🏀 KuBuckets Archive

Again, I wonder, why Wade isn't charged? If Wade isn't speaking for the university, he should be charged just like the defendants. If he is speaking for the university, then the university is not a victim as the defendants have argued.

Assuming the former, he is as culpable a co-conspirator as one could imagine.

@DanR I would really disagree. The "wanting it more" thing is really related effort and desire. Showing that in your play. It's what Roy used to refer to as "want to." It's evident with teams in dugouts, on the sidelines, and on the bench. Different teams have different character. This team is what @kjayhawks just mentioned when referencing a sports talk guy -- they looked like dead men walking. They really do sometimes. It's a state of mind. It's why coach Self tries to instill effort first and foremost. That guides the ship.

But I know what you're saying, I think. That our guys, in their minds, may really want it too. But it's the objective display that is really telling.

Let's just hope we don't embarrassingly tear down the goal posts next fall when we beat KSU in football. Kind of the same thing.

@BShark This was a national championship season .. bad luck with Doke and the NCAA stuff with DeSousa stole that. The latter, much of our own doing of course.

@BShark I'm serious here .. if we had Doke and DeSousa from the start, I think there is a chance that we are undefeated. Certainly, 2-3 losses at most. The rest of the Big 12 could not match up -- the only loss I think would have been reasonable here no matter what would be the ASU game. That pre-Christmas road game nearly always sucks. And maybe we lose at TT. That is it.

The ASU game was our first loss anyway.

@Kcmatt7 So you're saying Salvy is below average without his defense?

@jayballer73 I’m drinkin’ what you’re havin’. Why not?

colohawks said:

@FarmerJayhawk I'd be OK with TT winning B12 as long as we win the big prize in April.

I would bet that your sentiments are shared by quite a few.

Defense a large part of his value, but he's not average without it. Salvy got a pretty stout bat. Play him 150-55 games, he easily hits 30 homers. Weird stat quirk .. he's played 129 games, hit 27 homers, and had 80 RBIs in each of the last two seasons. Seems like a great candidate to move to first base with DH time for some rest. We have a couple stud catchers in the system. I'd move him to first next season, and give him a major dollar extension. He's the clear face of our franchise and a great guy.

truehawk93 said:

Hope BU beats ksu tonight in the barnyard.
Hope ISU beats TT in Ames.

I would bet that your sentiments are shared by quite a few.

@BShark That was an epic quote by Boynton. And this could be an epic game along Grimes’ journey. Seeing the effort continue is huge. Maybe over the “psyche” thing Self has mentioned.

When folk start suing each other, there is this pesky thing called discovery -- that means all the info comes out. I'm guessing that KU doesn't want that, Adidas doesn't want that, Silvio doesn't want that, and the Guardian doesn't want that.

@mayjay In this process, the investigation report is really the key here. No way KT denies he's on the tape. It's a matter of whether he fashions a reasonable BS explanation. I don't even think they need the actual tape .. the investigator can include it in the report. Seems like it's a "weight of the evidence" issue for the fact finder ... how much value is attached based on reliability, unreliability. But again, I'm sure KT would be interviewed and I'm sure he wouldn't lie if he's on the tape.

Here's a link on the infraction hearing process.

http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/enforcement-process-hearings ↗

@mayjay It makes sense if you are continuing the charade as a victim, as KU is doing. Of course, it serves KU. Why not seek the reimbursement?

As you know, though, in a hearing regarding restitution, the normal rules of evidence don't apply. Further, the judge has heard the proffered evidence (so he could rule on the objections). But that goes to what might be ordered.

Regarding the booster issue, the NCAA won't be hard pressed at all ... zero ... related to the testimony. The judge would not admit certain evidence because of objections. Those objections can be related to relevance, hearsay, etc. The NCAA is not bound by those rules.

For example, the Judge would not permit the KT recording as evidence. The discussion of Zion Williamson. He denied it because the call did not happen to be during the time frame referenced in the indictment.

If booster issue comes down to the NCAA rule it is clear that KU used and relied upon the Adidas folks in recruiting on their behalf. No one is denying that we used Adidas folks to help recruit.

@FarmerJayhawk I know that — the routineness has nothing to do with what I was talking about. My point was the farcical nature of the entire situation.

@truehawk93 I don’t think you and @Kcmatt7 are saying the same thing. He has them as a 4 seed. The breakdown above shows regions, so Kansas is the 4 seed in the KC region.

This farce continues. So, the victim (wink, wink) who knew what was going on, was deeply involved with the defendants, solicited the defendants' assistance in recruiting, is now asking for monies to be reimbursed.

The "victim" is the monolithic university. Its employees apparently don't act on the university's behalf. But that's this entire, ridiculous scenario.

