@BShark Did you see Melo with my Rockets this year? There's a reason nobody signed him after he was released. Melo would get owned by Tatum today and not close. Carmelo has always been overrated as an NBA player to me.
Texas Hawk 10
9941 posts
Is KU back? Not yet, the current roster is decent, but lacks quality depth. Dotson and DeSousa are unknowns at this point and without Dotson, KU's back court is in serious trouble even though I think Garrett could run point just fine. With DeSousa eligible, KU can run a big line up with Doke and SDS starting and Dava and Mitch backing them up.
I just don't see any of the current freshman having a big impact this upcoming season.
Until these question marks are answered, I can't say KU is back yet.
Is he going to play the 3, or will he end up a stretch 4?
Marco said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 But who else is outrecruiting him? I might be out of the loop. I'm not sure that Howard knew that the players, all highly regarded, would be busts.
He's only landed 3 top 50 recruits, not especially impressive considering how long he's been here at this point.
Norm and KT both have a better track record in recruiting than Howard does. Howard is KU's weak link in recruiting.
@Marco How is Howard the obvious keeper? His recruiting has been less stellar his entire time at Kansas. The two highest rated recruits he's ever signed have had major issues. Cliff Alexander with the NCAA and Quentin Grimes and Cliff were both busts on the court. He's only landed 3 top 50 recruits ever as an assistant coach.
To me, Howard has always been the weakest link on the coaching staff. Recruiting slipped under him as he has had a lot of high profile misses.
Sean Miller will pop up as an NBA assistant coach soon enough.
bcjayhawk said:
@jayballer73 Jimmy Butler spent his freshman year at Tyler Junior College in Tyler, TX and then he was offered by Marquette where he played his sophomore, junior and senior years.
Had some friends that played against him in HS here in the Houston area, second best HS players I've seen in person after Grimes.
This obviously doesn't indicate future pro success, but Butler was a little bit of a late bloomer whereas Grimes may have peaked in HS.
@HighEliteMajor It's amazing all the information that comes out during a trial about a school when their head athletic trainer goes to prison for sexually assaulting minors.
@BShark Their entire athletic department is.
@HighEliteMajor Izzo may not be responsible for directly for a player's actions, but he is responsible for how he handles the matter when it happens and there's been plenty of stories of MSU admins looking the other way in regards student athletes committing sexual assault. Tom Izzo works for the school that allowed Larry Nassar to happen.
Izzo's hands are not clean and I also think it's very naive to think MSU has never had a player funneled to them by Nike. Just because Izzo refused to get involved with Brian Bowen, doesn't mean he hasn't been involved with other players.
Do we know for a fact Silvio can't guard away from the basket? He didn't exactly have time to learn the system when he came in. As athletic as he is, I would imagine SDS could guard wings and stretch 4's pretty easily knowing the system.
Honestly, I would call SDS a traditional 4 rather than a pure 5.
@nuleafjhawk There's talent here in the city, it's just not top end HS talent for the most part. The best player to come from this city in the past 5 or so years is DeAaron Fox.
In the 2019 class, only 4 of the top 32 players from Texas are Houston area kids based on 24/7 rankings.
@nuleafjhawk Grimes was a man among boys here in the Houston HS scene. For being as big as Houston is, we really don't produce a lot of top tier HS basketball talent. Dallas has always been the superior HS basketball city.
FarmerJayhawk said:
Marco said:
@FarmerJayhawk Lol, I understand. I remember, both football and basketball was it not? Fixing grades or the equivalent? Which would have made for many ineligible players, yet no probation.
The grades were all legit. The classes themselves... not so much.
Once the UNC got to that point of fake classes offered to regular students as well, it crossed the line from an NCAA issue to a Department of Education issue that should have been investigated by the government to determine appropriate punishment and accreditation issues.
He's not a grad transfer and is a pretty big bust for a top 50 recruit. He's never averaged more than 10 mpg. This would be a hard pass for someone who would have to sit a year to only play one. He needs to go to a mid major school to finish out his career.
@Marco If Silvio was aware of how CBB recruiting worked, he would've ended up at Maryland and not Kansas.
