@Texas-Hawk-10 2 pts. Outscored 7-2. Oh well...
DCHawker
4842 posts
@DCHawker Guess so
Will be interesting to see whether this group can score in the last 2+ minutes...
Give Dotson a rest now. We don't need him playing the last 4 minutes...
Oy-bey, that hurt...
@BShark Have we even gotten off since then???
@BeddieKU23 They have outrebounded us this half and have more steals. We're not helping by being very loose with the ball...
If Dotson could ever learn to dish, he might become a pretty good ballplayer...
Holding them to 21% shooting and a 20-9 rebound edge - should be up by a LOT more than 7 points right now...
Defense good, offense bad...
Ochai is just bad on breaks....
@Texas-Hawk-10 Last year non-conference wins included UNC, Arizona, Michigan State, Oregon, Florida, Dayton, Notre Dame, WSU, USC, Creighton, LSU, Marquette, Tennessee and Villanova. Nothing close to that yet this year, but there are several quality win opportunities over the next week, including BU vs. Arizona now.
@Texas-Hawk-10 What I was principally (mildly) disagreeing with was your comment about the B12 having a "typical" year. My point, which I stand by, is that this is not really a typical year for the B12 given the absence of any - thus far - marquee non-con wins, combined with a paucity of NBA level talent in the conference (at least as measured by the projected drafts).
But, I also think it will be more difficult for the B12 to get as many teams in the tourney as in recent years, in large part because of the absence of quality wins. I recognize the some of the computer metrics rate the B12 highly - but that is more of a function of the absence of really bad teams, not taking any really bad losses, and overall smarter scheduling - not scheduling as many 200-300 ranked cupcakes.
What the selection committee has always most valued is who did you beat. Probably second to that is wins on the road. As of now, KSU, TTU, TCU and ISU have really beaten no one of note. But, they do each have games coming up against quality opponents. Those might be must win kinds of games. Otherwise, unless any of them have a better than .500 record in conference play, they will have double digit losses, fewer than 20 wins, and no quality non-conference wins to fall back on. It may be that their only opportunities for getting quality wins would be beating KU or BU. And, to the extent that KU dominates conference play, it makes it more likely that there are a bunch of .500 or below conference record teams.
The saving grace may be that this seems to be a down year generally and other Power 5 conferences will be in the same boat....
@Texas-Hawk-10 I think that is perhaps over-generous or over-optimistic. The B12 is arguably much inferior to recent years. The conference typically has a few high profile non-conference wins at this point - usually KU has a couple, Texas often has one and maybe 1 or 2 others from the rest of the brethren.
This year, not so much. Questionable whether the entire conference has a quality win that will help with seeding - Villanova, Syracuse, Dayton??? Maybe one could argue that no one has a REALLY bad loss, but that is thin gruel. Two conference losses to a mediocre Georgetown team, TTU's 3 game losing streak, and the Bunnies losses would suggest that 6-7 teams this year is a stretch....
That has to be one of the ugliest 20 pt half time leads ever. Outrebounded by a bunch of 6ft guys. 2 rebounds combined by Doke and Dave. Let them shoot 48%. 7 TOs. 10 fouls.
That's some mighty fine execution on the offensive end 'Hawks....
@BeddieKU23 One might argue that at least that many B12 teams should be unbeaten at this juncture, given the quality of the schedules played.
B12 teams have only 5 non-conference losses thus far, which is fewer than any other conference. ACC teams have 8 non-conference losses (spread over 16 teams, of course). While B12 teams have thus far avoided any really bad losses, until Baylor's win against Villanova, there haven't been any really quality wins for the conference as a whole. Usually, at least the Jayhawks have 1 or 2 at this point.
The holiday tournaments should give us a better idea of the strength of the relative strength of the B12 and other conferences. Based on what we've seen thus far, it may well be like recent seasons - solid from top to bottom, with no bad teams, but not nearly as strong as other conferences at the upper echelon (KU expected, of course).....
Jank and Teahan outscore Ochai and Garrett!
@KirkIsMyHinrich Other interesting scores - UNC only up by 3 over Webber at half. Duke beat Ga St by just 11 at home. And Gonzaga up 40-19 over TX A&M.
Team shooting better than 57% - and that's with Ochai 1-9 (and Garrett 1-4)...
