🏀 KuBuckets Archive

@HighEliteMajor I only “cry racism” when you write racist things. It’s not every answer but it is an answer you refuse to accept. I ask again where you are getting these percentages not as an argumentative tool but as one of curiosity. Just curious about your source.

Poverty, violence, trauma, racism are cycles and systems that continually feed themselves.

And you are definitely right that opportunity is a huge part of the answer. And just like there are percentages and degrees with racism, those same percentages and degrees exist with opportunity. Does everyone have an opportunity? Sure. The same opportunity? As many opportunities? That’s where you and I don’t see eye to eye.

And no I will never turn off my empathy. I’d encourage you to turn yours up a few notches but you are of course free to do and think what you choose.

If you really care about every life, which I truly think is an honest belief you hold, do some research about work being done to help people and consider funding some with that big salary you try so hard to hold onto. Assigning blame doesn’t actually fix anything.

Appreciation to @Crimsonorblue22 and @kjayhawks and all the others for doing the work.

@Crimsonorblue22 The personal responsibility folks are going to lose it over this, but research shows punishment in general has a negative impact on future behavior. Positive reinforcement is much better at eliminating negative behaviors. Same for dogs, kids and adults.

Decision is do you want to feel good about punishing someone or do you want to change the behavior. For some people the feeling is more important.

@kjayhawks I’d hope most people aren’t trying to be racist in 2019. I’m sure most don’t feel they are but it doesn’t mean the things they say and do aren’t. Being accidentally racist doesn’t make someone a bad person. Now, having it pointed out and continuing without changing starts a different story. An open mind is a wonderful thing. Open to learning about others and most importantly learning about ourselves.

@kjayhawks I’m not trying to insinuate that people don’t have agency in their actions. I am trying to make some people think about their own personal responsibility instead of talking only about how this is someone else’s problem. And again, the racism is undeniable, right? Tell me I’m not the only one who sees it for what it is.

@kjayhawks I tell my students almost every single day, “the only persons actions you can control are your own” but to say an individual has full autonomy to do whatever they want is just silly. If you didn’t believe your actions could have an influence on those kids, you wouldn’t do what you do. Surely as a foster parent you’ve seen the impacts an environment can have on a child. Thank you for fostering kids of all races, ethnicities and cultures.

It’s tragic the fear and trauma that a small child saying those kinds of things must have endured. Is some of that responsibility shared by the parent. Of course. Is it also shared by police and white people? Probably.

@HighEliteMajor Oh I didn’t realize you had a black friend. I retract my claim. You must not be racist.

You ask “WHY” and I really don’t know what you are referring him to. You say I’m afraid of the answer yet I see you didn’t answer any questions of mine. Wonder why that is?

Sorry fellow bucketeers, but my morals prevent me seeing racism and not calling it out. This is some of the most blatant racist ranting I have seen in a while and don’t think we should let it go unanswered.

If your not feeling anything or using your emotional capacity as a human being to impact your thoughts and actions you may need to seek some professional help. Emotions aren’t bad. They are a fairly significant aspect of the human experience.

@Crimsonorblue22 Thanks. The future is bright no matter how scared some people are of it. Kids get this stuff. Kids today seem to care about people more than money so that’s a start. At least the ones I know.

@HighEliteMajor odd that you say you don’t care what they look like but specifically describe the appearance of those that are your enemy. Don’t have to read between the lines to see that a person who says black culture is my enemy is engaging in racist thoughts and behavior. It’s hate speech. It’s amoral. That kind of blatant white supremacy is exactly what prohibits a whole lot of people from doing, earning, or achieving.

Side note, I have no idea what inanimate objects you are referring to.

Honest question, what is your personal responsibility? Does it end with you? Your partner? Your children? Your neighbor? Your city?

Sure a person of color has choice but can you honestly say they have the same choices as you? How often are you stopped by police? If you and a black person commit the same crime who do you think will get the harsher sentence? Did you get suspended from school for discretionary offenses? What’s the personal responsibility of the cop, the judge, the teacher, the principal?

Sure there is more choice now, but 1 generation ago there wasn’t. Every black adult has a family member who was by law prohibited from doing, earning, and achieving.

