet 16 appearance after bowing out early last season. According to coach Self, a win is a win, and the win means familiar territory for coach Self, who now has 11 Sweet 16 appearance in his tenure at KU.

"Ugly. More than ugly. That was atrocious," Self said after the game, "I have no idea how we can miss so many open shots. But we won. That's what counts. The name of the game in March is just finding a way to win."

Luckily for Kansas, the Tigers from Baton Rouge couldn't find the hoop either. But LSU's challenges were greatly related to KU's stifling defense. In the first half, the Tigers didn't even attempt a shot on two straight possessions where the shot clock expired. On two other consecutive possessions, their shots didn't even draw iron. Kansas defense was oppressive.

LSU coach Will Wade was impressed. Wade extolled the strength of KU's defenders, "That's the best defensive team I've ever seen. We just couldn't get anything going. They're so quick and long. (Marcus) Garrett's everywhere. They're always in the right spots. And then there's the beast inside."

That beast was Udoka Azubuike. The 6'11" senior blocked a career high 8 shots and pulled down 16 rebounds, 14 on the defensive end. On the other end of the court, Azubuike controlled the game inside, scoring 21 points in a uncharacteristically poor shooting night -- going 9 of 18 from the field. Azubuike, who leads the nation in shooting percentage at 78.5% heading into the game, missed two dunks and was challenged by LSU's double-teams and sometime triple teams in the post.

"We tried. He's just big and strong," said LSU freshman Trendon Waford. "I'm not sure what else we could have done. I guess we could have shot better," Watford added.

One of Azubuike's best plays of the game was a lob pass out of a triple team to KU sophomore Ochai Agbaji, for thunderous one hand dunk. Azubuike did have 5 turnovers but with LSU's inability to score, that had little impact.

LSU was downright bad from the field. When a shot wasn't contested, the Tigers couldn't capitalize on open looks, going 3 of 15 from the three point line and shooting 34% total from the field. The only thing that kept LSU close was their free throw shooting. The Tigers went 12 of 15 from the free throw line, including sophomore Ja'Vonte Smart, who was successful on 8 of 10 attempts from the charity stripe. Smart also led the Tigers with 14 points. Watford chipped in 12.

On the Kansas side, Christian Braun got the start of senior Isaiah Moss and scored 11, as did sophomore Devon Dotson. Both Braun and Dotson fouled out late in the game. Kansas led 44-30 when Dotson fouled out at the 5:35 mark of the second half. Braun fouled out on the next possession. But it didn't matter.

Kansas jumped to a 7-0 lead to start the game, and after LSU cut the lead to 7-2, LSU never got closer than the final margin of 8 points as Kansas jumped to a 17-5 lead at the 4:00 minute TV time out. With at 24-15 lead at halftime, Kansas defense set the tone for the rest of the game. At least until the end.

Over the last two plus minutes of the game, LSU outscored Kansas 13-1, with Kansas missing 7 of 8 free throws. LSU, down 20, 55-35, started fouling at the 2:20 mark of the second half. But Kansas couldn't convert. "We're better than that," said senior Marcus Garrett. "It's all about focus and just executing. In a tighter game, that could have cost us." Garrett missed 3 of 4 free throws in that stretch. Dotson, who leads Kansas at 83% from the line, missed all four of his attempts. "Really just unacceptable," Dotson said of the late game free throw shooting. Adding to the late game issues was Moss, who made two unforced turnovers, one directly under the Tiger's basket. The senior transfer drew coach Self's ire in the opening round and was replaced by Braun in the starting lineup. Self was less than pleased with Moss this afternoon, as well.

"We probably should have started (fouling) earlier. I thought we might get something going and then it was too late", said Wade. The Kansas lead seemed to stay consistent around 10 - 15 points most of the second half, but consecutive three pointers by Braun and Dotson pushed the lead to 19 just inside the 7:00 minute mark, and the game was all but over.

One can suspect from Self's post-game comments that the Jayhawks are in for a few tough practices heading into next weekend. "Maybe. We'll see," Self said with wry grin. "I'll have to be careful not to wear them out. The games don't get easier. Somehow, though, we've got play better."

Ohio St. (25-10), the South region's 5 seed, beat Butler 66-60 earlier in the date in Cleveland. Joining the Jayhawks (33-3) and Buckeyes in Houston will be #3 seeded Louisville and #2 seeded Kentucky. The Cardinals squeaked by #11 seed East Tennessee St., 74-71 earlier in Tampa. Kentucky played their first and second round games in St. Louis. After winning over the 15 seeded Northern Kentucky on a controversial non-call on Friday, the Wildcats paved their way to Houston, beating #10 Texas Tech 75-65.

The NCAA turned down Northern Kentucky's protest earlier today. Replays, available to the officials in the arena, showed a last second shot by the Norse senior Dantez Walton to be on a downward arc when tipped by UK's Nick Richards. Officials refused to make a goal-tending call and give Northern Kentucky the basket, which would have resulted in 71-70 win. Instead, it was UK that advanced to play the Red Raiders.

