Doke might foul out their front if he keeps this up. Be nice if it'd be And 1's though.
Texas Hawk 10
9941 posts
BShark said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Nah, watch it again.
I'm in the arena, he got the ball and shuffled his feet, it was a good call.
BShark said:
Should be 21-19 right now jeeeez
Doke shuffled his feet on that dunk. It was a good call.
Self is pissed at Moss right now.
Don't leave your feet Garrett
Erwin is maybe 70% full at tipoff.
Dotson is warming up like he's going to play today.
Shaka has at least one more year. UT's new arena doesn't open until 2022-23.
drgnslayr said:
It's hard not to think Marcus will be our PG next year unless Self recruits a 5-star PG who is ready to step in. Even then... PG just isn't an easy job to master over one season.
I'm not convinced Devon is gone. From what I'm seeing so far, he isn't ready for the NBA. But he could for sure go play abroad and become a millionaire on signing day.
I think the smart reason for him to go after this year is that there isn't enough upside for him to stay. Meaning... he won't improve enough to stay another year. He also risks injury.
If he doesn't mind playing abroad, I think he should for sure leave after this season. Make money while he is healthy!
Things have to go just right for Devon to make it in the NBA.
Devon Dotson won't get a million dollar signing bonus if he goes overseas, especially straight out of college. You are severely overestimating how much American players get going overseas. Spain is highest paying league outside the NBA and the average player's salary is a little over $100k per year in that league.
Even staying the extra year at KU and ending up on a two-way contract in the G-League, Dotson would make significantly more than he would starting off in Europe. Dotson's current biggest issue with his NBA stock is his shooting. Showing in game improvement in his shooting as a junior would likely bump Dotson into the late first round (guaranteed deal) or early second round (very likely to get a guaranteed deal) so Dotson definitely has enough to gain by coming back next season to make it worth it for him.
DanR said:
I can understand some Garrett/Tyshawn comparisons, but I feel a lot more comfortable with Garrett at this stage than Ty
Not even close. Garrett has always been much better at protecting the basketball than Tyshawn ever was.
Tristan needs to take half a step back on his FT's
BShark said:
Garrett is a really good PG.
I've been saying since last season he should be the primary lead guard and Dotson should be primarily off the ball.
Ochai, you gotta drive it as soon as you catch it there.
Woodrow said:
If Jalen can come back 100% I’d be shocked if he doesn’t play. Tristan shouldn’t play.
Jalen's development is so far behind at this point that he probably be worse than Tristan if he came back.
BeddieKU23 said:
While I agree we have 8 guys. We could always play a walkon
Even with 8, you could avoid this line up. Leave Moss in for either Enaruna or Ochai and it's a better line up tonight.
BeddieKU23 said:
Not.like we have options
There's combinations to avoid this line up.
Don't like this line up at all.
Moss should be useful tonight making those 3's. Seems like he's due for a game where he buries a bunch of those.
Ochai might be the worst passing guard Self has ever had.
Jay Bilas, PG is Garrett's natural position.
After what happened with people questioning Doke's toughness last year before we knew it was the same injury as his freshman year, I'm not going to speculate on Dotson's toughness and severity of his hip injury right now because it may end up being much more severe than a standard hip pointer.
KU also cut Baylor's lead to 5 over the first few minutes of the second half with Dotson on the bench and Garrett running point and Baylor extended back out to double digits after Dotson came back in.
jayballer73 said:
kjayhawks said:
@jayballer73 every home team boos the opposing team, been that way at any sporting event I’ve been to from high school to NFL games. I have zero problem with it. I think there is a line you shouldn’t cross with insults but I enjoyed it so much as a player and coach going into rough environments. It was great shutting them up when we did.
this is a never ending conversation and I'm done. - I guess we were just brought up different ways. - I was brought up to respect , so some have some class, that whole scenario just makes you look some little snot nosed spoiled punk, Thank GOD I know many , many , many more KU fans that don't pull that shit.