We do agree that in this case the athletes may have more power than they are using with respect to boycotts. Wonder if they’ve ever heard about any boycotts in the past? Think grandpa told them about sitting at a counter? Think an athlete’s aunt ever rode a bus?

And what about the people in power? What legacy was passed down from their families? If I’d have spent more time as a child with my uncle in Missouri who was a card carrying member of the KKK, how might my choices be different?

@HighEliteMajor @bskeet It's racism. That's the point you both are bouncing around but never actually touching. White people hate talking about racism because they can't win anymore. One of you (@bskeet ) understands at least innately if not explicitly that a big factor in this argument is the race a significant population of the players compared to the race of the significant population of the people in power. And so in your arguments you bring up former instances of racism like slavery.

The other (@HighEliteMajor ) definitely understands the racial element but seeks to remove it completely from the conversation because it's "social justice garbage" and if he pretends race isn't really a factor he can live in his land of logic where humanity is just weak feelings crap.
Anytime someone suggests an idea that might redistribute power from top down, those in power (or at least those that look like those in power) do what they can to maintain that power.

Of course college basketball and slavery aren't the same thing. Of course there is more choice for a college athlete today than for a slave in the 1800s or for current slaves today in the american penal system. However the RACISM driving the issue and argument is very much the same. It is impossible to discuss the conflict between a workforce made up primarily of people of color and executives who are primarily white without discussing race. I know it's scary for us whites but we'd be better off it we'd just call it like it is and talk about the stuff we are afraid of.

Some people aren't going to like this comment because it brings "politics" into a sports conversation but sorry, race is one of the biggest issues in sports right now. White sports fans look at black athletes making millions of dollars or getting "free rides" and think those folks should feel lucky, but ignore the white owners and execs making 100s of millions of dollars and maintaining systems that uphold that economic inequity. I'm sure HEM will argue that the owners "earned" those millions by working harder and being smarter. They didn't. They aren't.

@HighEliteMajor
I would just push the thinking a little farther and ask, is the money the NCAA generates helping the student athletes and general population as much as it COULD. As a non-profit, I personally feel that should be its goal. To me, too large a piece of that pie is being distributed amongst a small group of people who also happen to be the same people who make the rules.

Not a perfect analogy but it'd be like if I had my students do a fund raiser and at the end said, hmm.... as the person who was responsible for the ordering, tracking and the rest of the administrative duties of this fund raiser, I think I should keep 15%. If I'm the one making the rule not much the kids can do about it and they still are benefiting with 85% of the profits. In my case as a public school teacher of course this would be illegal (? maybe not illegal but I'd definitely get fired), but if I worked at a private school with less regulation...? Just because it is legal/within the rules doesn't mean it's right. (feel free to pick apart this analogy because as I said it is NOT perfect!!!)

@HighEliteMajor

It's weird because I do basically agree with you that the colleges themselves add value to these talented kids. I also agree that we love college basketball and would like it to continue. It just seems to me that there is some room for change without tearing the whole thing down. Just like with our Constitution. Amendments and new laws can always change the workings of government. That doesn't mean government no longer exists.

Systems are never perfect and tinkering with different elements has the potential to make things better for everybody. When tinkering some good questions to ask are, who created the system? Who is it working for? Who is it not working for? Or for the more business minded, What are the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats?

The real issue is that this change will not benefit EVERYBODY. It will benefit the majority of the labor but has potential to cut profits for the organization as a whole and therefore executives may actually make less money. A "non-profit" organization the brings in over $1 billion in revenue should have constant conversations on the allocation of those funds and how best to use those funds to serve the public. Decisions CANNOT be made with respect to profit or the organization no longer fits the definition of "non-profit."

Just going to end with the point the the existence of choice does not equate to freedom. It is also odd to me how vehemently you defend the rights of a system/corporation over the well being of people.

@chriz "Sending their kids wherever they think is best for them" is funny. Eighteen year old kids aren't super great at simply doing what they are told because an adult thinks it's best for them. But certainly parents play an important role in recruiting and they should share praise and blame for when things work out and when they don't.