We all should note that Louisville sued Pitino related to the damage he caused related to scandals.

I wish I didn't think like this, but I see this all just getting uglier.

Any involved coaches (at whatever school) are MORE guilty than the Adidas defendants. The coaches have a fiduciary duty to the University. The Adidas defendant were acting to help their company. Further, the players and parents are guilty, as well, as they conspired.

Why isn't DeSousa's guardian or Preston's mom being charged? If we're buying the "defrauded the university" thing, aren't they both plainly guilty? Further, if they kept the info from the player, that seems even worse.

On a positive note, Self was never (as far as we know) subpoenaed for grand jury testimony like Miller and Wade.

It does not seem a stretch to me that an attorney for the defendants could file a civil suit against the University and the involved coaches. Seems like some creative claims could be fashioned there.

Ugh.

@Crimsonorblue22 I only heard about 15 minutes, and all I heard him mention was that Agbagi had an off night, that Agbagi was due a few of those, and that Garrett stepped in. It was part of the discussion on Garrett. But he never mentioned any injury.

Bill Self said on HawkTalk tonight that Grimes showed more activity and energy last night. So he saw what @Fightsongwriter saw.

He also gave a clue as to what many of us suspected. He said that when things don’t go well for Grimes it impacts his “psyche.” And that decreases his energy. The use of the word “psyche” is incredibly telling and linking it to his energy explains a lot of what we’ve seen.

I am glad you started this thread. I noticed it too. Seemed more energized. Maybe the trend line is turning the right way. It's been a bit stagnant.

approxinfinity said:

@HighEliteMajor If we had Doke / De Sousa, he doesn't see the floor nearly as much.

If we had Doke and DeSousa, one wonders if Mitch would have even played.

If we had Doke and DeSousa from the start of the season, we'd be undefeated.

So, when many here said that we expected Mitch to make an impact his junior season, that he's the kind of guy that needs time to develop, is this what we meant? Or when many of us also said this season was a good season to redshirt, that he might not see the floor, were we just complete fools? Or foolish to think his ceiling was lower?

Uh, maybe some truth to all of it.

Regardless, this is just great to see.

There will be games and situations where he's overmatched, no doubt. NBA talented guys, even pros just below that line, will be difficult. But they are for most players.

He is a difference maker right now. He is as natural and as skilled a shot blocker as I think I've ever seen (given physical attributes).

@Kcmatt7 Correct. Bennett is a hard no for me. But that's just my opinion. Hard no on Turgeon ( @BShark ) as well.

@Woodrow So, you would not see Beard moving from a school with zero hoops history, from the western plains of Texas, in a football state, to arguably one of the top 4 jobs in the country, a true blue blood, with built in recruiting advantages, FF opportunities even in off years, at a school that lives and breathes CBB? I dare say you might revisit that thought ... or am I loopy?

I cannot tell you much I hope Turgeon never coaches here. It would be a disaster.

Beard is unquestionably my hire if Self were to leave in the near future.

Do recruits want to play for Bennett? Boring basketball. Boring. Look at his recruiting while in the ACC. Not super impressive to me. But he finds a way, though, to win in the ACC without highly ranked players. My issue there is his style .. It is a very HIGH RISK style to win the NCAA tourney. Low margin for error. See the first team #1 seed that lost to #16 seed. I would never hire him here.

http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/258/class/2018 ↗

http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/258/class/2017 ↗

http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/258/class/2016 ↗

http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/258/class/2015 ↗

http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/258/class/2014 ↗

But the point is really that Duke and UNC could have very well won the Big 12 14 years in a row if KU wasn't in the Big 12 (meaning against our same competition). I'm sure UK could not have in the same time frame based on their roster issues, and some down years (one with Cal, and the mess before him).

Regardless, we actually did it.

Make no mistake, three point defense is about scheme. It's a conscious choice by the coach. And it's not easy.

Think of it this way. If a coach wanted to defend the three point line most effectively he would place five defenders in a zone near the three point line, around the three point line. Of course, easy bucket underneath. More practically, a coach can simply switch actively away from the hoop and go into "no help" mode. There are obviously options less stark, like no help mode targeted to specific players.

My point is that our poor three point defense is not largely a function of our players failing (as @JayHawkFanToo would always say), but rather, it's based largely on our scheme.

That isn't really 100% criticism. It happens with most teams. You try to cut off the drive to the hoop and the closer basket.

But in reality, the three point line is as dangerous as the drive or the post up. Many times more dangerous. I just don't think we respect that enough defensively. We saw it against Villanova in the FF. The three point line was an open range. Open shots. Easy looks.

You can't defend everything. But what we defend is certainly a choice. And the choice is made by Self.