Game times have not been announced, but the Houston regional will play Friday/Sunday.

Omaha - Only one 16 seed has ever beaten a #1 seed. Friday evening it was close -- for about 10 minutes. The top seeded Kansas Jayhawks, playing in the South bracket, took care of business Friday night, pounding the Anteaters from UC-Irvine, 88-59. Early, things looked a little dicey for the overall number one seed.

UC-Irvine jumped out to a 6-0 lead when forward Collin Welp drilled two three pointers on the Anteaters first two possessions. After a turnover by Devon Dotson, Evan Leonard hit a three of his own to make it 9-0. Ochai Agbagi got KU on the board with a runner in the lane but UC-Irvine followed with a pair of buckets and a resulting 13-2 lead. Kansas fought back to make it 13-7 on a three pointer by Dotson and a typically thunderous dunk by Udoka Azubuike. But it was UC-Irvine that grabbed the momentum, jumping to a 19-7 lead near the midpoint of the first half.

Welp, a 6'9" sophomore, who got only his third start of the season, was hot from the the opening tip. The team's leading scorer on the season, despite usually being the team's 6th man, scored 14 of his team's first 19 points.

After a Welp 10 footer, Kansas coach Bill Self had seen enough and called a time out to try to steady the ship. It was obvious Self was agitated, getting into an animated discussion with senior transfer Isaiah Moss moments into the time out. But then, after a word from assistant coach Kurtis Townsen, Self simply asked his team to listen.

"We heard them", said KU junior Marcus Garrett, "and coach made us listen." The Jayhawks took clear note of the "KU ... UVA" chant from the small contingent of UC-Irvine fans that made the trip to Omaha.

"At first I thought, 'hey, Virginia won the national title last year'", said coach Self, "but coach T (Townsend) just whispered to me, '16 over a one'. Then I got it." The Irvine fans were reminding Kansas that they were at risk of suffering the fate of Virginia, who became first top seed to lose to a #16 seed in 2018.

Armed with the idea that KU, the overall number seed and winner of both Big 12 regular season title and conference tournament, might lose in opening round, the Jayhawks simply caught fire.

The leading scorer on the night was Devon Dotson, with 22 points. Dotson, a sophomore who is likely in his last season at KU, sparked the surge with 13 points in the final 10 minutes of the the first half. Freshman Christian Braun hit a pair of three pointers and fed Agbagi for an incredible lob dunk to conclude the half. Suddenly, KU was up 37-23.

The Irvine coach was impressed. "You see a team from afar, you watch film, you watch highlights, but you never really appreciate the best teams until you see them up close," said Russ Turner, in his 10th season on the bench for the Anteaters. "That team can play some D. Of course, they are one of the best coached teams in country," Turner added.

Coach Self, though, was having none of that. "I'm not sure what we were doing out there. I think Doke was sleep walking. Maybe the win Saturday (over Baylor, 77-71) took a bit out of us. Marcus is still hobbled. Ochai has a hand thing. Heck, everyone has something. I've got a slight cough and a bit of a fever, but I'll stick it out. In the huddle, with the guys, is where I need to be. But we had better be more focused, though. Quite frankly, Christian was the one that got us going."

Braun, who finished with 14 points, replaced Moss midway through the first half and seemed to spark the team with his hustle. "That block was amazing", said David McCormack. The sophomore center was referring to Braun getting down the court, after a deflection and steal by Irvine, to block a dunk attempt by Irvine senior Eyassu Worku.

"All ball", Braun said, "not even a finger." UC-Irvine coach Turner loudly disagreed, and got a technical when he came too far out on the floor. To make matters worse, Worku got another technical when he kicked the ball after the play. Self had Braun shoot the technical free throws, even though that job usually falls to Dotson. "It just felt right. He got us going. He was all over floor," Self said.

Coach Turner was regretful. "I lost track of where I was and deserved the technical. What's worse, I think I got Eya (Worku) a bit riled up and that put us behind the eight ball." After the free throws, KU held a 25-20 lead and the game was over.

Welp had 21 for Irvine and senior center Brad Greene chipped in 11. The Anteaters finished the year at 24-12.

Garrett had 9 assists, 8 boards and 4 steals to lead KU in all three categories. He added 8 points. Azubuike scored 13 points and had 7 rebounds. Kansas (32-3) started the second half on a 10-2 run, which included two Garrett layups, and cruised the rest of the way.

KU's win sets up a second round match-up on Sunday (3:50 pm/TNT) with the #8 seeded LSU Tigers, who won a buzzer beater over #9 Colorado, 69-67.

So to the complete inapplicability of the analogy. Folks do this stuff all the time. So, why criticize someone for murder or other lawlessness if I go 79 in a 75? Pure foolishness. It's the argument of the irrational moral equalizers.

Bill Self made the widely public proclamation on the his behalf, on behalf of our program, on behalf of our school -- for the entire nation to hear -- that was a lie. It's easy to say he's dishonest.

The fact that it was so public and made on behalf of our program increases its import to me. And leads to my viewpoint.