As humans with brains and consciences they are capable just like the rest of us of making mistakes and letting money talk more than it should.

@jayballer73 In finance they talk about present vs future value of money. It's understood that the present value of a dollar is always more valuable than that same dollar in the future. Same reason why everyone who wins the lottery should take the lump sum.

I'd take the commit. Our roster is looking too thin to be very picky or to take big gambles. Also, seems like we are going to have plenty of spots open for all comers if you ask me.

@approxinfinity I don't think people are losing the ability to be impartial but it is certainly less valued in our current environment. With everything being about money you'd think being impartial and open to everyone would be ideal but advertisers have figured out is that targeted advertising is so much more bang for the buck than a broad appeal.

@dylans I think you're right that true impartiality is pretty much impossible but people can get continually closer by examining those biases your pointed out and others.

Seems like impartiality is a choice that fewer are making. Take the recent tournament for example. Sports casters always strive to be impartial but Charles Barkley was purposefully not. It was well documented and celebrated. I personally also enjoyed watching him cheer on his alma mater as I do.

Similarly most "news" channels are abandoning the goal of impartiality for ratings. Passion sells. I think it's more about the money than the tech. Technology is a tool that for the most part does what people want it to do. It could just as easily be used to create an environment supporting impartiality as it has been to take us where we are now.

Some interesting stuff from Kyle Korver on Privilege in Basketball.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba ↗

@kjayhawks Kill em with kindness and assume good intent. Those two things have gotten me a long way even with people who do NOT have good intent. I don't know much about Pre K systems especially in small towns. I do know that many systems build in loop holes or simply ignore their own rules in "special circumstances" and those special circumstances are always reserved for people of privilege. If you have enough money or know the right people you can usually get your way and that is often the sad truth. But that is more about the system and the people in power than other parents trying to do what's best for their kids. I also know if people look for disrespect and slights against them they can always find them. But the same can be said if they look for good. I'm not going to tell you you are being treated fairly or unfairly because I just don't know.

So much research is being done around autism right now that I truly believe your child has a bright future. Have you seen the movie Temple Grandin? HBO made it several years ago and it's based on a true story. It's certainly not representative of what ALL families with autism go through but it's a beautiful story about rethinking the way we look at things and treat people. I wish you all the luck and positivity in doing all you can for your kid.

@kjayhawks It all counts. It all counts. The whole point of talking about privilege is to get closer to understanding how much it ALL counts. No two people have the same experiences. That doesn't mean some people deserve less.

Your son is part of the many reasons we have to fight the privatization of schools. Private schools have no mandate to server your kid, public schools do. I taught special education for 5 of my 11 years. Your son deserves every opportunity and so does every other kid at his school. Public schools are farrrrrrr from perfect and I don't begrudge someone looking to a private school if it serves their child's needs better, but every kid needs access to a free and appropriate placement for education.

@wissox I tried to keep race out of it too for the most part, but it counts. Just like everything @kjayhawks said counts.

@BShark Systems is really the key, right? I believe most individuals are truly doing the best they can but systems and power can take even small biases and cripple large groups of people. Doesn't mean it was on purpose, but doesn't mean it should be ignored.

@HighEliteMajor Now we are getting somewhere even if you still haven’t answered most of the questions I posed. You are correct that opportunity matters but As you’ve pointed out multiple times not everyone gets the same opportunity. It’s just not possible. If we think about basketball, As a 5’8” male with a limited vertical I’m not going to get the SAME opportunities as someone 6’4” with a 45” vertical. Just so I’m abundantly clear, I’m not advocating that I should. America is the land I would say more than anything else of individualism. And that’s what allows you to make this argument about opportunity. You can always point to a few people who make it out of poverty or overcome certain obstacles. So as long as they can do it, why can’t everyone else?

The problem is though, that despite certain individuals successes, you can still fairly accurately predict a persons economic future of you know their zip code and their race. There are MORE opportunities in certain communities than others. That does not mean there is no opportunity for anyone but people with privilege are provided with more options. More choices. More fall backs and back up plans. To see this opportunity gap you have to look at results. As a basketball fan I can hope we agree that results do in fact matter more than opportunity.

