🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@drgnslayr From the National Letter of Intent home page:

The NLI is a binding agreement between a prospective student-athlete and an NLI member institution:
- A prospective student-athlete agrees to attend the institution full-time for one academic year (two semesters or three quarters).
- The institution agrees to provide athletics financial aid for one academic year (two semesters or three quarters).

I see your point that the NLI is a commitment and the grant is actually fulfilling the commitment.

I don't think Vick can sign an LOI anyway. Late signing period ended May 20th, no?

P.S. Looking at the NLI site, "NLI must be accompanied by an athletics financial aid agreement"

@RockChalkinTexas said:

And poor Fran - he can't slobber on and on and on about Hoiberg's coaching abilities. :no_mouth:

Nor can we. We may not have slobbered much, but we did drool a bit over his offense.

Dude could college coach, no question.

@REHawk said:

By way of borrowing a guard from Larry Brown, to fortify our perimeter lineup, Bill Self is declaring that there is an immediate need going forward.

Don't forget Self borrowed the extra guard because Greene is injured, and Self claims Greene will be ready for the season.

He may be less ready than Self claims, but with an extra five months to heal there is a real difference between the WUG roster and the regular season roster, which should have more depth.

@oldhwkfan It's a "grant in aid".

Usually an incoming freshman will sign a "letter of intent". That binds the player and the school for one year.

You can only sign one letter of intent, period. When a player transfers, he can't sign a letter of intent but he signs a "grant in aid" whereby the school agrees to give him a scholarship.

Self can only talk about players who have signed something - either a letter of intent or a grant in aid.

In both cases, it means the school has granted a scholarship.

Probably our number 1 question right now.

Here's another one: suppose Chukwu is willing to come to KU, and Vick is willing to wait a year to make room. Do we take a Chukwu in the hand and a Vick in the bush?

I know HEM has warned that if Vick doesn't come this year, he may go elsewhere next year - so there would be risk involved.

If you could be sure of getting Chukwu now and Vick next year, would you prefer that? Or do you want Vick now no matter what happens with Chukwu?

P.S. I am not saying Vick is waiting on Chukwu's decision: I have no idea - although the longer he waits to reclassify the more I will wonder.

Since we're speculating about someone leaving the team, let's narrow things down:

• We have 9 scholarship players, not counting the guys coming in
• 2 are incoming seniors who have already redshirted (Jamari, Mickelson)
• 1 is incoming senior Ellis: do we expect him to transfer?
• Lucas has already redshirted, so transferring would cost him a year of playing time. No redshirt under Self has ever transferred afterwards.
• That leaves 2 incoming sophomores (Graham, Svi) and two incoming juniors (Mason, Selden, Greene).
  I can't see any of those 5 transferring - can you?

My conclusion: there is no room for Chukwu if Vick comes now.

@Texas-Hawk-10 said:

This situation does raise some questions about a potential post WUG transfer from someone like Mickelson.

Mickelson has already transferred and redshirted. He cannot redshirt again.

He has only one year of eligibility left and he has to use it this next year. His choices for 2015 are KU and nowhere.

I'm not sure who could leave. The guys who could leave have already left.

@SkinnyKansasDude said:

Can't Vick reclassify and then redshirt and open up a scholarship spot again? We just need him for the WGs and then he can redshirt for the season right?

Redshirts have nothing to do with scholarships.

If you are offered a scholarship, you have it - for that year.

If Vick comes now, he signs his papers and gets his scholarship and we have none left. Whether he redshirts or not, that scholarship is his.

A non-scholarship player can redshirt too of course - but again whether you redshirt or not has nothing to do with your scholarship.

Think about it for a minute - what does a player do if he comes on scholarship and in October suddenly his scholarship is pulled: how is he going to pay for the rest of his school year?

Is Nike the Unidentified Company in the FIFA Bribery Case? ↗

Meanwhile Visa, Adidas, Coke and other sponsors are calling for Fifa to clean up its act...

This reminds me of the scene in Casablanca when the Prefect of Police explains why he is shutting down Ricks's Cafe:

'"I'm shocked, shocked to find out gambling is going on here!"

"Your winnings, Sir."

"Oh yes, thank you very much".

@JayHawkFanToo said:

A transfer that would be required to sit one year by the NCAA could play in the WUG as long as he is enrolled in college...any college.

Well if that's true then the WUG could be a recruiting plus! Transfer anywhere else and you sit a year; transfer to KU and you get to be a real part of the team, at least before and during the WUG. Not a big deal maybe, but attractive short term.

@DoubleDD said:

Though I would agree most of the work Hudy does is in the summer, but I have no doubt this girl is working year round. Think about how many athletic personal that have made a name for themselves. Hell even recruits are like yea I would love to work under Hudy's guidance. You don't make a name like just doing summer gigs.