Of course, players can fail in their delineated tasks. I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing a large number of clean looks.

@user_RCJH Nice post. You’re channeling some inner @jaybate-1-0 there — wondering if Self purposefully sent them out flat. This is one area I always disagreed with him about. You play to win the game. Zero chance Self purposefully did anything to compromise our chances to win. I have never bought that thought process.

TT is really good. We are not a mentally tough team. Something that might be expected with a group of freshmen.

This loss was completely IN character.

Note - We play zero games on the road in the NCAA tourney. All neutral. And we’ll always have fans. March could still be fun, or we could exit meekly to a 13 seed in round one.

So, theoretically, ISU decides whether the streak continues. Interesting that our games are at the same time on March 9 - KU/Baylor, ISU/TT.

I'm sorry, was there a game tonight?

Maybe he was doin’ his girlfriend in Fred Erwin center? TT says hello.

jayballer73 said:

Sucking K-Straights ass possibly - ya I think so

Tell me what you mean. I'm disturbingly confused.

Texas is a football state. Maybe the top FB state. BB is a second cousin. We are the Mecca of CBB. Wouldn’t have it any other way.

Did I mention, Agbagi is my favorite player? I haven't said it for a few days.

@BeddieKU23 I really want Doke back. He can make money somewhere, though. Can't begrudge that. He's given this his best shot.

@Kcmatt7 TT had an epic second half of his senior season. I will give him that. Without it, no FF.

@BeddieKU23 I recall Gary Bedore also thought Tyshawn Taylor would be an all-American and the best PG in KU history ... so, you know. But it seems his opinion on Doke may be a bit more accurate.

**Note, I can't prove it regarding Bedore. He was on the radio after he did an article on Taylor learning from his mistakes. But it was etched in my memory given my great frustration with the TT.

Hopefully it changes to 18.

It will be proven clear again, the value of CBB, as players continue to flock to play the game.

But everyone should be able to make a living if they are skilled enough.

Of course, we'll continue to hear the whining from those that choose to play CBB.

Heard today on the radio the opinion that players should be able to control their likeness. Guess what? They can. But not if they choose to sign on the dotted line and play CBB. It is the act of playing CBB that gives their likeness value. A little known fact ...

@BeddieKU23 Can't wait to see him by Sophomore and Junior year as well...

@jayballer73 So, let me understand, you don’t like the Acc thing??? I’m a bit unclear on your feelings. Help me .. what’s a “bone nose”? Any way, you’re rolling ...

@Kcmatt7 Excellent post above, and nice follow up from @DCHawker.

This is a puzzling case.

The "improved competition" might be an issue as @benshawks08 mentioned (and as @Texas-Hawk-10 has brought up Houston in particular). I don't buy the Houston thing. the guy played AAU ball. I doubt Agbaji's KC area competition was worse than Houston. Or Ellis/Frankamp's Wichita competition when they played there.

But the competition thing generally may be the key -- as more broadly referenced by @benshawks08. Guys who play in Chicago take a huge step up to D-1 competition. It's a big difference.

Again, if he's the #38 player, then we're more patient.

Maybe, Grimes just isn't that good yet. Overrated to begin with. Looked good at a certain level, but needs more time to push to the next level. Seems reasonable.

That could impact confidence, and create the mess between the ears we've suspected.

Patience is the key with all of that. The best thing for Q might be just getting the season over.

I've suspected he might be homesick, too. Looking for answers is all.

I'm sorry, though. I don't care what it is, you can bust your a** for a rebound. You can block out. You can dive on the floor. If there is such mental fragility that you can't do that, man, there are other lines of work.

We need to win. Q to the bench. Go with the guys that can give you the best chance to win. This is winning time. Development time has concluded.

@Kcmatt7 You said, "OADs have not been good to Self."

Maybe, if we are just looking from the outside, Self has not been good to OADs.

It's long been my position. Self is not the best manager of the OAD player. We've had one really good one that fit our team, seemed to satisfy Bill Self (a big one), was not a drama queen, and was a team player -- Josh Jackson.

The NET rankings seem to be helping the good mid-majors gain some footing. At least when you look at where some are positioned now.

@cragarhawk You said about Grimes, "But I would submit it’s more of an effort and attitude issue right now." Agree completely. All you need to do is watch Agbaji go after a rebound and realize all Grimes has to do is give that effort. I'm sure the coaching staff has pointed this out to him. The lack of effort much of the time makes it curious to me why he holds his position in the starting lineup. I've never seen anything like this from coach Self in what he accepts from a player.

@Fightsongwriter Great list. It seems a no brainer to me for Q to stay here. The only thing that even causes us a second thought is the somewhat arbitrary #8 ranking. If he was #38, it would just be assumed that he'd stay. And I wonder if he'd still be starting if that were the case.

