@rockchalkwyo Seems to me that logic is usually inconvenient in such circumstances. Unfortunately, logic weighs against us a bit here I think.
HighEliteMajor
5416 posts
jayballer73 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
approxinfinity said:
jayballer73 said:
What are you talking about?
Giving you a hard time for asking 214 why he uses all caps.
Kind of a grammar security guard, no gun, but also engages in some questionable activity while off duty? We kid because we care ..
still lost - -understand kind of playing but I'm lost what did say that was bad - -I was curious only to why he is always using all caps all the time. - All caps means they are yelling
Nothing you said was bad or out of line. Just a bit of kidding around. Always appreciate your info and thoughts, which really add a lot here.
*Also, I think that's just his style .. all caps. If he did all lower case now, would that be whispering? I would think so.
approxinfinity said:
jayballer73 said:
What are you talking about?
Giving you a hard time for asking 214 why he uses all caps.
Kind of a grammar security guard, no gun, but also engages in some questionable activity while off duty? We kid because we care ..
@Crimsonorblue22 I think what @FarmerJayhawk said makes some sense. But the "state secret" nature of all of this makes me think it is just a student privacy matter.
@truehawk93 Nothing is stopping him from continuing his education. So that's a non-issue. He went to school this past year. It's that playing thing that is problematic when you (or your agent) takes money and breaks the rules. The drama voiced on behalf of SDS is just tiring to me (I don't tire easily). You said "The NCAA should be helping, not discouraging him" -- if there are not rules, i.e., CHEATING, then there is no CBB as we know it. And a lot of kids "WANT" to play CBB and can't because they don't have the natural talent. The unfairness of it is overwhelming.
That all said, I think we all agree that it is not unreasonable for the suspension to just be the one season. But I have the unfortunate opinion that banning him two seasons is not unreasonable either, when you take big sums of money. I won't be offended either way.
Ah, but that FF banner coming down and sitting out the tourney may be the next shoe to drop on the SDS affair. Unfair?
If true, maybe it's good .. because when more info is requested, then the fact finder may need confirmation on an item we asserted, that may be helpful. Asking might indicate it might help; or maybe it's bad, because we may have asserted something that they did not think was verifiable, and asked that it be verified. Meaning to confirm we were full of it.
Or, the cow jumped over the moon.
@JAYHAWKFAN214 Thanks
So does anyone know the date? I don’t seem to be able to find it.
Woodrow said:
Kcmatt7 said:
I do not know who would want to take Dotson in the first. He can’t shoot the NBA 3 yet and he will not finish at the NBA level like he did last season. He’s not a prolific passer.
I’d be shocked.
This is my thinking as well. He isn’t strong enough to finish at the rim in the NBA, can’t make NBA threes, and can’t create his own shot. He’s just not a NBA PG right now. He will be in time, but I don’t see it right now
Ditto all the way around. Just some more seasoning.
@KUSTEVE I think the reason it could be similar is because it sounds as though Grimes falls into the drama queen/self centered category. I want to temper that, though, because things are just rumors. But then when you do appear to think that you can "waltz into the NBA", as you noted, it has the stench of entitlement. That's more what I fear. Not the kid that comes back humbled and focused, but the entitled kid that was done an injustice. That all said, I would welcome him back, as we all should, but with the ball in his court. We all know he needs KU to put him in the best position to be a pro. It is exactly what Selden did, and he made $1.4 million last season. I do wonder how much listening, learning, and absorbing was done this past season, and how much was "just get me through this year"? I don't know.
@dylans @drgnslayr You know, the three ball has killed the conventional fast break. You see it so much in HS too, where the conventional 3 on 2 fast break is morphed into an odd creature where one wing offensive player strays to the corner for the three. Heck, we saw it in 2 on 1 situations last season where Svi would angle out to three. The open three was a better gamble.
I think rule makers really missed the point on what the three point shot was intended to be -- straying to ABA days where it was born. It was never intended to be shot that you built your offense around.