You make pointless comments about the so typical like - -well - - well - - well EVERY SCHOOL does it - - -AND ? - that means it makes it ok ? - -means makes it right ? - -umm maybe not, BUT you do what you do - - knock yourself out , have a great time and look pathetic - -you be ok - have yourself a great day. -I'm done with this
If you think KU fans never boo opponents, then you clearly never went to a Kansas-Missouri game.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I was there, it was during the West Virginia game. I was also at that Missouri game too.
It's hard to judge in person because of you're only really hearing what's around you. I can tell you from TV, that WVU game was loud, but not at the levels of the Missouri or UCLA games.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
Allen Fieldhouse crowd breaks record for noise during KU game
Crowd noise hits 130.4 dB during first half, takes record from Kentucky
Share
KMBC Updated: 9:54 AM CST Feb 14, 2017
After students were moved, I was there
That record is kind hollow though because it didn't happen during the course of the game. That happened during a TV timeout with the Guinness people there.
The loudest AFH has been since the reconfiguration was the WVU comeback, but it still wasn't as loud as Missouri in 2012 or the UCLA comeback.
ISU the only B12 team to even hit 70 today. TCU and OSU played a B10 game today lighting up the scoreboard to the tune of a 52-40 TCU win.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@kjayhawks I've been to 2 games this yr, the place was crazy! Before this year I got to go to probably 6-7 games a year. Always loud and fun! You are just full of it and I'm calling you out!
They've rearranged the student section in recent years so AFH definitely isn't as loud as it was because they've put more high dollar donor seats closer to the floor and pushed students further up the bleachers.
HighEliteMajor said:
Well everyone is right about Silvio. Can barely afford to play him.
@Texas-Hawk-10 If you’re putting Dave at the top, from 15 feet out, in the hi/low, he has to be able to put it on the deck and drive. A key element of the hi/low. And no, Dave isn’t hitting 60-65% of his 15 footers. It’s a horrible shot for us to rely on. Horrible.
Maybe you should read my posts in their entirety instead of cherry picking. At no point in this thread have I said that Self's two big offense at this point should be the high-low like you are trying to claim. I specifically, in multiple posts, said the two big offense at this point should be a traditional motion offense with McCormack being the one flaring up to the FT line if the defense plays tight on the perimeter and doesn't allow the guards to turn the corner and drive.
In an ideal version of this version of a motion offense, Dotson and Garrett driving would be the first option, McCormack or Doke coming up to screen would be a way to create mismatches and get slower guys on Dotson and Garrett if defenses switch. If they don't switch, Dotson and Garrett should have the angle to drive the lane.
The second option would be Doke off of those drives. If a defender is fronting Doke, then Doke is one of the best in the business at establishing position and he could easily move his man up the paint to set himself up for some easy baskets.
McCormack from the FT line would be the third option. And yes, he would he hit 60-65% of 15' jumpers if he's open. If defenses guard him one on one, then kick it back to a guard and reset. If the double is coming from Doke's guy, then easy pass to Doke.
Crimsonorblue22 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 gosh, it sure didn’t look like we had the best talent today
KU absolutely has better talent than Baylor. Today was a combination of KU playing with next to no energy and Self having a bad game plan today and not making good adjustments.
BigBad said:
Hard to overcome a flawed roster.
Every roster is flawed. What good coaches need to do is play up the strengths of their roster. Self hasn't done a great job of that this year. Self is trying to straddle the line between two different offensive philosophies and the result is the worst KU offense of the Bill Self era. Self should've committed to one system over the Christmas break and installed whatever system he wanted to try and salvage the offense this year.
HighEliteMajor said:
So if I’m an opposing coach, I would want the ball in Dave’s hands 15 feet from the basket every possession. So there is that. Dave can’t put it on the floor and drive. Dave can’t pass. Dave fumbles the ball around when there is any pressure much of the time. Dave shooting from 15 feet would make any sane opposing coach happy.
The 3/2 is dependent on Silvio somehow becoming the player we expected, OR possibly playing a guard, like Brain, as the “high”? The latter simply spit ballin’.
Silvio sucks at this point, simple as that. I also never said anything about McCormack needing to put the ball on the ground. 15' is about the extent of his range so if opposing coaches are giving him that, I'm telling him to take that shot every time he's left alone there because he's going to hit that shot about 60-65% of the time from there. If opposing defenses never adjust to that, then McCormack ends up with some 20 point games on a good night. If they do adjust, then the lanes open up for the guards to drive and the paint opens up for Doke down low.
