BShark said:
Point guard is his best position. It also takes some of the sting off of his weak jumper.
Yep! If he can just develop into a reliable open shooter when ball rotation comes back to him that will be good enough next year.
BigBad
965 posts
THIS team is raw aside from Doke and Marcus.
Dotson is NOT comfortable running a team yet. Agbaji is not a playmaker, not a pure shooter, and still a bad decision-maker on slashes. David, Braun, Silvio, Enaruna all have a long way to go.
Moss is the 3 point shooter we need but also the kind of player Self hates on the defensive side. This team NEEDS to have Moss help keep the floor spaced so they just need to find a way to cover his defensive issues when he is out there.
@drgnslayr Isiah played in a different era and for great high school and college coaches that expected toughness. Today these kids are watching their NBA idols sit out the 2nd game of a back to back just to rest.
Kcmatt7 said:
Bingo. I was at the game. I kept asking myself why the hell do they not fake the entry pass one time and skip the ball across to the open shooter/driver?
The only guy on the roster that seems to have a natural basketball feel is Marcus. The rest are just athletes with size for their position. It's becoming an epidemic across the top tier basketball programs.
I don't know if it's a result of the AAU circuit, the 3 pointers and layup only style of today, or something else, but basketball IQ and feel are on the decline badly. It isn't just affecting the top tier player either. You used to always have bench guys in top programs that were not the biggest or fastest but just knew where to be and how to impact the game positively.
Any other news on Dotson's "hip pointer"? I've seen some rumblings online that this looks more like a labrum injury which would spell doom for this team.
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Hard to overcome a flawed roster.
Doke will not play in the NBA unless some team tries to go back to the old 90s style of 2 traditional lane clogging bigs. He is too awkward to be a rim runner on the pick and roll and is not a threat of a pick and pop. On top of that, he has no ability to guard outside of 5'. NBA is a spread out pick and roll and 3 point shooting league now.
HighEliteMajor said:
I'm puzzled why we are quick so quick to dismiss Wilson. Is it likely he'll be ready to play and make a big contributions this season? No.
When has coach Self EVER trusted a freshman early in conference play? You really think he will trust a freshman who hasn't played this year MID conference play? ZERO chance Self plays him over 3 minutes per game. If he doesn't red shirt he is completely wasting a year.
@HighEliteMajor So was I right about moss? That is his role and today he did exactly that!
HighEliteMajor said:
This got me looking .. not picking on Moss. Just observations. Worst rebounds per 40 min played (1.7), second worst steals (.6) and assists (.5) per 40 minutes played (Silvio the worst). The last two are tough stats for a guard. Second worst PER (Enaruna the worst).
Stop looking for an all around player and look at roles. Moss' role is to shoot the 3, that is it! Nobody else on the team can shoot for crap, so we need someone to help space the floor. I'm not saying he is fulfilling the role perfectly yet, but I just see that as a necessity and I believe the coaching staff does too.
G-League is getting closer and closer to a true minor league. It no longer has the stigma it used to to real NBA guys.
In the few screen and rolls he gets at Kansas there is basically no threat of a pick and pop so the read actions are less.
If I'm him I'd declare. Keep working on the jumper and then work hard on screen and roll action in the G-League. It did wonders for Devonte.
61st in 3p% with probably the largest center in college. If you have a layup with a guy like that and cant surround him with shooters then its a roster problem.
KirkIsMyHinrich said:
This one is not on Self. He made the adjustment of going to a 4-1 (maybe he should have done it earlier) and it brought us back into the game. It's not his fault that his players missed a ton of wide-open lay-ups, shot 4-10 from the free-throw line, failed to secure defensive rebounds, and turned the ball over. If we do any of those things we win the game. This one is on the players.
Is the roster his fault? No excuse to not have shooters. Recruit a 3 star that can shoot. Stop being enamored with "athletes". I don't give a crap how "smart" guys like Marcus Garret are. Players like him are not going to win games in March. The object of the game is to put the ball in the basket.
@Crimsonorblue22 No he didn't but Self would have played the guy 5 minutes and complained about his defense. I'm sick of these type of loses. Self will continue to accumulate a lot of regular season wins and no more championships.
No shooters on the team. Teams will pack it in and take their chances. Self is enamored with combo guards who handle and play d but cant shoot. Why this team has Doke, Dave, and DeSousa on the roster is beyond me. Two of them is plenty. Robinson-Earl made the right choice in recruiting. Self is stuck in the past.
rockchalkwyo said:
@BeddieKU23 the last 2 minutes is what separates Dotson from Frank Mason and Devonte
Agree HOWEVER.... Frank had Devonte and Svi around him which spread the floor. This team can not shoot so teams can help more against Dotson.
Three three pointers made in a college game in 2019 is recipe for a loss EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Pop is a cultural Marxist, Becky Hammon it is.