The people in power in this country have implemented systematic oppression at all levels since it’s founding. That does not mean there aren’t great and amazing things about America. As you pointed out and I agree everyone (for the most part) has at least some opportunity to improve their station in life with hard work. That’s INCREDIBLE and not true everywhere around the globe. But thinking America is great shouldn’t prevent someone from pointed out how it could be better. The founders of the country built in a system to allow for that constant change. It’s what government is supposed to do.

But it can’t be ignored that there are others who improve their station or maintain it without hard work. Those who manipulate systems to give themselves an unfair advantage. Just as Coach K manipulates the refs so his team has 2 fouls called against it in 14 minutes of intense basketball. There’s nothing in the rules that prevent K from using his prestige and power to intimidate refs into making things go his way. Unfortunately human nature is to hold on to power. There have been loads of studies that demonstrate once a person has power they become significantly less empathetic to others and more willing to break rules or create new ones to maintain their power. But just because it’s our natural instinct doesn’t mean it’s the best way to live.

To your point about the real world we have some fundamental disagreements. I think there are lots of places in the real world where cooperation is valued over competition. Sports is not one of them obviously. It sports, despite the many metaphors claiming so, are not life. One persons success in life does not necessarily doom another to lose. It’s not a zero sum game.

My hope is that you can read and think about some of what we are both writing with an open mind. That’s my goal in this conversation. I want to think more deeply about this topic and understand where you are coming from. In doing that I’ve tried not to label you or make any assumptions about who you are as a person beyond what you’ve put on the page. I’m sure I’ve not been 100% successful in that attempt but it has been my goal.

Regarding the “normal teaching day” I’d be curious if you expanded your network of teachers you were familiar with what you would find on that topic. In my experience at a school for the last 11 years, most educators work about 9-10 hours a school day and then take a significant amount of work home with them, whether that be grading, planning, or in my case writing 42 letters of recommendation this year for my students who don’t have access to the connections some of their peers have. Add onto that coaching (yes there is a stipend that if you calculate $/hr usually comes out to about $7-15 per hour) and you have a pretty full schedule. Most of the teachers I know are ok with that not because they think that’s what they are worth but because they find the job provides worth because does good for the world and helps others. All motivation factors that have little to do with money or competition.

One more thing if I’m not in the real world as a teacher, what world am I in? Your neighbor sounds like a crappy teacher. Those exist. My partner had a terrible CEO once. Maybe all CEOs are bad? Or maybe that’s not how that works. Basketball coaches get fired and move to new schools all the time. Do they also not work in the real world?

@HighEliteMajor Are you also saying that unions prevent people from teaching? I thought in America no one is prevented from doing anything they want to do?

@HighEliteMajor Um... I was genuinely asking what period of America’s history you viewed most fondly not saying America isn’t good. But ok. I’ll continue to care about other people’s kids as much as you care about your own whether it makes you sick or not.

You can tell me how easy teaching is when you do it for a year.

I’m curious why you feel the constant need to attack any question or view that doesn’t line up with your own. Is it insecurity? Arrogance? Or is that just your preferred method of communication? It’s certainly not convincing so if your goal is to change my mind you might want to try a different strategy. I’m just trying to figure out where you’re coming from and it seems like you want me to feel bad for doing a job that I love for 40% of what you make. I’m not angry so I’m not sure why you are. Thoughtful honest discussion too much to ask for?

@HighEliteMajor If you start thinking about grants as an investment in the future of young people maybe it will be less hurtful to you when people who aren’t you get them. You have money to invest in your kids future. Others don’t.

Are some kids not worthy of investment because of the financial plights of their parents? If your answer to that is yes and you truly believe your kids deserve better than other kids than I’m really done with this conversation. If it’s no than do you have other suggestions on how those kids should “pull themselves up by their bootstraps”?

You are certainly correct in pointing out that most states have programs to support kids in the foster system to get into and pay for college. Yet 3% of all foster kids end up with a degree. Are you saying those kids are just not smart and don’t work hard? Or is it possible that their unique situation makes life for them harder than it is for other kids? I’m really not trying to be pointed with these questions. I genuinely want to understand what your answers are.