Bosthawk said:

And another point.. it feels to me like some here may take themselves a bit too seriously.
Mr J -bate brought fun to this place more than anything else for me. He was decidedly original in many ways. Which is why I never understood why certain people felt the need to pick apart some of his more elaborate and inventive theorizations. Did it really matter if some of his Jenga- like thought streams may not completely hold up to logical scrutiny? Better to just enjoy, and at his best, he made you see things in a new light... even if the light was refracted.

I tried to post similar thoughts last night but was not as articulate as you —- so I didn’t post it. I kept ending with, “boy, some of you sound like babies.” While that’s how it sounded to me, I think your post better captures my feelings.

I truly think some here went looking for a fight with him and that their intentions there were quite negative.

@jayballer73 My opinion. Most logical result - he comes back. Second most logical - he transfers. His performance in fact demonstrates he is in no position to do anything professionally right now. A guy with allegedly high talent needs to develop. It’s that simple. Too many examples of 3-4 year players that develop sufficiently and succeed professionally. Too many examples of high profile flameouts who prematurely go pro.

Years of appreciating @jaybate-1-0 for what he was, and what he offered, has significantly mitigated any irritation I might have with anything he posted. This site lost a lot of depth when he left. There was no need for some to continue to berate him, as many did.

Seriously, we know what the guy brought to the table. And quite frankly, he deserved more respect here.

It was quite easy to determine who was the smartest guy in the room. It was @jaybate-1-0 I didn't even know what in the heck he was talking about sometimes. But he wasn't talking out of his backside. It was actual, good old fashioned knowledge.

It's just amazing to me how opinions, and outside of the box thinking, triggers such negative reactions. Believe me .. I challenged things he said that I thought were simply ludicrous. Like the "we're always injured" baloney and the Self-worship (those two seemed connected). And if anyone was around in the kusports.com days, I'm not sure there were bigger battles there than I had with @jaybate-1-0 (not in importance, or worthiness, but in words typed).

Folks that challenge thought processes, and offer strong opinions, even if backed up by facts, are lightning rods.

I find it quite interesting that his Shoeco theories, ones I always hated and scoffed at much of the time, seem oddly to be playing out right now with the FBI investigation and federal prosecutions.

@Hawk8086 I would suspect, but I don't know of course -- but the anger and vitriol some showed to him on a large number of his substantive posts might have created a, "is this worth it" moment. It bordered on ridiculous.

Edit: Actually, it was ridiculous.

So I’m wondering why Q wouldn’t transfer if he felt KU wasn’t the place for him? Staying here is the best option I think we all agree. Why would the other options be better the staying in CBB? Simply sitting a year in the life of one’s career seems a minuscule sacrifice.

I sure hope he stays.

@approxinfinity The best way to answer that is with a question — how do we all feel about the team now that Vick is gone?

A classic case of addition by subtraction. Chemistry. Team first. Loss of negative energy.

Vick can be really good, but the value of pulling the rope in the same direction outweighs Vick’s inconsistent positive performances. My outlook has totally changed.

One hint was how bad Vick was off the bench. Not, hey, I’m going to prove myself and make up for my screw up. But more like the classic pouter.

We don’t need Vick. I’ll take losing the Big 12 and a first round exit over accommodating me-first knuckleheads that blow the greatest second chance of a lifetime.

Ok, so at this moment we believe the narrative that his family needed him AND that was the real reason he left? I’m sure there is something that can be articulated there to support that narrative.

But I believe Vick left because of his inability to be a positive member of the team and that the end of the rope was reached.

Look at Self’s post-Vick comments about the positive team dynamic, playing together, etc. That’s no coincidence.

Look at how Self handled his departure last spring and that he required him to sign an agreement to return.

Look at the history with Vick. The benchings, the reasons he was benched (“He has a bad Thursday”, for example), his behavior related issues, etc.

It’s quite obvious.

Remember Tharpe? Leaving due to transfer to be closer to home due to “extenuating circumstances” related to his daughter. Only to sign with the Los Angeles D-League team a few months later.

My topic last season asking whether Newman was a team cancer should have inserted Vick for Newman.

We have all the evidence we need now on Vick.

If Fran makes the comment about him not coming back, and makes no mention of a family situation, he’s relating this to the team dynamic.

Come on. Not born yesterday. Self shields players from direct blame, and this is no different. In house stuff stays in house.

We’re 20-6 now with 5 to play. We are finishing either 24-7, or 25-6. Only loss at TT, but I’m not giving that away. That could be the classic Bill Self rabbit out of the hat. We aren’t losing at OU or OSU.