On the integrity part, I think that's much different. I get what many of you have said relating it to other coaches, programs, and the sport. My view is/was based some unrealistic expectations perhaps. I acknowledge that.

But I do expect honesty -- or at least not lying. Don't lie. Just don't say anything. Don't lie. It's a horrible message to all involved and certainly to the players that he's trying to be a role model for.

Instead, perhaps this statement related to improper benefits: "I have always tried to operate our program the right way. As a program, we do not offer any improper benefits. None of my coaches, nor I, have offered or provided improper benefits. I can assure you of that. The Adidas involvement and the role of shoe companies in general, create a much different dynamic for all schools involved. Obviously we're dealing with those issues related to our involvement. And I'm sure college basketball as a whole will address many of these issues. We want to operate our program in the right way."

I'm still believing that "our program" and "coaches" don't do it. But we know the shoecos do. This simple adjustment avoids blatantly lying.

But Bill Self chose to go a much different route. And that ain't going 79 in a 75.

I'm all for what brings out the best in a player. Some players are better off the bench, but not too many. Some seem to collapse when faced with coming off the bench (I'm recalling Vick was that way). I like using the bench to start the game as a change of scenery deal to alter the dynamic a bit if a player is struggling.

@BShark Why is starting Braun concerning -- for this season, next, because of fit? Braun (in my opinion) is just an all-around better player than Moss. But I know that doesn't mean Braun should necessarily start over Moss. As @Woodrow said, it's Moss or Braun. And I kinda think that because Braun plays better defense, Self prefers him generally -- Moss seems to catch a lot of Self-flak.

And he's a freshman. Not highly rated. Working to fit in. Not the first, second, or third option. Or even fourth. Probably hesitant to draw the coach's ire if he oversteps, even if the coach encourages. Confidence and time will overcome role preservation at some point. Last night, that environment, understandable that a freshman might be a touch hesitant. We do need him to be assertive with his shot because he offers what we really need. Not forcing as @kjayhawks mentioned, but just seizing opportunity when presented. Excellent role player to have.

I'd keep going with Moss off the bench. He's not near as good as Newman. Newman could get to the rack. But Moss is the near perfect shooter off the bench. A guy that can change the look of the game when he's even semi-on. I don't see Braun like that. Moss is a shooter. Braun is a more complete player. It seems that Braun starting is the better path, and I'd really like to see Braun shoot more -- the guy is shooting almost 50% from three in conference play (he lit it up in three games but has barely shot in the other Big 12 games). The last two games he hasn't shot one three pointer. Makes zero sense for a team that struggles to score.

Can you imagine this team with reliable and consistent three point shooting?

@benshawks08 said in WSU grudge:

@Kcmatt7 @nuleafjhawk But what about the policies? That's what really matters, right? Honestly, this is where @HighEliteMajor is consistent. He stated he'd likely get over the dishonesty or start to if Self were winning titles. Ends justify the means as long as you have the right ends, I guess.

Actually, when I said, "Winning national championships is the only thing, on the court, that will change that for me at this point", that was referring to me be less enamored with him from a performance perspective. Not that if we won I'd forgive the dishonesty. Not at all.

I know that everyone else's perspective is more practical when it comes to the college game and the cesspool. As anyone who has read what I've posted knows, I'm for the NCAA tightening rules, being very strict, not trying to be other concepts. I support players making money outside of the NCAA, but when the commit to the NCAA, then play by those rules. I think it is the best business model going forward.

Really, with Self, it just boils down to the fact that he's no longer on a pedestal to me (character wise). He used to be. That's all. And the truth is, as the other posts indicate, NONE of these guys should be on a pedestal character wise. I just saw Self as being different.

I don't believe in "the ends justify the means" as an operating concept. It's actually a horrible way to approach life. But everything isn't black and white, particularly not CBB.

When I coached young men and women, I operated on strict code of honesty and integrity. I followed rules when others cheated. I tried my best to be a an excellent role model. There were times when I failed. But never once in being honest or acting with integrity.

Those were kids. Obviously a much different deal.

The idea that honesty and integrity are mocked by many is sickening.

But given the responses, I guess we're not putting Self up on a pedestal then, which is a bit of a change. He lies and cheats like the rest of them.

@nuleafjhawk Understood. I think that has been a perception/belief of many. Maybe it's in comparison to others -- your "pond scum" reference. That's not the bar I'm referring to. And my opinion can change on this perhaps with time. But when I read the quote I cited, there is just no reconciling that with reality. The public statement was a big one. A really big one, for the entire nation to hear.

For folks to defend his honesty, they would have to state that his public quote was truthful. I have not heard anyone suggest that his statement was truthful. I'm not going to slobber over, or admire, a public liar -- one that does so as the head coach of my alma mater.

I was always a big defender of Bill Self's integrity. I mentioned that when the FBI stuff came out that they were targeting the "pristine" coach and prosecutors love knocking guys like that down. Maybe I'm too emotional on this. But I feel as if I was deceived.