Also I’m just going to ignore the “those who can’t do, teach diatribe.” I’ve seen too many folks who lost their job during after the 2007 crash come into the classroom thinking they could do this easy job while they looked for “better work” absolutely fail and quit crying in the middle of the year. And just so we are clear most of those folks were men who came from the business world. Guess I did a bad job ignoring it. Must be because I’m a lazy leftist teacher who can’t cut it in the real world. I know this cuts my very real attempt to engage with you on this topic but come on man.

I’m also curious about what period in America’s history you think really made it so great.

@HighEliteMajor cool.

No one with privilege did anything wrong nor do most who use the term imply. However many who hear privilege in reference to themselves feel attacked and therefore lash out and whine about it being “unfair” to them. If you can pay for your kids school than pay for it. Some can’t. It has nothing to do with you. Understanding privilege is about recognizing that not everything is about you. Everyone encounters different circumstances so the concept of fairness is a fiction. Strive for equity not equality and we can lift everyone up. Some people don’t even have boots to lift themselves up by. And no the reality isn’t that any kid who works hard can get to college. Check the college going rate for foster kids. Find that number and tell me privilege isn’t real or is an attack tool by the “left,” the biggest enemy of them all apparently.

@nuleafjhawk The only reason I think I responded really was because it surprised me coming from you. I don't post on here a whole lot but I do keep up with the threads I find interesting. I've grown to expect certain things from certain posters and was caught off guard. Thanks for really thinking and not clapping back like anonymous posters are sometimes wont to do.

I'm a teacher so empathy is pretty important to me too. As I'm currently helping kids make decisions about going to college and what they can and can't afford I'm ALWAYS amazed at the struggle so many of my kids go through that nobody ever sees. You can just never tell what another person is going through at any given moment. I see the value in a degree and do what I can to help my students understand that value but other needs have to be met first before anyone can go out and try to better themselves and improve their future earning power. The poorer you are, the less opportunity you have to invest in yourself and the future. Privilege of all kinds are real and a lot of our current systems are set up to continue to benefit those that have over those that don't.

nuleafjhawk said:

We should start a FAN Declaration thread. Except we'd have the same issues with any other team. Our society has deemed that a player's potential is worth more than his actual worth. The players and their families are exceptionally greedy - I don't buy the sob story that they're poor and need the money - if they've been broke for 18 years, they can make it another 3 years and then they and their families really will be set for life (assuming they have a good agent and financial advisors).

I'd bet money (because I'm exceptionally greedy.....) that if you polled 100 players that had gone the OAD route, at least 80 of them (the 80 that are sitting on the bench or playing in Madagascar) would tell current students - STAY IN COLLEGE. Have some fun. Enjoy your life. This is a JOB.

Seems to me calling players and families you know little about other than what you see on TV "exceptionally greedy" is a bit much. Also, maybe if you've been broke for ONE year you'd know "making another 3" isn't really an option. The complete disregard for other people in this post is gross. Learn some empathy friend.

Also, people talk about potential vs. actual worth a lot. Truth is, a dollar now is worth more than a potential dollar in the future. I see posters writing about how this player or that should come back so they can make more money later, but there is absolutely ZERO guarantee of that. It's completely in the realm of possibility that let's say Grimes comes back, has a similar season to this one and his draft stock goes DOWN. Add to that potential for injury and yeah, I'm not going to judge (call greedy) any kid that makes a decision he/she thinks is best for their future.

You say "stay in college. Have some fun. Enjoy your life." Maybe for that person it's not fun and they are trying to enjoy their life.

On the fiery coach point, Self has ALWAYS looked to his players to be leaders. If you think back to Self's first year, that team had so much experience but seemed a little lost without their coach leading them. If you look at 2008, that team probably wins with one of us coaching them. I think this is the biggest reason KU has had success in years where players have experience and less success when the team is young. If Devon Dotson had come along 1 year earlier I think this year could have been salvaged and a sweet 16 and maybe even an elite 8 could have been possible. He's the next leader. If he'd had a year watching Devonte Graham (who had 3 watching Frank) I think he could have developed the leadership skills to carry this team. I'm not sure if he'll have it next year or not since he hasn't had any good role models to learn from on this team. I am confident he will get there by his junior year if he hangs around that long.