As a basketball coach, I was told to not adjust your line up to the other team, especially if you had the superior talent which KU does against just about everyone on their schedule. You stay in your lane and force the other team to adjust to you and KU's current roster isn't suited for a 4 guard offense because of the lack of shooting. It's suited for a traditional offense with 2 traditional bigs and Self needs to fully embrace bully ball to make that run this year.
Bwag said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
I'm at the point with this team that I say screw spreading the floor and trying to make a 4 guard line up work because KU doesn't have the shooters to make that offense work this year.
Commit to a 2 big system, but not the high-low because none of the bigs have the range to make it work. The strength of the guards is driving and the strength of the bigs is traditional back to the basket offense. Use a motion offense to create the looks for McCormack at the FT line because he can hit that shot and if the defense comes up to double him, kick out to a guard to drive if that's where the double team comes from or dump it in to Doke of that's where the double team comes from. If the defense doesn't double, then McCormack can either take that that 15' which is his range or get it back to Dotson or Garrett to reset the offense.
Also, the offense looked a lot better with Garrett running the point today. The one run KU had today was with Garrett running the show when KU got the deficit down to 5 in the second half.
Really, seems we're pretty ineffective 3-2. That's not to say we've got great outside shooting.
Self's ineffective with his version of the 2 big offense which is the high-low. None of the bigs have the range to make the high-low work. The 4 guard system isn't working either because Self doesn't have the shooters to to make defenses respect that. The answer is a more traditional offense that plays off the strengths of the current roster. The motion offense is that offense that plays to the strengths of this roster.
In the motion offense, the perimeter players are looking for gaps in the defense to drive. If the defense stays home, one of the post players shoots up to the FT line and forces the defense make a decision. 15' is about the limit of McCormack's range so this offense would work better with 2 bigs than what Self's trying to do now. Enaruna also has that range so it would make him more valuable as well in that offense.
There would be a sacrifice on defense to doing this, but the gains in offense would be worth that sacrifice.
I'm at the point with this team that I say screw spreading the floor and trying to make a 4 guard line up work because KU doesn't have the shooters to make that offense work this year.
Commit to a 2 big system, but not the high-low because none of the bigs have the range to make it work. The strength of the guards is driving and the strength of the bigs is traditional back to the basket offense. Use a motion offense to create the looks for McCormack at the FT line because he can hit that shot and if the defense comes up to double him, kick out to a guard to drive if that's where the double team comes from or dump it in to Doke of that's where the double team comes from. If the defense doesn't double, then McCormack can either take that that 15' which is his range or get it back to Dotson or Garrett to reset the offense.
Also, the offense looked a lot better with Garrett running the point today. The one run KU had today was with Garrett running the show when KU got the deficit down to 5 in the second half.
Udoka Azubuike is KU's most important player period. 4 shots against Duke, 6 shots today. It really is as simple as stop Doke, stop KU's offense. KU has to figure out how to get Doke involved in games where the defense is doubling him. This was a game KU should've run a two big offense and let Doke feed McCormack off his double teams. That would've sacrificed a little bit defensively, but would've helped the offense out a bunch. Self got outcoached by Scott Drew today.
Definitely gotta say I didn't see a near 30 point road win coming out of KU on the road, even if it was a really bad ISU team.
This is an elite defensive team this year. Marcus Garrett appears to be the one that's stepped up as the leader of this team and they have taken on his mentality.
BShark said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 even if he is undraftable but wants to go pro now to work on his craft more frequently while getting paid I think that is a solid decision.
Unless Dotson landed in a top foreign league, he wouldn't be making enough to justify leaving early.
BShark said:
@jayballer73 you also said he has a lot to lose by leaving which is simply not true. He has nothing to lose and a lot to gain. Staying would honestly be foolish.
Dotson is no longer projected to be drafted in 2020. I don't think he's grown a lot from last season and he would be very well served to return for his junior season at this point to improve his shooting.
approxinfinity said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I dont really think this about being fair. I'm not saying Devon doesn't have a high ceiling. I'm trying to discuss just what is best for the team.