@Woodrow He's 0-6 - rest of the team is hitting about 70%
@BeddieKU23 Alas, missed two 3s
Bench is 17-19 from the field.....
@BShark That's probably our best 5, at least against most teams, and it looks like Enaruna will get the bulk of the perimeter sub minutes. Therein lies a problem. 2 games in and it looks like HCBS has already settled on his 6-1/2 man rotation. So much for depth....
I noted right after the Duke game that both Garrett and Dotson had played 38 minutes, and that wasn't sustainable over the course of the season. Then HCBS said the same thing in one of his pressers. But that's what happened again last night. Unless we're playing a cupcake, does anyone see that changing?
Right now, it looks like Dotson, Ochai, and Garrett will get 36+ minutes a game, Moss around 30 and Doke around 28 (barring foul trouble). Dave and Silvio will combine for just 15-18, and Enaruna will get almost all of the available perimeter minutes, unless Braun really picks it up.
Anyone see anything different???
@BShark Have we had a single drive and dish for an easy bucket in either game yet? I can't recall one...
@nuleafjhawk I'm not sure what @jayballer73 's problem is, but if Self were to leave, I agree with you and would definitely have Bennett number 1 on the list to replace. Without a doubt one of the best half dozen or so coaches in the game right now. Gets his players to commit to playing suffocating defense every possession of every game. Has won consistently without as much top tier talent as teams the Cavaliers face most nights in conference games (although the talent level has picked up the past few years). He's had 13 players drafted - 3 last year.
And, there is the small matter of being the most recently minted NCAA champion. Even more impressive in some respects is the fact that the Cavaliers have won the ACC regular season title 4 of the past 6 years - in a much, much tougher conference (certainly at the top) year in and year out than the B12.
I don't give a rats as about aesthetics myself - in fact, I enjoy watching teams struggling to score against them and routinely getting shot clock violations. And, Self likes to win ugly games, as well.
It's not a matter of choosing Bennett over Self or saying he is a better coach - but rather, who would be on the very short list of candidates to replace him. I have zero doubt that Bennett would be very successful at KU. Whether we could get him if Self left is another matter...
@BShark It's not just the pack-line scheme, but getting the players to completely commit to playing defense every possession and the entirety of each possession is what is most remarkable.
@benshawks08 Good insight. HCBS basically went with his starting 5 last night. Those 5 can be very strong defensively - control the boards and apply pressure - albeit with one glaring vulnerability - to a stretch 4 - as was demonstrated. It's on the offensive end that those 5 will likely struggle to score, at least against other athletic and disciplined teams.
The box score shows that we were 4-9 from behind the arc, although the shot chart shows 11 shots taken. Put aside Dotson's meaningless end of game banked 3, and we hit just 3 shots from behind the arc. Not sure but I believe they were all in the first half (was 1 of Ochai's in the second stanza?). But more remarkably, we did not make a single shot beyond those outside the paint all game. We had virtually no outside presence.
And, as you note, none of our perimeter guys are particularly good dishing the ball. While they drove the ball to the rim reasonably effectively (although not always finishing strongly), I don't recall a single instance of driving and dishing for an easy bucket. Our PG had 1 assist for the game! Basically, it's go downhill and hope for a put back if the shot is missed on the drive. That's not an offense.
None of Doke, Dave or Silvio are skilled enough or have good enough footwork to deal with quick double teams. But the only way to avoid that happening is to make teams pay by making outside shots - which isn't going to happen that often if Dotson, Garrett and Ochai are all getting 36-40 minutes a game.
The sky isn't falling - despite 28 turnovers and generally poor decision-making, we had a chance to win an ugly game, which is what HCBS likes to do. But, if we continue to go with 2 bigs and those 3 on the perimeter a substantial majority of the time, there are likely to be a lot of ugly games ahead....
Belatedly chiming in - was at the Garden last night for the games. Great atmosphere. Strong KU contingent, but Duke crowd seemed a bit larger, or louder. I bought ticket late and was primarily in with MSU fans - who were all rooting for KU (or againt Duke). Was also next to Milwaukee Bucks scout who had some interesting observations. Assume it came through on TV, but what was so apparent in person is that Doke, Dave and Silvio were all, as HSBC likes to say, "sped up." Bad footwork and poor (often slow) decision-making. And, because we had virtually no threat on the perimeter, it allowed Duke to throw multiple bodies at them. Really, no Jayhawk played well - Garrett was solid and Enaruna looked (surprisingly) comfortable, but that's about it. Having said that, playing as badly as they did (at least on the offensive end) and still be in a position to win with half a minute to go is a positive. One troubling "trend" is that Self, as he usually does, really shortened the bench in the second half, while Duke was substituting fairly liberally (4 subs with 10+ minutes). Our 3 perimeter guys all played 36-38 minutes. That's not sustainable over the course of the year. Maybe it was just that he really wanted to win this game...