Man, remember the ACC back in '83 when NC State won the title, they had the line arcing inside the top of the key?
And I don't think it was intended to make some core basics of the game quasi-obsolete. We've talked many times about how shots at a certain distance (roughly from just inside the three point line to the 15 or so feet) are the worst gamble. Heck, in high school, that was a the shot that the shooters took.
But I do like how the three point shot has unclogged the game quite a bit. The ABA was quite a league. Wish the NBA would have kept their red/white/blue basketball.
There is a perfect distance. It's figuring out what that is. I do tend to really like the international distance for college. A shot that is reasonable, but not a shot that your entire offense can be reasonably built around (at least that's my suspicion).
But I'm never a big supporter of rule changes, and these constant adjustments. This one seems to be one that is correcting a wrong ... the distance never should have been this short to begin with.
I wonder, can the school release the decision on SDS without SDS's consent? I don't know ... but it would seem on its face to be similar to academic info.
@KUSTEVE I offered a similar thought on Mr. Vick when he was permitted to return. While Grimes does not appear to be a knucklehead in the Vick mold, I think I'd prefer not, as suggested above by @approxinfinity. I really thought Vick would seize the day. But knuckleheadedness is a hard condition to overcome. And with many folks, it's chronic and lasts 'till death (sometimes causing death).
So, who’d like to spank Memphis in the sweet 16 next year?
So he never set foot on KU's campus after leaving, didn't attend class, and he's graduating? I'm sure that would work for our kids.
@wissox Well, I do think that deserved it. Best one in a while.
The Zion thing made me think of how much these guys are actually in school. You know, how Vick is working hard from Memphis, tending to important personal business.
Read this article .. Dedric isn't in class. http://www2.kusports.com/news/2019/may/13/3-point-shot-has-been-emphasis-dedric-lawson-ahead/ ↗
How could he return, or someone similarly situated?
By the way, I vote Dotson. Jalen coming too might sway me. Pondering ...
wissox said:
Zion is withdrawing from the draft and transferring to Kansas.
Got me laughing on that one ...
BeddieKU23 said:
Gorilla72 said:
Evan Daniels reporting on Twitter that Precious committed to Memphis a little after 11 am today.
Finally dodged a nightmare for once
@BeddieKU23 If there is any statement that has been spot on, you seem to be the one that nailed it. Can't believe Self saw this guy as any sort of fit here. I have never understood it.
... and I think Chris Beard is the real deal. Beard, it would seem, would be very attractive to play for. Beard will get a high lottery pick in the draft this season, a kid that wasn't highly ranked when he came to TTU. This is EXACTLY what the Big 12 needed. And EXACTLY what KU needed.
@dylans I suspect you are correct .. it seems that the ruling has been made, and it was negative, just not made public knowledge yet. If it was positive, we'd know.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
D dot doing well in game
Not that I want him to do poorly, but ...
2 rebounds? Wow, that's more rebounds than he got in almost one-third of our games.
BShark said:
Slater still beating the China drum with RJ. :/
Yikes. Me Chinese, me play joke?
@Kcmatt7 They don't own the players' likeness. They are able to use certain aspects of the players' likeness. They also have the ability by their rules to control the players' use of their likeness only while the player desires to be eligible for NCAA competition.
@dylans You know the answer here -- and it is the lack of distinction between being "paid" and being "compensated." No one has to be paid. For a contract to be valid, there has to consideration. That consideration could generally be anything of value or consequence to a party. Mowing grass, painting a house, getting a scholarship/room/board/gear/stipend, agreeing not to sue someone, keeping possession of old documents, etc. I can agree to paint your house in exchange for you fixing my car. That's consideration.
The athletes sign on, whether it be an LOI, grant in aid, participation etc., and agree to adhere to NCAA rules.
@Kcmatt7 You didn't address my question to you. You, I take, understand that the NCAA can use a player's likeness.
Again, I think you know the answer to your question. But I suspect that you are unwilling to accept because you disagree with it. But I don't know. Those are two different issues.