On the golf front, I also have the Nike VR forged irons. Got them a couple years ago replacing my Titleist 981s. I played on Friday and had one of the strangest rounds ever. I hit the ball well all day and never made a put inside of 3 ft. Even hitting the ball well I ended up shooting 45 39. Two birdies on the back helped!

The Ochai situation is what I don't understand. He seems like the best player on the floor at times. He's so fast and strong and confident. How was he a red shirt? How is he doing what he's doing now? When will the league catch up to him and start shutting him down? I just don't get it.

While I agree that Q looks like he is lacking in confidence more than anything else, I think the bigger culprit is the improved competition. His crossovers in those highlights just aren't devastating his opponents in the same way in college. He can't simply elevate over defenders on step backs. When has he ever beat anyone down the floor for a transition bucket? His speed just isn't elite and that's why we all love Dotson. Even vs. MSU, the game most regard as Q's best of the year, all his buckets came on catch and shoot 3s (6-10). He didn't go by people. He still only had 1 rebound.

Interestingly the one aspect from the highlight reel that is showing up on the court is his vision. He is routinely making at least one or two GREAT passes per game right now.

It's looking to me like Baylor and K-State both have 4 more losses coming based on their road schedule. I can really see us losing to KSU and then dropping one more to have 5 losses in conference. Looking at ISU's schedule leaves me thinking we split with them for the title at 13-5.

Anyone have a stream that works in Mexico?

I actually think trae young is a good example. He is clearly extremely marketable as a college player but has questionable professional potential based on size. Yes, he chose a school in a power 5 conference but not a blue blood. Had he chosen KU he would have been far less valuable due to playing time, style of play, and in house competition (Graham).

With the opportunity to earn real money off his image which was sold all over college basketball all season long, he very likely could have chosen to stay another year or even all 4.

And it would have to be quiet the argument to convince me that Young on almost any team wouldn’t be somewhat marketable. Really the blue bloods are the only place he wouldn’t be because he might not be the star.

Him returning would be better for him, the school, the Norman community, the conference, and the sport in general.

And yes the gap between say 200k and how ever much a mid-late first round rookie contract is still wide, but no nearly so wide as from 0 to that number.

Smaller schools may not be able to offer the exposure to get the full 200k but I promise there are businesses in every community that would love to engage more with these athletes. Why do car dealerships hire ex athletes? Why did Barry Sanders sell siding for a company in Wichita? This could actually improve the relationship between these athletes and their community.

@HighEliteMajor I don't begrudge rich people. I hope like you suggest they give as high a percentage of their income to charity as I do, maybe even more since they have more disposable income. I have a hard time begrudging institutions because they are generally set up for a specific purpose and generally do their best to achieve that purpose. I do however, begrudge systems that you say "permit folks avenues to compete and achieve" but don't provide an even playing field for that competition. I imagine you might protest if certain teams started basketball games with more points because they were favored to win. Or even if certain players are allowed more steps between dribbles because it looks like they have talent.

Also, where have I or anyone else genuinely argued that anyone should take someone's money and give it to someone else. I hope you weren't reading my last "argument" literally.

I work every day with kids from underprivileged backgrounds. Kids that have only one parent and multiple siblings. Kids who will be the first in their family to go to college. Kids who are learning their second or sometimes third language. Kids with disabilities. Kids who care for their siblings all evening because their parents are working 2-3 jobs. If you want to see what privilege looks like, come talk to my kids. Realize just how much where they are born, who their parents are, how much money their parents make, how much education their parents have, put them at a disadvantage to kids with different circumstances. Privilege is anything but a joke.

You know what else is a joke? The guy who focuses on every negative aspect of every game then spouting that "the one thing that is undeniable is that if you fixate on your challenges, you cannot achieve." Can more be accomplished by focusing on strengths? Sure. Scientific research says so. But we already know your opinion on "science."