I truly did not believe that our program engaged in this stuff. I believed that Bill Self was above that. I believed that he did it the right way. I believed in Bill Self's integrity. Then I learned the truth. I was admittedly naïve. Embarrassingly so. I mentioned that at the time. I then very much wanted Self to admit there were mistakes, be contrite, and actively work to change what was apparent. He took the opposite approach in his comments and issued a dishonest and deceptive public statement. And we got hit with a severe NOA. It's his program.

So, if Bill Self didn't know .. just covered his eyes and ears and hummed the star spangled banner while all this was going on .. TJ Gassnola texts and all .. that he really didn't know that Adidas was supplying cash .. you know .. when everyone else does .. and he knows everyone else does it .. doesn't that define lack of institutional control? It would seem to appear.

@nuleafjhawk said in WSU grudge:

@HighEliteMajor So - I gather you're not the president of the Bill Self Fan Club?

Nope, not one bit. That ship sailed in October/2018 when he blatantly lied in a public statement. Bill Self is dishonest. He's dragged our program into this NCAA mess. His program. The buck stops with him. Oddly, many just give him a free pass. Some give him a free pass because they say "everyone did it but we just got caught" or that we were unfairly targeted. Obviously, if that's the defense (as silly as it is), it circles back to the dishonesty point. See the quote below.

"When recruiting prospective student athletes, my staff and I have not and do not offer improper inducements to them or their families to influence their college decisions nor are we aware of any third-party involvement to do so."

While I think he's the best coach our program has ever had, we have one national championship to show for it since he arrived in 2003. We've won one FF game since beating Memphis in 2008. Since winning that lone additional FF game in '12, we've been to one just one FF. Always with a top 5 roster. Until that changes, and with each passing year, I'm less enamored. Winning national championships is the only thing, on the court, that will change that for me at this point.

But on the honesty and integrity part, Self's done as far as I'm concerned.

So we, KU ... you know, history, blue blood, top program ... worries about recruiting competition from WSU?

Like we worry about playing MU and recruiting competition in KC or St. Louis, or the state of Missouri? Much more fertile recruiting territory?

See how that argument is irrelevant given Self's contradictory actions with MU?

There is no rational argument to suggest that this would not benefit KU. None. It's complete disinformation by Bill Self. He's famous for that. I mean, why would we play MU? Remember all of his disinformation? Well, now, all of a sudden, it IS in our best interests.

We just played UMKC at the Sprint Center. New Mexico St? Nebraska? Davidson? I also understand we need to play some easy games too, so I'll leave off all the non-descript puds we play. But to suggest this game doesn't benefit KU is absolute baloney. I've heard that we schedule non-con to help with recruiting. Sure. Look, playing UMKC, UNM, or Neb. doesn't help recruiting. It doesn't. Davison from NC, maybe a little -- maybe. But traveling to destinations so they can see us is what really helps. But whatever. That is a tired, ragged, useless card to play.

Self got his tail kicked in embarrassing fashion by WSU in 2015. A complete an utter embarrassment. And that's the last taste left in our mouths. WSU kicking our tails. Dominating us.

As a KU fan, I want to play WSU. I want to correct that wrong. I want to kick their a**. Just like with MU. But Self makes it appear we are chicken. Clucking chickens. When he's the chicken.

It would highly energize our fan base. That alone is a benefit. But maybe Self is scared of losing. That such a loss would create negativity. That's the "chicken" theory.

For those that want to defame the WSU program, tell me this -- Name a Big 12 program, say, since we won the NC in '08, that has been consistently better than WSU? There may be some debate. But the debate pretty much exposes Self's lie/disinformation.

Look, I know there are some that knee-jerk and buy whatever Self sells, or simply feel it best to mock other programs or their coach. That's all fine. But ... shhhhhh .. WSU has as many Final Fours over the last 7 seasons.

Clucking chickens, walking down the road, flapping their wings. At least it appears that way.

Self again won’t foul when up three on a final possession. It’s how he won his sole NC. It’s how we lost to Michigan in 2013. From kusports.com. -

Asked if he considered fouling in the final seconds instead of giving Tech the option of hoisting a game-tying 3-pointer, Self said he did not want to ask his players to defend for nine seconds and then foul in the final five. “I don’t think we’re mature enough to do that,” he said. “And that’s not what we practice.”

Not mature enough? I’ve seen high school teams execute it flawlessly. Just complete nonsense.

But to at least permit the OPTION, it might be wise to at least PRACTICE it. Coaching malpractice NOT to practice it and have it as an option.

A coach has to decide in the situation. We might disagree. But at least practice it.

We benched him. A top 5 player. Without living up to Self’s words about the value of playing time and experience for young players (Made after Diallo was here). I saw a comment in another thread about our ‘16 team being one of our biggest misses.

Imagine if Self just started and played Diallo 30 minutes beginning January 1? Let him learn, make mistakes, and grow as a player. Lucas was incredibly limited. And as predicted, Lucas was exposed and cost us (vs eventual champ Nova).

That decision was a fateful one.