First, and folks ignore this, the NCAA/member schools own the product. it's copyrighted. The Jayhawk is not the player's property.
Second, the player CAN sell a jersey with their name on the back, and they can sign autographs on balls for profit. They CAN do that. But just not with copyrighted material.
Third, of course, they will be ineligible to play college athletics or get a suspension if they do sell a jersey or sell autographs. But that's the only thing in the world that's really jeopardized by their actions in selling a jersey with their names or selling autographs.
Fourth, that is of course because they agree as part of getting a scholarship and/or participating, that as a player, they are required to abide by NCAA rules.
Again, as I've always said, this is about choice.
Don't like it, don't like the rules, then don't play NCAA basketball. Go get your name on a jersey and try to sell it, or just go autograph basketballs, and see if that's worth it.
What that undeniably shows is that without the product, without the NCAA/Colleges, that is worth virtually nothing to the player.
Being a college player creates that value.
@Kcmatt7 First, start with my questions. That will lead you to the correct conclusion.
Second, no, your statement is completely wrong. Just like the incorrect rulings made by judges related to our president, that got overturned, one judge's ruling does not mean that the interpretation of the law is correct. The NCAA settled the case when it came to claimed damages (which amounted to a measly $7500 per player involved, or right in that ballpark). Then, the NCAA decided to just stop the video games altogether and just skip the appeal.
But the teeth of lawsuit involved the use of the likeness of former NCAA athletes, not current. Current ones were brought in, but that didn't have the same legal positioning.
The difference there is obvious. It was Sam Keller, and older Nebraska player and Ed O'Bannon, again a former player, that brought the suit.
The NCAA can absolutely create a contract that provides that the athlete sells his likeness to the NCAA. So no, your relatively simplistic response is incorrect. I can sell my likeness, and so can you.
And everyone should remember that the NCAA does use athletes likenesses all the time. Watch the TV commercial, look at the ads. And they use those likenesses all the time -- look at our videos before the games at AFH, or look at the lead in highlights from seasons and tournaments in the past (such as Chalmers shot, or Manning pumping his fists).
So, back to your statement, if the player can't sell his likeness, how does the NCAA use a players likeness now, and after they are out of the game?
@drgnslayr Isn’t it in-American for a citizen to not be able to enter into a contract to sell his likeness?
Question - If you sign a contract and give up the right to make money off of your likeness, do you still have a right to make money off of your likeness?
@KUSTEVE Easy choice there .. Jalen in a runaway.
BShark said:
KUSTEVE said:
@Woodrow I looked up Precious stats, and he had 23 turnovers in 8 games. He shot 22% from 3. It appears he would definitely be a project.
I want no part of him and I will die on this hill. Projects that only stay one year are pointless.
Completely agree .. strong belief we should pass. But options are few.
@FarmerJayhawk You’re talking about changing rules. I strongly believe that the better way to approach this is to look for ways the athlete can operate effectively within the rules that he agrees to when he becomes a student-athlete.
When you permit transfers as you suggest, it’s free agency each year and such a system would create chaos. Without that very minor penalty, you’d have the grad transfer thing but with every level of player.
The requirement to sit is a core necessity to maintain stability. If one cares about CBB, they would oppose such a reckless rule change.
@BShark Right, it is there to protect the school. To secure the commitment (creating penalty if the player backs out). This is where players have power, and this power is overlooked. RJ has power. Guys who wait have increased leverage because the supply is vastly decreased. Commit to KU. Don’t sign. See how things shake out. If KU gets probation, back out. If another player decides to come that compromises what RJ wants, back out and go somewhere else. The players have power — but the victim narrative is what we hear instead. Just silly.
It doesn’t benefit any player of high ranking to sign a LOI ... don’t understand why they sign. You can get the scholarship without it and if you change your mind before starting classes you can go somewhere else.
@Texas-Hawk-10 Right on with Hakeem. I would argue that Hakeem was the greatest of all time. If I could pick one center in his prime, playing a game right now, it would be him.