@HighEliteMajor Ah yes, the ever leftist goal to deregulate a market. Clearly political.

Am I to understand that you are arguing that when discussing the financial dealings of college basketball we should "resist the urge" to do what "feels" right or what is "fair"?

It always strikes me as odd when people resist changing a system. Why not try to make it better? And if we are going to make it better, who should we make it better for? For me, my priorities would be the kids, then the schools, then the fans, and last the execs. I guess that could be construed as trying to redistribute wealth, but really I haven't even been arguing in this scenario that anyone should make less or give up anything.

One intellectual exercise I like to engage in is thinking about who wrote the rules? Why did they write them? Can they be improved? Are there any unintended consequences the authors of the rules didn't anticipate? If you are so inclined to care, you might even evaluate if the rules are equally enforced to all stake holders. Are actors at all levels of the system held accountable to the same degree? And remember during this process resist your OWN "feelings" and why not try to make it fair?

Now as a leftist by your definition I'm going to argue that instead of any money going to the players, instead all money that has been flowing their direction should instead be redirected to me. I'm stupid, unintelligent, and lazy and therefore need other people to do things for me. Please give me all of your money as well. I assume you are richer than me because you are smart enough to write so many words.

I also do not own the facility where I work around 50 hours a week, or any of the contracts, nor did I build it. Because of this I am paid no money and therefore need yours.

Thanks in advance for all the consideration and thought I'm sure you will give this post.

@Statmachine Right? People talk about how great capitalism is and how free markets are so great, but then only for SOME people. These other people shouldn't be allowed to participate because they can make all the money they want after they wait 9 months. Athletes are held to a completely different standard than the rest of the student body.

Here's the thing, we don't have to assume nobody would pay these athletes. They already are just secretly. We all knew it before, but it has been very loudly confirmed recently.

The real question isn't about whether or not these athletes can or should be paid; it's would you rather the payments be open and legal or hidden and possibly illegal? I say possibly because methods of payment seems to be part of how the feds have gotten involved.

@HighEliteMajor I'm surprised that someone who prides himself on crafting an argument and using logic is so quick to revert to slippery slope fallacies. Surely you know of the existence of the term but boldly use it in your own argument as if it's a logical consequence instead of a well known fallacy. What ifs and slippery slopes are simplistic tactics to scare someone into inaction. You like the status quo, that's fine. But if you are trying to make an argument for the status quo, do better.

Personally, if there are 100s of millions of dollars floating around, I'd rather distribute that money more evenly to the people I care about more, the players, instead of network execs, head coaches, and NCAA executives. Further, it appears, there is even MORE money out there the NCAA is trying to prevent others from making based on decades old rules based on decades older perceptions. I don't have a perfect solution, but change is needed and can continue to be implemented to make the system better. If one change doesn't work, or has unintended consequences, change it or close the loop hole or whatever. Progress and continual improvement is what sport is all about. Even the rules of basketball are in constant flux and rules are adjusted, abandoned, or changed nearly every year. The game survives and may even get better.

To me, the issue isn't about who drives the market or how much value the athletes have. The money is there. Clearly. A few are even getting that money now. Some are even getting money to try and push them to schools they don't even go to. I think the argument is, do we want this money to be forced to traverse back channels and be under the table to avoid breaking rules and even maybe end up breaking LAWS, or would it be better for the athletes if some of the rules were opened up to allow the money that is ALREADY flowing to them, to do so on the up and up. If the kids don't have value, they wouldn't be getting paid. They ARE getting paid already. And now the FB freaking I is involved in college sports simply because the NCAA is trying to control the flow of money to its players. I'd much rather open up some opportunities for athletes to make a little money, than force them to take weird wire transfers or find envelopes in mailboxes or whatever.

Accusing someone of being unable to accept something regardless of the evidence presented while using an analogy that denies human impact on climate change is....an interesting (?) argumentative choice.

But the game plan was to double at the beginning. I believe Self said something about adjusting mid game but the adjustment never really happened or worse only half happened with our players ending up somewhere between a double team and their man making it completely useless.