@BShark Great question. If you go by 247sports list of the top 100 in the 2020 class, it's not clear that the answer is yes. Out of the top 50, 25 have signed or at listed at 100% predicted to a school. Out of the 51-100 pool, 40 are signed or 100% predicted. For the dwindling number of unsigned, KU is listed as one of the top two predictions just once - and that's second to OSU for Bryce Thompson.
I assume that HCBS and staff will pull some rabbit out of the hat once some of the unsigned players miss out on their first choices, but is there anyone out there that wants to play for KU???
Same for Bleacher Reports' last mock...
Appreciate the suggestions andguidance @BShark and @drgnslayr - I made the outreach to the Self's staff and the AD's office. Alas, no nibbles (or sips). Perhaps HCBS is just a beer guy after all as per @Marco.... Perhaps its just a matter of everyone being focused on and getting ducks in a row for good news from SDS, Tucker, Hampton et al.....
Now, now... I didn't intend for this to go down this path. And, just for the record, a 6oz glass of wine has just about the same number of calories as a can/bottle beer. Alas, I'm all too aware of empty calories in wine - if my wife and I have a bottle of wine for dinner (which is a regular thing), I end up drinking probably 60-65%, which means that I'm consuming more calories than a couple of beers.....
@Woodrow One of the true cult wineries. Not Screaming Eagle, but in the neighborhood. Chat with me and I can disclose.
Thank you all for your suggestions. Have initiated outreach to AD office. We'll see if there is any traction....
So, I'm wondering whether anyone on the board has thoughts about the best way to get in touch with HCBS?
I was at a dinner in CA last week with the owner of one of the true CA cult wines. Fabulous property in Napa Valley. Also, quite the collection of sports memorabilia at the estate. Among the items most prominently displayed are Duke, UK, and UNC basketballs signed by K, Cal and Roy (others from LeBron, Riley and the Warriors). I noted that conspicuous by its absence was the other basketball blue bood. The owner agreed and said they would love to host HCBS and rectify the oversight.
Don't know if he likes fine wine or has a West Coast recruiting trip scheduled, but I would love to get in touch with HCBS and find out if he would be interested in spending a day in Napa - of course, I would have to make the trip across the country myself to personally host... Would welcome any thoughts or ideas????
@KirkIsMyHinrich Refs don't allow defense to be played against Williamson. He is the one initiating contact almost every time he gets the ball in the paint. He gets calls, but rarely gets anything called against. Having said that, he is damn good and may be unstoppable at the next level...
@Kcmatt7 Ha - I don't want facts to get in the way of a good narrative.... ;) Thanks for setting me straight. But, has that been the rule or is this year an exception?
@Woodrow Are you saying we have to play in the transfer market generally or specifically now to fill an obvious hole? The latter may be be necessary given where we are, but not sure I agree with the former as general proposition. Has UNC relied on transfers? Seems that Roy has done a pretty good job of keeping guys around for at least 2-3, if not 4 years - not relying on transfers and in many years, not very many of the top recruits out of HS.
@BeddieKU23 Maybe so, but that doesn't excuse this performance. Again, they were a bit lucky to not lose against NMSU...
It's pretty clear that the B12 has a major talent deficit compared to ACC, SEC and B10
@approxinfinity 3rd bad pass by him. Being large and digging deep not in his DNA, I'm afraid...
I think Harper could play 1 on 5 on us and win....
And to think they were lucky to beat the mighty NMST Aggies...
Can we just once get back on defense and make then run a set or two???
They are scoring easily and we are struggling to get any kind of decent shot...
Right now they appear too quick for us.
@kjayhawks The question is why ISU could score at will against the Hawks, but go scoreless for 11 minutes against a mediocre OSU team???
One big negative for the game - major regression or maybe reversion to the mean for Grimes - 3 pts on 1-6 shooting and 1 RB and general lack of aggression....
@BShark It's why he may go #2 in the draft...