I'm with you 100%. I didn't mean to imply Hudy doesn't work year round, simply that the players can't do their normal summer regimen plus practice.

Again I would agree KU doesn’t need another man[a]ger, but KU recruiting isn’t about WUG. It’s about the future of KU.

No argument there, but again that wasn't my point. The question was: is WUG a plus or a minus? If the best recruit for the future of KU doesn't come because he can't be with the team in Korea, that's a minus for WUG.

Does anyone know what the rules are on that? Suppose we get a transfer ineligible this year: are we sure he would be ineligible for the WUG? Do we know whether he could travel and practice with the team?

I'm late to this thread, but I see a few minuses that I don't think have been mentioned much:

• We all put faith in Hudy to actualize the player's athletic potential: strength, quickness, jump, etc. A lot of that work happens in the summer when the players are not practicing. The WUG will mean more Self, which is good, but it also will mean less Hudy, which is bad, especially for the thin young'uns.
• Self has 11 players and 2 managers (Svi, Cheik) so far. He needs another player and isn't allowed a third manager. To me, this means recruiting is limited to Americans who can play this summer. I really think Self will have a problem offering that last scholarship to a foreign player or a transfer.
• Greene is neither player nor manager. I wonder whether he will make the trip. If not, it's going to be a lonely summer.

Outside of Embiid, who was the last big who was a major contributor his first year?

• Marcus started coming on midway through his sophomore year, Markieff later

• Cole impacted exactly one game his freshman year

• Withey: one game I believe

• TRob: nada

• I suppose Arthur and Wright were significant players right away, but Julian was a passer and Arthur a shooter.

• Oh yeah, Kevin Young!

Start from fall 2007 and compare all freshman bigs: Cliff is probably well above average.

If we accept that Embiid was the exception, not the rule, how can we expect not one but two new guys to solve our problems? Replace them with any two recent freshmen except Embiid, and it's obvious how optimistic that expectation is.

Whether a guy is an OAD or not, his first year is still his first year.

@Hawk8086 I agree, but I'm sure they have some ideas to make a little money: for example, make NBA scouts pay through the nose to get seats.

By the way, what happens if a kid "signs up" and the Dealers fold? College eligibility lost, NBA not yet - unpaid limbo? Development League? Weeding drgnslayr's garden?

@drgnslayr Agree 100%. There is another "streak" little mentioned: every player recruited to Kansas by Bill Self who has stayed the full 4 years has been to a National Championship game.

KU has been mediocre the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament the last two years. That's it.

So Embiid wasn't an OAD?

@ralster Thanks so much for sharing this. Next time, video camera in your headband, OK?

@drgnslayr I had a Dutch colleague who said it was due to genetically modified food, as the Dutch are more open to using it than other countries.

@wrwlumpy said:

Anyone know what this is suppose to mean?

Yes. Charlie Villanueva did this some years ago.

If you sign a letter of intent, you are bound to the school you signed with and you can't just back out if the coach who recruited you leaves.

You can only sign one letter of intent, ever. Players who came to KU after signing letters elsewhere got permission from the other school, then signed scholarship papers.

If you sign scholarship papers only, the school must give you a scholarship if you enroll, but you can always enroll elsewhere if you change your mind.

I don't understand anyone signing a letter of intent unless the school makes it an absolute condition for offering the scholarship.

@drgnslayr said:

What about players just ready to come into the league? Is there a chance they could play if they haven't dribbled a NBA ball yet?

How is that possible? Either they sign a contract or they don't.

• If they do, the collective bargaining agreement rules.

• If they don't, their agent isn't going to let them go to Korea to get injured - plus the team with rights is going to say "I own you".

No chance.

@nuleafjhawk Self won't hate individuals, too Will Rogers. He was on board with hating Missouri, but as an institution.

Piling on here: if Snacks recruited Cliff, he has primary responsibility for dealing with him and his family. So Cliff's eligibility problem happened on his watch.

Add that to the drug incident and coverup, and I wonder what keeps him at KU? The only answer I can think of is Self's loyalty to a former player.

My answer to the original question: choice 1.

I don't know why HEM and other posters seem to look down on those of us who choose #1.

A conference title is not as good as a Final Four, much less a National Championship. OK

Wooden's NCAA streak is much, much more important than his conference title streak. OK.

but Wooden's NCAA streak is out of the question: his conference streak is within reach.

I don't remember every NCAA champion or Final Foursome for the last several years, but I know about UCLA and Gonzaga.

This is Self's only chance to take a record away from Wooden. I don't care if it's for cleanest socks or creamiest jeans, it's significant. Self will never deliberately lessen his chances for that achievement.