We have championship expectations. What puts us in the best position to win?
If the answer is that Devon can't improve his 3pt shooting mid season or his assist to turnover ratio, then I think the answer is Marcus handling the ball more.
If this team wins a national title, it's not going to be because of their offense, it'll be the defense that carries the team.
Being real here, Mason and Graham had great numbers as seniors, and still couldn't win a title so I'm not overly concerned with Dotson's individual numbers. If you go look at the team that did win the title, their individual numbers weren't mind blowing. Leading scorer at 13.3 ppg, leading rebounder at 6.7 rpg, assist leader had 4.3 apg (and wasn't the lead guard that year). That team won because of their defense.
The 2012 Final Four team is a much closer comparison to this team however and that team wasn't good offensively. Nobody on that team was a good shooter, Tyshawn was at 38% and the rest of the perimeter players shot a lot of 3's were around 33%. That team also struggled big time with FT's with only Withey over 70% among players that averaged more than 1 attempt per game. That team also had a PG who was very mistake prone and many wanted to strangle for most of the season. Kentucky was a great team that year that stopped KU, but there is no Kentucky type team this year so if this team gets hot in late February or March, they'll have as a good a shot as anyone to cut the nets down in Atlanta this season.
jayballer73 said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Vegas says otherwise on KU being a title contender. Going into the weekend, Caesar's Sportsbook had KU as the favorites and most other reputable betting sites have KU as a top 3 favorite.
There's about 10 teams I could make a legitimate argument for in regards to why they'll win the title this year and KU is one of those teams.
Big difference between a contender and Champion - -the way we are playing at the present - will not win a championship. - these free throws or turning the ball over - sooner or later is gonna come back and bite you right square in the ass. - -A championship team can not handle the ball that loosely mostly even unforced turnovers/non pressured and shoot 65 % from the line and expect to win a championship. - -You can't have starting players disappearing during crunch time plain and simple - -screw vegas odds that's are they are is odds - that doesn't help win you o the floor those odds don't make any difference
There's no dominant team this season. KU's defense is good enough to carry them to a title this year.
Vegas says otherwise on KU being a title contender. Going into the weekend, Caesar's Sportsbook had KU as the favorites and most other reputable betting sites have KU as a top 3 favorite.
There's about 10 teams I could make a legitimate argument for in regards to why they'll win the title this year and KU is one of those teams.
@Crimsonorblue22 I think the difference is this year, teams are keyed into to stopping Dotson as he's viewed as the most dangerous player on the floor for KU because of his speed. Last year, Lawson was the focal point most of the season on offense so teams didn't key on Dotson like they're doing this year.
I said all off-season the two big line up would struggle on offense if McCormack and Silvio didn't develop range to open up the two big high-low offense.
The reason that system worked for so many year prior was because Self had a big who could knock down mid range and perimeter shots and stretched the floor.
approxinfinity said:
@dylans Devon is good. Great even, at times (Dayton), when his skillset is the answer to the game at hand (10 made shots inside the arc, 8-10 FT, 5 steals). But he isn't consistently great (Frank POY year, Devonte runner up POY year), and he needs to be a better facilitator in games where we need him to pass.
Frank shot 47% from 3 his senior year, 5.2 to 2.4 TO ratio, Devon is shooting 30% from 3 this year, 4.4 to 2.6 assist to TO ratio. Devonte on the other hand had a 7.2 to 2.8 assist to TO ratio his senior year and shot 40% from 3, shooting 2 more on average than Frank, and we went to the FF. Marcus Garrett, by comparison, has a 4.3 to 1.5 assist to TO ratio, but also is a 30.4% 3pt shooter.
As it stands, I'd rather have the ball in Marcus' hands, unless Devon becomes a better passer or 3pt shooter.
Quite frankly, this isn't a fair comparison you're making. Comparing sophomore Dotson to senior Mason and senior Graham isn't fair to Dotson because those guys had 3 prior season's in Bill Self's system. Dotson has had 1 year entering this season.
