@wissox 78. The cheering was ten years past. Haven't been back to AFH since 1978. Sad face....
@kjayhawks We had played them at AFH the year before, and won 86-79. That game was January 2, 2004, right before conference started. The game in 2005 was Jan 22 after 4 conf games.
@wissox 1988 and 1989 tourneys were an odd combo for me. KU won in 88, and I was ecstatic because I was an avid fan and had cheered myself hoarse at almost every game.
Mich won in 89, but I was only a little bit interested b/c Larry left us banned and I had never gone to a Mich game the whole time I was there. Crisler arena could not compete with AFH.
@wissox In Ann Arbor, where feeling superior is a full-time academic pursuit (T-shirts say, "HARVARD: Michigan of the East"), we used to say that Detroit was the armpit, and Toledo could be found further down.
@justanotherfan Diving team just needs some Speedos and some towels. We need a hockey team or an equestrian team to really get our equipment payola's worth!
@jayballer54 Excellent early season exposure to the most famous zone in the business.
@JayHawkFanToo LL....
@jaybate-1.0 Similarly, John Oliver is on a mission to prove there is only one person who is moving back and forth really fast to be both of the Olsen twins.
I personally believe heavy airplanes and ships do not really fly or float. It is only our belief in magic that allows them to do these things.
We used to try using the Magic Theorem to justify certain steps in Math proofs, but our teacher wouldn't buy it.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Miles!
@BShark We wanted Malik before he got hornswoggled by his dad into Miss St. As I recall, there was a huge discussion centered around @HighEliteMajor's comments about not trusting Malik's dad saying Malik would not go pro after his sit-out year at KU because he had promised to return to Miss St right before transferring, rendering his pledge not very credible. Others of us were thrilled to get him on the second chance, and had no concerns about him having "one foot out the door."
@JayHawkFanToo Virtually the same age. Actually, the NBA was quaking in his boots when he considered trying to enter the draft when he was 17--and he still looked older than Oden ever did. (Contrast our youngest--Svi at 16 looked, maybe, 17.)
Interesting pattern here. Lose to UK in the tourney, we play them regularly. Lose to Stanford in the tourney, home and away. Lose to Nova in the tourney, home and away.
Anyone expecting Oregon or WSU on our schedule in future years?
@JayHawkFanToo Good Q. Others can handle plea bargaining issues more reliably, but I would think the give and take of negotiation results in prosecutors dropping the more difficult-to-prove charge. Defendants would want to avoid any sentencing "kicker" from a hate crime conviction, federal or otherwise. Specific intent (such as hatred motivating that particular crime) is always harder to prove than general intent (desire to commit the act that is criminal).
@JayHawkFanToo Who said he did? And your post only referred to Oden as a "player," not as a college player. So, your point is....?
@BShark The tears on your smiley do not belong to you youngsters. They rightfully belong to those of us who could be in our 30's twice over....our next times of being carded will be at Medicare-friendly facilities.
@justanotherfan And charging the crime is usually what we hear about even when it does happen. When a guilty plea results, it seems the hate crime part often gets dropped. There do not seem to be lots of convictions reported in the news.
@JayHawkFanToo Funny! I remember thinking Lebron looked like a 30 year old when he entered the League.
@BeddieKU23 Actually, Florida collapsed twice. They also let Duke climb back into the game after being down 14 after just a few minutes into the first half. I stopped watching then, and started again almost an hour later when I saw Florida up by 14 with 12 to go in the 2nd.
It should count as two losses.
@JayHawkFanToo I was trying to be funny because I thought Duke's offensive fouls were generally under their own basket. But it was late, I am old, and it isn't wildly amusing, is it? :thumbsdown:
JayHawkFanToo said:
Duke just got away with an offensive foul under the Florida basket.
I find their fouls very offensive, but? After a reb?
@HawkChamp Defintely looked different. Gave up the outside shots. Duke made all the FTs given them from the foul-fest.
And dumb ball handling. And not making foul shots. And not rebounding or blocking out.
Grrr!
Florida is trying to give this game away by not taking the shot clock down and dumb fouls on passes.