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From coaching youth basketball my best rebounders are ALWAYS smaller guys. They have that fight in them because they know without it they can't compete. It's rare to see a bigger kid have the aggression to rebound. They get rebounds at a young age just by having more reach and they don't learn to fight. When you see size and aggression at the youth level it's special and the kid usually dominates no matter the competetion.
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Agbaji - cant shoot or create his own shot. Tools to be an elite defender though.
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Dotson - is a poor mans Frank Mason who is back and forth from the g-league
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Azubuike - this type of player is dead in the NBA see https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/2/20991249/post-up-dead-nba-brooklyn-nets-joel-embiid ↗
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Enaruna - probably the most NBA upside of anyone on the team. It will all depend on his body development.
BShark said:
BigBad said:
@BShark Because Self and company got lucky with 2 kids that were after thoughts in recruiting. Mason's class was typical Self, Wiggins and Selden neither could or still can shoot. Devonte was another lucky one. Josh Jackson, Grimes, Preston, DeSousa....Its all the same. Look Ive said it before. We will finish top 5 maybe a 1 seed and we will lose to a team that can withstand our D and actually shoot.
Selden shot 39% from three as a JR.
And went 0-6 in his last game against Villanova. At least Devonte came back after his stinker against Oregon.
I understand we are not winning a national title with this group. Just frustrating.
@drgnslayr I''m just frustrated with the idea that this season will end like most.
@BShark Because Self and company got lucky with 2 kids that were after thoughts in recruiting. Mason's class was typical Self, Wiggins and Selden neither could or still can shoot. Devonte was another lucky one. Josh Jackson, Grimes, Preston, DeSousa....Its all the same. Look Ive said it before. We will finish top 5 maybe a 1 seed and we will lose to a team that can withstand our D and actually shoot.
Offense coming around would mean someone has learned to shoot the ball past 15'! 4-11 from 3. I'm tired of the dump it to the big man approach. I get it Doke was dominant here, but I'd bet my life that he wont shoot that good at the line again this year. Call me a debbie downer but Self is stuck in the early 2000s and it isn't ever changing. This win with that style just cemented his old school thinking once again. But hey we got another Maui invitational trophy.
The NBA has for years used college free throw shooting percentage as a barometer for improving 3 point percentage. There are many reasons for this but overall it generally works. After Moss and Dotson there is only one player on our team above a paltry 60% at the line and its David. Agbaji and Garrett will NOT improve their 3s this season. Neither has any touch and it won't get better as the competetion gets harder and the game speeds up.
We will win a ton of games based on our defense and will be ranked top 5 and maybe get another 1 seed. We will then run into a team in the tournament who can shoot the ball and we will have an awful day from beyond 15' and lose. It will be called a choke from those that are not paying attention. This is who we are.
If Marcus and Agbaji are in the lineup together(which I dont think is a winning formula in Selfs system), Self MUST unleash the defensive power of that lineup and press! Maybe I have too much scar tissue of watching Self press too late in NCAA tournament games when the grind it out game isnt working. We need to work on a solid pressing style now before late March comes and these bad shooters continue to struggle.
jayballer73 said:
BigBad said:
I'm kind of getting sick of Self and co still mainly recruiting athletes over skill guys. I'm really getting tired of having a team full of guys that cant shoot. If we didn't have Dedric last year then we would have been HORRIFICALLY short on skill.
sorry not really sure if I following about not shooting - -we shot 55% for the game last night - - -and like 41. 8 - from the 3 - I can't holler about those numbers
That was a Division TWO team with really no height or athleticism to contest jumpers. We were 12/29 which is 41% take away Moss and we are 9/25 from 3 at 36%. NOT GOOD. We have rim runners and protectors in Dave and Doke and we have a fast point guard. Our issue is and will continue to be outside shooting. If GOOD teams can pack on us we will lose. We need one to two of Dotson, Agbaji/Tristan to get hot each game to go with Moss to have a respected spread floor.
It isn't just numbers. It's obvious that guys are not comfortable shooters beyond the arc. Dotson uses way too much jump and lift on his 3s and will never be consistent. Agbaji has a bit of a hitchy jumper.
Self has never and I'm betting will never see value in a guy who truly stretches the floor but is below average on D. He won't recruit a kid like that often and if he does(Frankcamp/Greene) he can't deal with the lack of d and stops playing them.
I'm kind of getting sick of Self and co still mainly recruiting athletes over skill guys. I'm really getting tired of having a team full of guys that cant shoot. If we didn't have Dedric last year then we would have been HORRIFICALLY short on skill.