A more fair comparison would be Mason and Graham's sophomore season's when they were at a similar development level. Even then, those aren't totally fair comparisons either because Mason and Graham didn't start and play the minutes as a freshman that Dotson did.
kjayhawks said:
@Crimsonorblue22 asinine, we shot 30 free ones to their 22, with them fouling us twice on purpose. I thought it was physical game but a good officiated one.
KU got whistled for 19 fouls to WVU's 18.
kjayhawks said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 very true, this team has potential to be great on that end of the floor. But KSU always sucks on offense and will go on droughts pretty much every game. Last year is hard to til because of much better we were with Doke and Vick with his head outta his rear end.
I don't expect many blowouts this year home or away, maybe 3 or 4 and all at home. I also think we'll be able to count on one hand the number of times KU scores 70+ in Big 12 game this season. This team will struggle to score and play most B12 games in upper 50's and low 60's like today was.
kjayhawks said:
@KirkIsMyHinrich we will struggle @ KSU, probably worse than most years because usually they are solid defensively but we are good offensively. Last season was an L because we sucked on offense, this year we look a little better but will struggle against defensive teams like we did today. Has a second round exit written all over it to me.
The offense is honestly worse than last year. The difference this year is the defense is much better. KU hasn't allowed more than 73 points in regulation in a game this year and only given up 65+ in a game 3 times this year.
That quality of defense can carry a team deep into the tournament, especially in a year without an elite team.
Get ready for a lot of these ugly games in the 50's and 60's today. KU also played essentially 6 men today.
HighEliteMajor said:
@mayjay - Nope, sorry. He said, “If he turns pro first, then KU wouldn’t need to apply for the medical redshirt so it’d be a moot point.”
My example holds. It’s not moot because if he leaves early then a if he sits out this season he loses games. You’re not following and you make the same mistake he did. You ignore the fact that Wilson loses games of the decision is made to sit him out this season (which is the redshirt decision). If we play him he can’t redshirt.
@Texas-Hawk-10 I didn’t change the context of your post.
Tell me, then, if the decision is made to sit him now and not play him (thus the redshirt approach), how is it moot if he loses those games he could have played this season?
The decision has to be made now. Because if you don’t sit him now, you can’t have a redshirt. See .. it’s not moot then or now.
Thanks for proving my point that you take people's comments out of context to create your own narrative. My narrative this entire time has been that if Jalen Wilson left KU early to turn pro, it doesn't matter if he played this year or not because the redshirt issue would never come up for debate. There would be no "what if's" about Jalen in 2023-24 because he would already be gone from KU.
If Jalen plays this year and gets to 2023-24, there will always be "what if's" about sitting Jalen this year.
Been my point the entire time, but keep claiming I'm making some other point when my statements have been the same this entire debate.
FarmerJayhawk said:
Texas Hawk 10 said:
Bucket list places I would like to see games at. I would love to see a game a Cameron because it is a unique place and a great atmosphere. I know it's suffering from some similar issues that AFH does in regards to shifting around the seating for high end donors and students that's dulled it a bit just like AFH.
Assembly Hall at Indiana is a great atmosphere when Indiana is good. Hinkle is up there as well.
The Palestra in Philly is on my list. MSG is on there as well because I'd love to see the Big East tournament there one day.
Not really too many places out west I'd love to see. Only two I can really think of are the Pit at New Mexico and Edmundson Pavilion at Washington.
Cameron’s atmosphere is very odd. It’s a cool place, just odd. First thing I noticed other than it being tiny is the baskets hang from the ceiling like a HS gym, not on stanchions. It’s also odd because in the student sections there aren’t seats, just risers so you have to stand the entire time. !Cameron Indoor ↗
I have a couple of friends that went to school there and I just like that it's essentially a giant HS gym with an old school feel. Most of the other gyms on my personal list are also in the old school arena vibe.
Assembly Hall and the Pit just have really great atmospheres, acoustics inside the arenas, and cool architecture so that's why I have them there.
@mayjay Thank you for your ability to comprehend my initial post.
@HighEliteMajor if Jalen Wilson never plays year 5 whether at KU or elsewhere because he developed enough to turn pro before then, the redshirt issue is moot because it wouldn't be necessary regardless of whether he played at any point this season or not. But again, thank you for creating a narrative that wasn't there by changing the context of a post. Have a nice day.