@jayballer54 I don't think it is wrong, just not absolute. The play by play shows that Minnesota in the last 10:50 attempted 4 layups, 6 3-ptrs, and 9 other jumpers. Alabama committed fouls on two shots in the last seconds of the game where the type of shot is not revealed. There was that layup you mentioned, which occurred after the game got close. But they went almost 10 minutes without fouling as Minnesota attempted jumper after jumper.
The layup you mentioned seemed to have ended the Minnesota outside shot brigade that did leave the game closer than it might have been.
I watched a highlight that showed Alabama playing the traditional Triangle-Without-The-Other-Two zone defense. Minnesota had all five guys outside the 3 circle, and was just shooting from out there without anyone on either team moving much.
Can we please change the title of this thread to
Chiefs :arrow_heading_down:
@dylans I never had the chance to see Wilt play in college, so I omitted him. Certainly no slight intended!
@wissox I want UCF to get in. With Wisc, of course!
@HighEliteMajor Thanks. What it showed to me is that to try put some distinctions into the ratings of current team members is almost problematic because they have played so well. We are pretty lucky to have such an athletic and talented team with no 1 to 3s among the schollies so far. Conf play might result in some moves.
The key in the bottom half seems to be finding positives that may bump somebody up. Top half, find negatives that bump them down.
It is the Wayne Seldens and Kelly Oubres that are hard for me because their brilliant play, if consistent, seems like it would have made them 8s at least, able to take over almost any game. But they did not do that nearly enough so to me they were 7s.
Collison senior year was an 8.5 or 9. An interesting discussion could be had on Chenowith, whose reputation was not as good as it should have been. Rep probably would be 5.5 but career stats probably should earn him a 6 to 6.5. We might wish we had another one of those this year.
@wissox Congrats! Talking heads are trying to say Auburn moves to 1, Clemson 2, Miami 3, and Okla 4. I would put Auburn 4, Clemson 1, Wisc 2, and Okla 3. But next week will no doubt make things either clearer or totally effed.
A commenter on that ESPN article provided some information that helps explain the close score:
"What this article doesn't say is the Gophers were up between 9-17 points the entire game, then when it got to 5-on-3, they stayed classy and just shot outside shots rather than penetrate, hit the boards, and foul out ALA's last 3 players."
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400986392 ↗
Maybe those bench guys watch too much baseball where leaving the bench is just another time-wasting ritual.
@BShark But, hopefully Billy becomes the fastest rising player in the lengthy history of the distinguished Mayjay Scale!
@jaybate-1.0 Nice idea, but that is a different scale as you describe it (based on Self's use, etc). The goal here is to be able to talk about the various levels of good vs bad as college bb players.
Other scales could be developed for "glue" players so that we could argue incessantly with Brady haters!
@BShark Sorry, based on performance in games, so Billy P so far is a 1.
@approxinfinity The problem with any scale is that it relects subjective priorities. I downgraded Travis because he didn't seem to take advantage of his potential on offense. But maybe that is just me due to focusing on people turning down open shots ever since Syracuse?
I think the fact that people focus on "barely beating a not very good UK" reflects a thorough misunderstanding of Cal's current team. It is a hugely talented team that has been missing in chemistry and has not played anywhere near its level. But to call that team "bad" is myopic. They are not great, but any team with that talent has the potential to be. I think all those freshmen will show their truer colors by year's end.
So, to everybody involved in this ML discussion, perhaps, as HEM says, there are different meanings of "good" to different people.
I suggest we develop a scale that might make it more clear where we think players fall in the spectrum. And I think we all have to acknowledge that in any given game, a player can perform far beyond, or below, a place on the scale that evaluates his overall level.
So, this is proposed just for fun, as to overall performance, NOT individual game performance. (We can factor in recent games by indicating trending up, or down.) This is to measure performance, NOT potential. Anyone who wants, can add a potential rating for a particular player's ultimate ceiling, but to aid the discussion it would be helpful to indicate how long.