Well we’ll see. Self would have to think that our offense operating at a disadvantage — Doke and Dave together — is wise midgame. It seems easier to rationalize that by starting your alleged best players. Best alternative is Doke and Dave’s minutes adding up to exactly 40.

@Marco It's not that there aren't lucky bounces and favorable matchup that influence things, that's true in every sport. Over an extended period time, much of that is mitigated. It's that somehow, some way, excellent programs win the NC. Two-thirds of the last 30 years of champions by just six teams. If we're Syracuse, my view is different. As a blue blood, talking in the same breath as UK 3, UNC 4, Duke 5 (and non-blue blood UConn 4) it's really not about lucky bounces or favorable matchups -- over that extended period of time. It's about cashing in at a reasonable rate, over time. No getting around it. We haven't done it.

@Marco '18, '17, '16? Do we think this team is better than of those? I'm kind of leaning that all three were better, assessing things right now. The Q for me is how Lucas was the drag on the '17 and '16 teams.

... leg issues can create back problems compensating. Not a shocker. That's likely what led to Embiid's back issues.

@FarmerJayhawk @Hawk8086 Garrett has made good strides. You can see defenses' lack of respect many times, a few games it's been really blatant. But Garrett as an offensive threat is better than last season. I think Garrett's value increases at a greater rate than the actual increase in his shooting percentages if that makes sense ... meaning that as he gets better shooting, the entire package becomes even more meaningful. The drag of his shooting created a somewhat impractical negative to have on the court in certain games. That's changed. Great to see.

Good point to bring up. Garrett has 9 assists and 8 rebounds. My guess is that caught Self's eye most of all. Ideally you'd want the guy to be able to hit that shot so the folks won't back off -- but better yet, to cause the defenders to suck in so he could kick out or drop it low to Doke easier.

@jayballer73 So I take it you don't agree with my opinion, my numbers, and the analysis of the last 30 years? I think that's what you're trying to say.

Actually, with Kobie, there's even a video called "never satisfied." It was something he was known for. Constant pursuit of perfection. I found this quote on Kobie without much difficulty from a Forbes article, "Throughout Kobe Bryant’s 20-year career in the NBA, he was known for his exhaustive work ethic and never being satisfied with his accomplishments despite achieving everything possible as a professional basketball player."

The highest of achievers are never satisfied. That's why folks that have started some of the largest companies don't just quit and retire on the millions. It's why some folks with talent don't make it. It's why some achieve greatness and some don't. But I sense that this doesn't resonate with you.

@jayballer73 Deep breath ... one, two, three ... release.

Again, one can be happy and thankful, but not satisfied.

It's how folks achieve greatness in whatever they do. Kobe passed away. Do you think that guy was ever really satisfied with what he did? Do you think Self ever feels satisfied?

You, of course, completely ignore the point regarding the pursuit of ultimate success. Maybe wired differently. That's fine.

But the tourney is not one major crapshoot. A complete myth. In the last 30 years, UK, KU, Duke, and UNC have won 11 NCs. Over one-third of the titles. UConn won four times. A team (Florida) went back to back. And Nova won two of three. Of course, there's a lot of risk. Folks like to say crapshoot. But major programs win most every time. Michigan St., UCLA, Virginia, Louisville, Syracuse, Maryland.

In the last 30 years, there a have been no real Cinderella champs like NC State, KU or Nova in the 80s. Arizona won in 1997 (ugh) as a five seed. UConn though was a 7 seed in 2014 so that probably qualifies. So maybe one. The myth that is perpetuated about title winners is derived from the 80s. The last three decades is much different.

We perpetuate the myth because it's Self serving (yes, capital S). The myth helps Roy's legacy here, too.

No doubt, this isn't like the CFB alleged playoff where top teams are placed there. And the more games create greater risk. But when four teams have won 16 of the 30 titles (UConn, Duke, UNC, UK) and you chip in two others (Florida and Nova) that won two each, that's 20 of 30 or an amazing 66.7%, that completely defeats the Self-serving narrative. six teams won 2/3s of the titles. Think about that when you're shooting craps.

We've wildly underachieved .. WILDLY. Self more than Roy. Roy's first 5 seasons were not easy was what Self came into. Roy took a team that went on probation. But let's just treat them equally. We've wildly underachieved from NC standpoint over the last 30 seasons.

Truth.

Now, again, happy and thankful (very thankful), but not satisfied.

As an old friend used to say here, "capisce?"

@jayballer73 It's a mindset. If you don't live your life that way, that's fine. To each their own. There are some though that live their lives differently. Your choice is to mock that alternative mindset. But you respond in predictable fashion. We fashion ourselves in the same breath as UK, Duke, and UNC. Those are our peers. Heck, I've seen folks argue here that we're a better program than those others.

In the last three decades - UK 3 NCs; UNC 4 NCs; Duke 5 NCs. Kansas just one.

One can be happy and thankful but not satisfied.