@BeddieKU23 yeah. That was my initial reaction too. I believe the commentator pointed out you can “get that shot anytime” but the problem is we couldn’t. Whether it was our offense or their defense, the ball never made it inside out. I think I counted 3-4 of those hero ball thees. Take those away and out inabilities to create open looks from three is even more problematic.

Just curious what people’s opinions are on the several quick threes Newman and Devonte took. On one hand you see a guy dribble down the court and pull a moderately guarded three without any passes and think bad shot. I think I even heard self get on one of them after such a shot. But it’s not like moving the ball and running offense got any better looks. I don’t know if they are actually bad shots or not in the context of that game. Any thoughts?

Nantz pointed out that Larry Brown was on the court talking to “Melvin” (it was Malik Newman).

Dole practiced free throws a lot.

Newman lived in the corners shooting threes.

Svi ended his practice by making like 10 threes left handed. Spot ups, step backs, fading in the corner. It was crazy.

Devonte ended the whole thing by making his half court shot on his first attempt.

"I just hope our fan base stays sober enough not fall in the river" - Bill Self

@jaybate-1-0 This looks eerily similar to Jay Jay's Duke scout. "Gotta get rebounds...Steal the ball" - Young Jerrance

I thought you ought to site your sources!

I do feel the real trough is coming for both teams as they will be shooting in a dome. That sight line has proven killer on all kids of shooters. I'll take Self over Wright (wrong) on the long prep though. If this were the second game... Bill always preps for the first and rolls the dice on the second if both teams are good.

Anyone see this from the KC Star? It's a fun little story of Howard's son doing a scout on Duke early in the season.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article206955224.html ↗

Not a bad scout really! How many elbow threes did Allen miss? Notice Billy gets a mention, so coaches were planning on him playing.

Future Director of Basketball Operations?

I saw odds that we were the 3rd most likely team to win the whole thing out of the 4. Keep on doubting them please! Chip, Chip, Chip, Chip...

@Barney The time I'm thinking about wasn't 1-3-1. I watched Allen follow Vick from the top left wing, through the pain to the other side almost all the way to the corner, then chase the ball across the arc as it swung the other way. Maybe he just got way out of position trying to keep the ball out of the lane, but it was the oddest defense I've ever seen. KU got the shot they wanted all day because they moved the ball and didn't rush. Turnovers and missed open looks are the only reason it was close.

@cragarhawk @Crimsonorblue22 I was looking at tickets and all I could find were $400 a piece. Yikes. I bought some a few years ago when they were in Dallas for $150 each but had to sell them when we lost in the elite 8. I was too superstitious to buy them again this year! I'm in Austin so it'd be a short drive but man it's pricey. And we really need a new couch so that might win out on the finances.

@jaybate-1-0 Referring to your morphing zone comments, at one point it looked like they were playing a box and one where Allen was simply chasing the ball. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. Hard to say whether the freshmen were out of position and he was just trying to cover for them or if that was the actual plan. It seemed somewhat planned as he slipped into the middle to take away the soft spot at the free throw line. But then he would just chase the ball for a while, which against KU is an ambitious task.

Totally agree about this being a TEAM now led by Self and Graham. Seemed like Vick had a lot of responsibility in trying to find those soft spots that were ALWAYS in different spots every time down the floor.

However, I did see a tweet from Quincy Acy about how he'd seen that play after the break that freed Silvio for the easy layup for four years vs. KU. He laughed that it was Tyshaun to T Rob for 4 years against the Waco zone! Rus Rob was also a great follow during the game. Awesome to see the passion for his old team mixed with the insider knowledge he has of Self and his systems.

@jaybate-1-0 So does 36.1% count as our trough? We were fortunate Duke had back to back troughs mostly due to Allen and Trent. Villanova troughed HARD against Tech. Pretty sure the next one (like all the ones before it) comes down to 3pt shooting again. The team that shoots 40% or above wins unless the other shoots 50! I wonder if Mitch will get more play vs. Nova. Not sooooo big big men that can stretch it might fit his game a little better than the last couple. Also, with guards that do some posting, Mitch could be big with the help side blocks.