Notwithstanding the pain this could cause KU, I really like the idea of shoe companies taking this tact. Players have more choice and can make money. But the choice has always been there.
What is interesting is that steering a kid away from CBB clearly makes the player ineligible. Fraud? No. Just skipping the NCAA altogether, but plainly in the company’s best interests.
What is also interesting is that the shoecos best interests include diversifying their respective holdings.
I wonder if the diversification might have the opportunity to bring more return?
Australia? Last I knew of Australia they were prepping to get overrun by the Japanese empire, but for our involvement in that little conflict.
@Texas-Hawk-10 So, it's your opinion presented as fact. And then, again presented as fact. You know, because basic human physiology tells you.
Then your second paragraph backtracks as the discussion is whether NBA teams play defense as intensely as CBB teams, as opposed to taking plays off that don't negatively impact a team. Two different topics. Your second paragraph identifies things that CBB players surely do as well.
I very much appreciate the education.
Amazing, a 28 year old man in peak condition, can't play hard on defense, because, as a high level athlete, to do so three times a week would be too trying on their bodies, I mean, with no real full speed work in practice, timeouts, bench time, days off, etc.
I mean, geez Wally, it's basic human physiology.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
And on this NBA thread .. I watched the 4th quarter of the Philly/Toronto game. Amazing defense by the Raptors down the stretch.
But the difference is that the effort on defense is given night in, night out in CBB. Not in the NBA. But what I saw last night was a clinic. Shows what they can do max effort. Philly could barely get a partial look at the hoop.
82 games playing 3 to 4 night per week, players have to pace themselves. Teams that play in the NBA Finals are typically over 100 games at that point. The human body can't handle playing at the level they play at in the playoffs every game otherwise players would get injured more frequently due to lack of recovery time.
So, I'm wondering, is this your opinion wherein you are mistakenly appearing to state it as fact, or you actually believing that your opinion is fact?
@justanotherfan That may be the first time I've heard it stated that they give more effort on D in the NBA. Now, playoff time, it's very impressive. Regular season, not so much ...
Anyone ever heard of a few 100s to get into a VIP room? Cheaper than this ...
And on this NBA thread .. I watched the 4th quarter of the Philly/Toronto game. Amazing defense by the Raptors down the stretch.
But the difference is that the effort on defense is given night in, night out in CBB. Not in the NBA. But what I saw last night was a clinic. Shows what they can do max effort. Philly could barely get a partial look at the hoop.
Kcmatt7 said:
This has to be one of the strangest late career moves I've seen in a long time.
Man, what you said. I never suspected him for the NBA.
@BeddieKU23 Right. We’re filling holes now. There seems no reasonable wing options beyond RJ — so PER be da**ed.. Tucker had a shiny 21.8 last season.
Wants to stay close to home (Chicago). If that’s the criteria, two horse race.
Unfortunately, until we know the fallout, this is not done. The specter of sanctions is certainly a recruiting issue. A big draw coming to KU is knowing you’d play in the NCAA tourney and have a great chance at advancing every year. This uncertainty could extend perhaps through the fall signing period.
I still think Self should have approached his press conference much differently after the first trial.
@Jayballer54 When I see some suggestion that we got screwed, we did create our own mess.
@BeddieKU23 Can we take a team vote before we ink him to an LOI?
Woodrow said:
Well after today I’d say no.
Now that was good ...
No need to stew over this one. Would have been a nearly perfect hole filler as a shooter. But got a little flavor of him when he was here .. came across as overly self-enamored. RJ is a better long term add. But we're not at the top of too many lists it appears.
Chris Beard .. more than the flavor of the month.
I would have a hard time with a dude on our roster named Precious. If any kid needed a nickname, or a new name, he’s the one. Quite clear that a man didn’t participate in the naming decision.
Well except that with the NCAA KU has an affirmative duty to cooperate. So no, this would not help KU. Of course, what you say is important .. I personally prefer the truth.