@mayjay That's a difference. Some are content with certain success. Some aren't. Some define success as just not being bad or average or just better than good, and thus are content with not achieving greatness. We've only been the "champion" once in the last three full decades. We've only achieved "greatness" once in 30+ seasons. That's ridiculous underachievement given our talent and two incredible hall of fame coaches and he level of our program. If our other successes provide contentment in the face of the alternatives for some, fine. But not for me.

@DCHawker Well you obviously make good points. Maybe I'm still in preseason Agbaji mode. Braun has been the shooter I thought Agbaji would be so that's probably the right way to look at it (as you reference). If we have three threats from the arc (Dotson, Braun, and Moss) that is probably enough. I do have higher expectations for Agbaji though by quite a long way.

Just spit ballin' here, but our team defense is excellent. Moss seems pretty good, not great.

We can't win a NC without Agbaji producing offensively, I'd suggest. Our chances are at least way diminished if he's in this ballpark of offensive production. His defense won't go away.

Therefore, we need to explore how to get his offense going. Many times going to the bench, losing a starting job, can inspire. Also, some players do play better off the bench.

There is really no risk in trying it. Seeing if we can grab a spark offensively from him.

Braun, any questions? Self starting Braun over Moss is a great sign. He's a freshman, surely some big ups and downs to come. But getting shooting into the mix, playing the 4/1, is our only chance to be NC contenders.

Losing Dave for a couple of games may be a blessing in disguise.

If Self goes back to starting Dave and moves Braun to the bench ... well, I'm not going to assume that for the moment.

It's not just who finishes. The first 8 minutes can be as important as any time in the game. As is anytime spent overlapping Dave's and Doke's PT thereafter.

The question now becomes whether moving Agbaji to the bench to start the game is the right move. Might be a good to try. A change ... any change ... can create a different dynamic. Without a fully functioning Agbaji, we are likely in real trouble (related to any chance at tourney progress). That would mean Moss starting instead. Not the long term trade out we want, but short term, to create some spark, it's worth a shot.

@mayjay You so sure about that???

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/now-kobe-bryant-says-hed-have-picked-duke-not-unc-if-he-went-to-college/amp/ ↗

I believe the Big 12 rule is you have to make the request by Aug 1 of the following season. See rule 6.4. I think this is it.

https://static.big12sports.com/custompages/pdfs/handbook/conferencehandbook.pdf ↗

@Kcmatt7 Nah, I see building what he did at TT as much different from taking over a national power that had won multiple NC's in the previous, what, 12 or 13 seasons (before Ollie took over) as just a touch different. I know, this is opinion stuff. But I just see a lot in Beard that I like. Everything, actually. Best in game coach I saw last season.

@BShark When you say flame out, I agree on Shaka and Ollie. I don't think the others flamed out. Huggins is a hall of fame guy, Kruger likely will be, Martin not bad, Greggg has had a program that is better than any other Big 12 program (aside from KU) during his tenure, Gonzaga too, and Loyola was Cinderella. Like a George Mason. Shaka and Ollie are the best examples of flame outs I think.

If anyone was betting on a coach not named Self, at KU, only a few are in the conversation I'd think. Beard clearly one.

By the way, I'm done with this topic in the basketball section. Anyone that wants the final word feel free.

@benshawks08 I have clearly said that the out of wedlock births are the most important factor. And yea, if it's blacks we're talking about, it would be black men and women. You have zero credibility when you mock this issue. But the left is big on that -- mocking consideration of issues that threaten their narrative. Look at the idiots in Chicago in response to Rahm Emanuel. It was like a bomb went off. That's not logic. It's irrationality. That's you. You are that.

Folks cry racism all the time. I'm well beyond being that concerned about that diluted word being thrown at me here. That's fine. It's easy to type, it's easy to feel, but it avoids defeating arguments. If @mayjay or you, or anyone else defines my comments as racist, I'm good with that. I am clearly talking about things in racial terms. That's fits the broad brush with most that cry racism. Similarly, when you or other folks discuss white privilege, or male privilege, that would be broad brush racist or sexist. I don't care to really indulge that line of debate.

I was at a Christmas party a year + ago and a black woman was ranting about Trump. I had the temerity to suggest that many of us voted for him, not because we like him or his demeanor, but because we preferred his policies over Clinton. You would have thought I donned a KKK mask and jumped on horse. It was the spewing of irrational accusations and garbage that quite frankly is much akin to what you offer. It doesn't matter to you and leftists. You cry racism and that's the end of the discussion. You have no ability to debate a topic.

I know I hate seeing the murder, mayhem and violence. That's what I hate. People dying. I know that doesn't really occur in mass quantities in the suburbs or much in rural areas, even per capita as previously discussed. I do know that when I look at crime maps they tend to match up quite obviously with racial populations. I do know the violent crime stats. I do know reality. Don't walk the street at 23rd and Prospect in KC. Feel free to walk the street at 103rd and Antioch in OP. That's reality. I believe I've identified some very large reasons why. Of course, folks like you think that crime maps by race are racist, I've heard the arguments.