If Self runs two bigs tonight we will have issues. Also, this Kansas team is not a good shooting team. Outside of Moss, I'm not expecting a make when a 3 goes up. This team's make up is speed and athleticism. I know he never does it but I don't get why Self doesn't press? Agbaji, Dotson, Garett all pressure, with Doke all the way back as a rim protector would speed the game up and get easy layups.
jayballer73 said:
@BShark - - Mercy Dayton taking it to Georgia - -RIGHT OFF the bat. - -dude has 12 points in less then 4 minutes.
NBA scouts have already been looking at Toppin.
It all stems from how he places his shooting hand on the ball. Shaq did some of the same crap. They hold the wall WAY too much at the fingertips. It isn't natural and then puts your arms in strange positions to compensate. People will say have you tried to shoot a nerf ball? Yes I have and I let it rest at the base of the fingers and it spins just like a regular shot. Plenty of large-handed players have touch and they all rest the ball into the base below the fingers.
Look at Embiid's grip here: https://sports.yahoo.com/embiid-76ers-roll-past-raptors-043515416.html ↗
Look at Shaqs fingertip crap: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/456937-hack-a-shaq-revisited-top-20-worst-free-throw-shooters-in-nba-history#slide0 ↗
Porzingis 7'3 and can shoot with touch: 
Kevin Durant has a somewhat outward elbow but he still uses his fingers properly: http://arhiva.dalje.com/en/foto.php?id=19&rbr=19877&idrf=838730 ↗
He still barely tries on defense. Never a Self type player
His dad played for Self at Tulsa so I was never worried about this one.
Guys like this benefit a TON from a summer of d1 weight lifting programs. Not with visible size but strength and speed.
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Duke defended a Doke high pick and roll perfectly. They doubled the ball handler and left Doke alone. They knew they he couldn't take advantage of the space that far away and that their defense could meet him far enough from the basket so he couldn't just dunk it. When this happened with Dotson it was a real effort to pass around/over the two defenders which always gave duke enough time to recover.
This team has to go with the 4 best shooters and Doke period. Aside from Dotson leading like Frank or Devonte, how fast Enaruna can gain Self's trust may be the most important element to this team.
The bread and butter of 2 bigs and selfs high low was predicated in having a 4 that could at least shoot to 15 feet. None of the 3 bigs can do that. The reason doke didn’t get many shots is because there wasn’t room. Nobody respects our 4s range and if Garrett is in with them forget it. This team need to go 4 and 1 and rotate the 3 bigs. I guarantee we evolve that way.
jayballer73 said:
DanR said:
Not trying to pile on Dave, but just thinking back to some wasted possessions in the last 3 minutes... illegal screen, stupid bounce pass to Doke. Clanked followup on Garret's miss. Love the dude, but not the guy I want involved in clutch time compared to pretty much anyone else on the team.
Career High and team leading 13 rebounds
And? If Self goes back to the 2 big lineup this team WILL NOT reach its potential. This isnt 2010. Our bigs will get exposed on d all season.
We have one play maker, Dotson, who didn't make plays or lead. Agbaji is not very good off the ball yet. I think the Lightfoot red-shirt is a mistake. Self's best teams always had a senior who calmed things down simply by being in the right place and doing things correctly.
Remember when there were actually freshmen who were academically ineligible? All the kids today say athletes are bigger stronger and faster, so Im sure they think smarter too. It is obvious that the only thing that's changed is how prevalent cheating is.
@approxinfinity All of those things are there. The one thing I don't see YET is team chemistry. Coach has a lot of options to work out a solid rotation.
Pitt State was so lacking in height that my old school mentality kept wondering why we wouldn't just throw it inside the whole game. I do understand we won't play that way all year and we need to work on our stuff.
@wissox Just like the Olympics.
How soon before all of these teams create a player marketing department? Then it's all a part of the recruiting process. The rich get richer. Top teams will have commercials, appearances with fees all lined up for any signee. "Kansas' tradition" that Coach Self currently sells will now be about 5% of the recruiting approach. Also, the shoe companies will sign these kids BEFORE they sign with a college. Will they be allowed to wear their shoe of choice at college? If not at least we know which kids we can't recruit because of the shoe affiliation.
If I'm a coach of a top team I'd want a raise. This will be like running a large company even more than it currently is.
There is a reason that DeSousa didn't just leave for the NBA. He is raw and was good in the tourney as a no-pressure hustle guy. Expectations are higher now.
The 3-2 zone was the defense of choice in the last 35&older league I played in. Easier to defend the 3 and at that age nobody wants to bang down low or move too much. LOL
HighEliteMajor said:
It's crazy, I was always whining about the quick hook back a few years ago. With Q, I was begging for it.
I felt the exact same way and it always made me wonder if Q was a good practice player. I don't want to believe Self played him to not hurt recruiting which was the opinion of some.
Grimes was a HUGE scouting fail. It was obvious early that he had really bad quickness and used his body in high school to an advantage. Once he was up against guys that could withstand his size he was useless.