From the absolute worst to the absolute best, the gradations that occur to me, from 1 to 10 with some possible examples, are:
- Abysmal, waste of scholarship. Problem child. Tempted to put usher in instead.
- Poor. Mistakes regularly hurt team.
- Marginal. Cannot expect much of anything but some minutes. Hopefully without fouling. (Young this year)
- Occasional contributor but not enough to supplant other players, adequate but inconsistent bench player. (Jamari senior year, Mitch)
- Nearly average but has some special ability that comes through once in a while. No predicting when. (Greene)
- Average to good player. Flashes of brilliance. Not dominant in any facet. (EJ overall, Releford)
- Very good. Sometimes inconsistent, but you always want them in there. Some limitation. (TT, Vick, Doke)
- Excellent player. Makes the team go. (Mario, Devonte)
- Almost perfect college player. Extraordinary. (Frank)
- Elite, best of the best. Polished and amazing. Mind-bending. (Jabaar, Magic Johnson at Mich State, Larry Bird at Ind St)
Certainly not exhaustive, and highly subjective, but that is the point.
@JayHawkFanToo The "Grammar and Usage Committee" will be contacting you soon to discuss if the universally-used "POd" (pee-OHED) is the proper term, or whether proper English speakers should instead set a good example with the more technically correct "PdO" (peed-OH).
Just funnin' with ya. This type of crap always has POd me ever since the 60s TV show The Mothers-in-Law (Kaye Ballard and Eve Arden, but no one cared then and you will not care now). We had to talk about courts-martial in the Army. Technically correct, but stilted.
@ErichHartmann You new here? Welcome!
@JayHawkFanToo @jayballer54 I was focusing more on the impression recruits might have of him, and whether they should have or not is irrelevant.
The only people who ever tried to bully me were football players, and it was based on weight (all of 10 to 15 lbs). Fortunately, I won them over with my charm and quick wit. Actually, I had friends on the team who helped make it clear that the subject was out of line.
But Mangino was dealing with kids whose friends were not Mangino's friends. They were likely, I think, to make lots of negative comments about him to Mangino's targets, and cracks about what KU might be like. Speculation, perhaps, but we have heard adults do it (how many posts here have mentioned HCBS's weight as setting a bad example?). Hard to imagine kids considering other options might not be exposed to that negativity.
Like it or not, morbidly obese people face an uphill battle to be accepted. Whether due to physical, genetic, or emotional factors is irrelevant to this discussion, which is only whether his weight could have affected his coaching. I can't see how it would not have.
Out. Into the realm of fantasy.
@DoubleDD Yes.
@nuleafjhawk We need to pay more attention to recruits' social media links. Then offer all their friends and girlfriends academic scholarships.
@DoubleDD Men have been doing terrible things to women for years.
Years ago, no one listened to any complaints ("he said, she said"). Last year, one was facing a trial (hung jury) while someone else who bragged about it got elected President. The first was progress, comparatively.
This year, many men are losing their jobs. Much greater progress.
Why did it take a year to make a difference to you?
@jayballer54 I do not have your confidence that Mangino's weight had no effect on his coaching. It is a proven fact, like it or not, that persons who are obese face a significant amount of discrimination socially. I have a hard time believing that testosterone-laden adolescent potential recruits, so focused on their own fitness and development, would all have been unwilling to disregard any negative attitudes toward an overweight coach who was even the subject of at least a few negative media comments by allegedly mature commentators.
And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that health issues were related to the out-of-control stuff (anger? depression?) that led to his firing.
@Crimsonorblue22 "I have Obamacare."
Unfortunately, hundreds of politicians (congressmen and senators and the Prez) who think that that fact is a failure.
jayballer54 said:
cragarhawk said:
Still no news. Will we ever see BP suit up?
Nope. - You probably have seen Billy stepping on the floor for the last time as a KU player. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
If so, that will really make his disparaging comments about his skeptics look disingenuous at best, flat-out fraudulent at worst.
@DoubleDD Look, give it a rest. You are always looking for fights. Would you please notice that I originally said I agree with the Donald about La Var?
@DoubleDD So can you. We can work together on this.