If you and your family are walking down the street at 43rd and Prospect and a group of black teens are following. Fear for your safety? If you and you're family are at 103rd and Antioch in OP, walking down the street, and a group of white teens are following. Fear for your safety? Ground level. Reality. Undeniable. Of course, the first response is that one would never walk down the street at 43rd and Prospect with their family. Right.

The fact is each race, in large part, has its culture. It's something that binds people. To ignore that it is to ignore facts. There is a perverted culture within the inner city black communities that is broken, it's destructive, and at its core, causes mass death and destruction. The results are undeniable.

I pointed out another broken culture that was/is within the Catholic church and the assaults on young boys. Very similar discussion.

Without that diluted word "racism" holding folks back from an honest, all points discussion, my argument wins in a knockout. Based on this wide ranging debate, with all the shots taken, there is nothing that even caused swelling. But invoke the word racism and everything else goes out the window with some. It's easier to worry about the word "racism" than challenge your thoughts and take the risk of offending.

@benshawks08 Well, I never said that. I never said one reason. I’ve fully explained my position. On the other hand, you have spent much effort suggesting my position has zero merit. Hell, when we began this a while back you were surprised at the out of wedlock birthrates I quoted, which is the core factor, in my opinion.

Of course, my entire point on all of this is preservation of life. I have tried to highlight that urban areas and the violence is ignored. It’s sickening. Black lives taken in mass numbers and all folks do is blame guns and racism and whatever else is convenient to ignore the truth. Meanwhile, while their protectors and enablers wring their hands, more die. This is a great example of why things don’t change.

It doesn’t matter the logic, or the stats, or the crime maps, or proof. It doesn’t matter what we see with our own eyes and how, for example, behavior by athletes has noticeably shifted in the last 20-25 years and the me first, pound the chest, screaming, gyrating, etc. None of it matters.

None of it matters because folks don’t have the guts to discuss all options.

Done.

I use the word thug purposefully and with intention. The meltdown is always entertaining. The glorification of the thug demands recognition of the thug. Perhaps if it wasn’t glorified some might not associate the conduct with the word.

@BShark How many coaches got to the final game that you would say to be random in the last two decades? Weber had Self’s players. Beyond that?

@dylans No one has said that it made it "ok to hit him." Can you find one person here who said that? The first punch being thrown was stupidity. "Ok" isn't the discussion.

I quite sure that you teach your four year old that if you take certain actions, then certain unfortunate consequences may follow. That doesn't make those consequences "ok." But in life, there are experiences that tell us that consequences, "ok" or not, may follow.

What would be your reaction to the unprovoked thug-like response by Silvio to stand over him? Would you calmly look up at his junk and let the moment pass? If you were the KSU player's teammates, would you stand by and just observe? We've seen folks very complimentary (and correctly so in my opinion) of KU players coming to Silvio's side. That's what the KSU players did in the face of Silvio thug-like response.

The punches thrown were not "ok". But a physical confrontation after Silvio poor behavior is an expected response as would be a little pushing and shoving as part of that.

If I'm in line at the store and a woman and man in front of me are going slow, and I scream, "Come on, would you f-ing hurry up?" And the man reacts and turns and pushes me really hard in the chest, knocking me down, is that "ok." Should he have have done that? Probably not. But is it within the realm of expected responses? Absolutely. My conduct was akin to Silvio's in the context of the situation. A reasonable response might be the man turning, confronting me, and suggesting I shut my mouth. That's seems about what the initial response of the KSU players was. The first punch was much, much different, much like the guy in the line at the store becoming violent and knocking me down (in the example).

There is nothing about stealing the ball and going in for a layup that would cause one to expect Silvio's thug-like response. Nothing. Not even close to reasonable. Steals, layups and swats happen all the time.

However, when someone is standing over someone like a thug while the other is laying on the ground, it is quite expected that a confrontation may occur. Who wouldn't expect that?

There were three events that occurred here that were completely unreasonable and completely out of the realm of reason .. 1) Silvio standing over him like a thug, 2) the first punch thrown, and 3) Silvio picking up the chair.

The first act in that sequence was Silvio. The suspensions and assessment of blame that goes with that seems about perfect.

Beard took TT to within a play or two of a National Championship, not KU, UNC, Duke or UK with all the advantages of a blue blood.

There is no better choice as your coach for the next 15 years than Beard.

@Marco I personally would prefer not having him on the team. Its a two part deal for me — Adidas and the brawl. But I can really see the other side of this and appreciate Self’s (and others’) loyalty to him.

@bskeet Wish that were the case but it’s not. Per Capita numbers are based on “per 100,000” in most of the calculations. For ex, in California, the per 100,000 rate for violent crime in Oakland is 1299 vs San Diego 366. In the Midwest, Kansas City 1724 vs Denver 675. The sad reality is that the highest crime areas in American cities are the mainly black, inner city zones.

One thing to mention to. In rural areas, when gun ownership is wildly pervasive, the incidents of gun related crime is disproportionately low. A different culture.

For example, look at the population of Johnson County, Kansas. Compare to Jackson County, Missouri.