Here's an obvious question: which choice would Self make? "Both 1 and 2". He refuses to accept that the road to a national title goes through more losses in the regular season.

Last point: this is irrelevant! Self's aura has dimmed recently, yes, but not only because of an early exit. Self has had teams that peaked in February and disappointed in March, but recently his teams have gotten worse before the NCAAs even started. That is the real issue right now.

Whatever Hudy does with players during the summer is going to be disrupted by the summer tournament and unlimited practice time. Interesting that Hudy publishes a pic of Svi, who is to my knowledge the only returning player who will not participate in the tournament.

@Kip_McSmithers Absolutely. Roy let KU alumni give $400 to graduating seniors and we got hit with minor violations. Didn't hurt too bad because we self-reported.

Maybe Coach Smith thought UNC was going to go down on so much other stuff that this gesture didn't matter...

@nuleafjhawk said:

Everybody (the rest of the basketball watching U.S.) remembers KU getting beat the first weekend. Nobody but the Big 12 followers remember the CC's.

Wow, the media sure talks about it all season, and attention will build until Self passes Wooden or the streak ends.

And, OK, I'm confused about the "We are already guaranteed of not losing on the first weekend every year of our streak, or did you forget?"
I don't understand. We lost the first weekend this year. Help me out please. Thanks!

What I meant was, we haven't lost the first weekend 11 times in a row. During our streak we are 3-1 in Final Four games.

Playing my broken record again, do we underperform in March or do we overperform before then? I think it's both. Our vision of the team's strength is skewed every year by Self's incredible win % at Allen.

@nuleafjhawk said:

Let's win 79 Conference titles in a row

No, just 2 more to tie, 3 more to beat Coach Wooden.

We are already guaranteed of not losing on the first weekend every year of our streak, or did you forget?

I don't get this "NCAA Tournament is the only thing that counts" mentality - I guess being an idiot is a handicap.

The NCAA is such a corrupt, money-grubbing institution that I wouldn't want to play in a tournament bearing its name.

Self will not re-think his recruiting strategy in the next few years. You are talking rebuilding. That endangers the streak.

Come back when Self has beaten Wooden.

A streak in the hand is worth an NC in the bush. If you don't think so, I'll bet the house Self does.

Self is going to go after the best talent he can get, in order to assemble the best team he can for next year.

No way is he going to deliberately choose a 3-4 year guy over a 1-2 year guy so he can strike gold down the road.

Especially not as long as the streak is alive.

I understand this conversation is hypothetical: in theory, how best to get a real chance to win it all the most often? And I agree with @DCHawker that you probably need either mucho experience or mucho talent, not just some of each. And I surmise with @jaybate-1.0 that getting mucho talent seems more likely for Nike schools.

In practice, we shall continue to go in circles, panting, with one foot on the OAD Merry Go Round and the other trying to avoid potholes and poo.

@tundrahok Joel didn't disappoint, injuries notwithstanding.

That exception aside, the question is not whether our OADs disappoint, but whether they disappoint more than other teams' OADs.

Is there a disconnect between Self and OADness? Is there something about his system that requires longer maturing? This has been discussed often. I imagine it is being used against Self in recruiting.

@HighEliteMajor I don't understand why Self's explanation even exists. To me the explanation is simple: WSU hasn't asked KU to schedule them. Marshall said "We haven't called them".

When I was a teenager, there sure were a lot of arrogant girls who wouldn't go out with me because I didn't call them!

I guess I should have done like Marshall and told my classmates how arrogant they were for not going out with me: then they would have had some 'splaining to do...

I wonder whether the team, at some level, shared HEM's misgivings. Did that look like a team on the same page with its coach? Why did Self have to scream "What are you doing?" at the beginning of the last game of the season?

Maybe this team lacked confidence in Self's offense, or felt Self's lack of confidence.

"Identity" = mutual trust.

I know you, you know me: one thing I can tell you is we got to shoot threes - with apologies to John Lennon...

@sfbahawk said:

What bothers me the most about these type of discussions is the lack of people with the courage of their convictions... If you believe that he can no longer cut it then call for him to be fired. We could then talk about people who would want to be the coach of KU.

What bothers me is people not letting others discuss what they want to discuss.

You are jumping to the conclusion that if HEM is correct then Self should be fired, or at least saying that he would jump to that conclusion if he had any courage.

Why jump to conclusions? Why not discuss the issues raised first? Did Socrates lack courage when he asked others to define their terms and argue their points logically?

If you think HEM is a cowardly Monday morning coach and can no longer cut it on this board, then call for him to be banned. We could then talk about people who would want to join this board in his place. See: what's the difference with what you said?

@Crimsonorblue22 said:

@ParisHawk seen his hair? So cool

Oh, is that what's growing out of his head?

Baker sure acts cool after his makes: no big deal...