The point I’ve made before, and my outrage is that no one seems to care. Outrage is reserved for the restaurant shooting in the suburbs. In KC, we listened to the fool mayor Sly James continue to blame guns. Never seems to be able to explain why the hundreds of thousands of guns in neighboring Johnson County Kansas seem to magically kill so few citizens.

The fact is a large majority of inner city folks are good people that want it to stop. In Baltimore, they initiated surveillance flights to stop crime. The typical whiners opposed but over 70% of Baltimore resident support such law enforcement efforts.

The enablers, the ones that blame others, are the ones that stand in the way of making this better. The same ones in the Rahm Emanuel article. No focus on personal responsibility.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.govtech.com/public-safety/Over-70-of-Baltimore-Supports-Disputed-Surveillance-Plane.html%3fAMP ↗

@dylans So you do agree that Self has the final say, right? I know Self (or me or you) might not have the same tastes as the athlete. They're obviously playing to that -- that said, I'm sure Snoop's performance was perfect for some.

@bskeet You're right, punks and thugs everywhere. That's a given. Not the sole source of course anywhere. But when you talk drips in a bucket vs. pouring a glass of water in a bucket, that's the difference.

But where we see the pervasive violence and disregard for life is in the inner city. That particular culture of violence is perhaps the most destructive our nation has seen in many, many decades. It equals deaths and maiming -- over and over and over.

And you've hit on the exact issue I've identified in other posts -- family. 73% of the kids born to black mothers are born out of wedlock. Much higher than other races. And that rate is higher in the inner city. Bingo.

Rahm Emanuel was right on point. He said -

“Our kids need that structure… I am asking…that we also don’t shy away from a full discussion about the importance of family and faith helping to develop and nurture character, self respect, a value system and a moral compass that allows kids to know good from bad and right from wrong."

But in Chicago, it was outrage that he could suggest such a thing. Which goes to another one of your points -- "The individual alone has the power to make their own choices about behavior." See, one segment of our society doesn't see it that way. They blame everything but the individual. It's everyone else's fault. They're proud to make excuses. That was the reaction to Emanuel, who had seen this garbage up close as Chicago's two term mayor.

Just look where "respect and accountability" are not valued, and you'll see the epicenter of what I'm talking about. That's not the focus of the enablers.

See this link. You'll get a flavor of both sides.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/rahm-emanuel-under-increasing-fire-for-linking-chicago-violence-and-morals-in-minority-neighborhoods ↗

He said they have 12 of top 50 teams. His rationale was that they will be playing each other in conference and that will = continued quality wins.

By the way, I think he said “may” or “could” get 12. I can’t say that for certain. That was my takeaway before reading the posts. But I didn’t record it.

@kjayhawks Completely agree. “Cultural” issues everywhere. For example, the culture within the Catholic Church that suborned sex abuse. Ignoring it doesn’t work. The issue with the violent inner city culture is that it leads to large numbers being killed and maimed — murder, robbery, and complete disrespect for life. Glorifying the thug is at the heart of it.

And the less important aspect of what we see from athletes on the court and field is just a spread of that cancer.

@kjayhawks You might try living in rural Indiana. Could leave your doors unlocked at night.

@kjayhawks The act of defending yourself, scrapping a bit is not what I’m referring to. Men fight. DeSousa defended himself. I don’t take issue with that.

It’s the standing over an opponent, the poor sportsmanship, the taunting, self promotion, the look at me b.s, — flexing, screaming, pounding the chest, bobbing the head, all that stupid gyrating garbage.

It’s centers in the glorification of the “thug life” mentality — @drgnslayr referred to it in another post. Many want to emulate thugs. And that’s how thugs act.

Articles from 15 or so years ago that seem to predict the future -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2006-01-17-0601170177-story,amp.html ↗

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/1/scary-monsters/ ↗

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/news/la-op-pasadena4dec04-story.html%3f_amp=true ↗

That sure as he** isn’t rural Indiana. But the cultural cancer has spread everywhere. So don’t even think to equate Larry Bird with that. Larry Bird is far from that. But so is Magic Johnson, Dr. J, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, et. al. See a difference?

@dylans I think we can agree though that if Self didn’t want it, it wouldn’t happen. Self is the boss of BB, not Long. With the announcement of Snoop, rolling into the music store, big gold chain, Adidas shirt, all at the height of the scandal discussion, Self owned it.

Self then acted incredulous, as if he had no idea of how the imagery would be perceived.

Self said -
“I do not like the narrative that has been said concerning that with me, but I also understand I can’t control what the media writes or their opinions,” Self said at KU's media day Wednesday (via the The Kansas City Star). “I do know and people that know me know that’s not factually true in any way shape or form.”

Uh, maybe a bit of a liar? Or artfully deceptive?

I don’t like Pat Forde much at all, but his take on this Snoop thing was right on point.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/bill-self-kansas-fall-victim-to-snoop-doggs-acrobatic-dancers-and-money-cannons-175446368.html ↗

@FarmerJayhawk Good info. I checked, Bangerter is a lawyer and went to KU law school.