Man, where dat dude get all dem words? He go to colledge or sumpin?

Colledge has 2 l's, rite?

Sherron was a natural leader (except when "follow me" turned into "watch me" ).

Remember the time an Alcorn State assistant yelled at his player not to help Sherron up? Sherron got mad and said "Don't let'em score!". They didn't for about 15 minutes.

Sherron had to change roles just about every year he was on the team: helper, 6th man, team leader. He reinvented himself while fighting his own body, injured his first two years and heavy his last two.

Sherron was at the heart of Self's two great accomplishments: the title and the streak.

2 seed playing like a 2 seed, B12 champ playing like a B12 champ. Next.

@wissoxfan83 said:

@ParisHawk Do me a favor and don't cheer for Wisconsin tomorrow!

Go Coast Carolina! RCCC!!

I can't believe this. Every single game I care even a tiny bit about, the team I favor loses. 3 times I'm actually for the overdog, and each time the underdog wins by one measly point.

I'm just glad I was at the "theatre" and could only read about it all afterwards.

The itty bitty 12 better get off its collective butt tomorrow!

@drgnslayr Trying to talk you back from the brink:

Let's remember that this OAD recruiting started recently, after the departure of the "class of EJ". Unless I am mistaken, Self has brought in between one and two presumed OADs a year. Embiid wasn't presumed but left; Wayne was but stayed.

If you want to develop, you have to develop teams as well as players. The 2008 team was the 2007 team. The 2012 was to some extent the 2011 team. There has to be some continuity at the group level, not just experienced individuals.

Self has built up teams over periods of time, culminating in 2008 and 2012. Maybe he's doing the same thing for 2016.

At any rate, after 2013 we lost a bunch of upperclassmen, so Self had to start to build from the ground up. Maybe the OADs are tactical choices to keep the Conference streak alive, not a strategy to beat Calipari at his own game.

I do admit that a lot of the money being spent helps getting recruits more than keeping them.

By the way, if I'm a player and @HighEliteMajor brings me a slump buster, I'm outta here!

@RockChalkinTexas said:

His coming back in Omaha is not going to happen.

Probably true.

He's become too much of a distraction.

I don't think that's the reason, if that's what you mean.

If he gets cleared by the end of the week and we win Friday, I say Self will send for him without a second thought because he is an eligible scholarship player. Whether he plays him or not is another matter.

Again, not saying that will happen.

@Gunman Thanks to @Crimsonorblue22 and you for your comments, and to all for the upvotes. "Y'all" are great!

@HighEliteMajor said:

1. Our Expectations: ... I will be relieved if we just beat WSU, to be honest.

Isn't that sort of this season's theme: relief?

• We kept our Conference streak alive: whew!

• Perry isn't out with an injury: ouf!

• Another ugly game pulled out: where's the AlkaSeltzer?

I think we have a few more seasons of "relief seeking" as Self tries to pass Wooden. If that happens, I personally will cut him some slack: he may be the only coach in our lifetimes with a chance at one of Wooden's records.

Since this is the Big 12 thread, I'd like to pass on this word about my niece, who lives in Austin and has been battling leukemia: "Think about her when you see Texas in the tournament. The players have visited her many times and really boosted her mood."

Good thread, thanks.

INTERNAL USE ONLY:
I'm fairly confident we will win our first game. After that, not sure.

FOR KU PLAYERS:
KU is toast! They'll be lucky to make it far enough for WSU to beat them. Ugly, no offense, no identity, bad wheels, no real stars.

(The above was strictly a chip-building exercise. Let's get those guys chips bigger than the Amazon.)

@JayHawkFanToo I get your point, but I think you misunderstood my intention. I was questioning HEM's theory, not substantiating it.

His theory is that Self caused the inflection in strategy and that the 3 point slump was collateral damage. I can imagine Self unwittingly causing a 3 point slump: I just can't imagine him seeing the slump he caused and not doing anything about it.

I would very much like for HEM to surmise Self's reaction to the slump: has he adjusted and how, or if not why not? I can't believe he's actually pleased to see our 3 point percentage stay in the toilet...

@HighEliteMajor Take your theory a step further.

• Self made a three point edict.

• The effects were as we all saw.

• Then what? Did none of the coaches ever put two and two together and see the link between the edict and our offensive woes?

Even Alec Guiness in "Bridge on the River Kwai" finally wondered "What have I done?"

Is Self even more stubborn than a British colonel?

@KUinLA Agreed, all the others should change but not us, right?

@dylans said:

I was wrong when I though Adidas has already unveiled their ugliest uniforms.

Outstanding!

Bad Ball, Ugly Uniforms: Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2015 Kansas Jayhawks!

And what is going on with Oubre? You better start protecting that merchandise, Mon, you makin us luuk too guud.