@HighEliteMajor Silvio was not an adult when he came to this country and he was not legally an adult most of his recruitment and did not have any say in who his legal guardian was here in the US. Silvio was 15 when he came to the US and did not turn 18 until October of 2016 which was his junior year at IMG. Silvio was a victim in this case and his name is only mentioned because he didn't play the game and made his own decision. Silvio doing what was best for Silvio and being ruled ineligible for that does make him a victim. Had Silvio gone to Maryland, his name never gets mentioned and he doesn't have eligibility issues.
Also, Pat Forde's long time anti-KU bias had a huge impact on how he wrote that article. He never misses an opportunity to bash KU. What his article fails to mention about the Adidas deal are two very specific clauses that allow either side to opt out of the contract should either party be found guilty of major infractions that tarnish the image of the other. Those clauses are very important because it means neither party is 100% tied to the other until 2031.
@HighEliteMajor You really going to take Missouri alum and long time KU hater Pat Forde seriously? That man is not capable of writing objectively about anything KU related.
I do believe Silvio is a legitimate victim in this case due to being naive about HS recruiting in America. I do genuinely believe Silvio was unaware of the dirty dealings of his guardian because that's not the culture in Africa.
It doesn't absolve others of their actions, but I don't believe Silvio or other new to America recruits realize how that game works because it's the game they're told about.
@BeddieKU23 As close to graduation as Doke is, I can't imagine him leaving to go straight overseas without attempting the NBA route first. If he leaves KU this year, it'll be to the NBA. If he doesn't declare, he'll be back for his senior season.
I would still love to see Garrett as the lead guard and move Dotson off the ball to free him up to shoot more 3's.
If KU landed Hampton, I suspect the back court would be Dotson, Hampton, and Agbaji with Garrett off the bench since Garrett can guard 1-4. Unless KU lands someone who can immediately start at the 4, I suspect that KU will be back to having a 4 guard line up with Garrett at the 4 on defense.
@HighEliteMajor I believe Self has no knowledge of the specifics on the dealings between runners and the players/guardians because he wants to keep plausible deniability of potential violations. I believe he has always known it has gone on does what he can to not be directly involved so he can claim innocence.
I do believe Self when he says that he has never cheated at KU l, specifically himself, and has no knowledge of cheating because he doesn't want to be told of what it takes to bring players in. I believe this is how most coaches deal with this issue, essentially burying their heads in the sand to keep themselves from being directly responsible.
I'm also not arguing that Gassnola is a high character person because I don't believe that. What I do believe to be true in most cases is that after a person has already plead guilty to charges and still testifies, he has very little reason to lie under oath. Guys who plead not guilty do have more reason to lie by deflecting blame off of themselves the way Gatto and Dawkins did in their trials.
Most people consider Jose Canseco to be a scummy person, but he was proven to be right about a lot of things regarding steroids in baseball during the 90's.
@HighEliteMajor Gassnola plead guilty to the charges against him. His cooperation was for a reduced sentence, not to avoid jail time. His memory also only went "spotty" in reference to the coaches he was working with, not when it came to Gatto or Dawkins. The FBI's case was about Shoe Co. reps defrauding universities, not whether coaches had committed NCAA violations.
Also, please tell me where in my post Insaid or even implied that Silvio should or would be cleared by the NCAA because that would go against everything I've said on the matter since Gassnola's testimony was made public.
Find me a program that's clean and I'll guarantee that program finishes at or near the bottom of their conference just about every year. College basketball has been corrupted since WWII ended.
@HighEliteMajor I trust Gatto's testimony as far as I could throw him. Gatto was going to say what he needed to say to claim he didn't defraud KU which is why he was on trial.
TJ Gassnola is the one whose testimony I trust because he wasn't trying to prove his innocence. Gassnola testified that he didn't make the $20,000 payment because the investigation was announced before Gassnola could make the payment.
I also don't see Silvio ever getting cleared because the reason for the $20,000 payment that Gassnola said was never made was because of a $60,000 payment from Under Armour.
jayballer73 said:
Silvio has declared for the NBA Draft - - yet if he wins his appeal - his attorney and him says he will be coming back. - Just read this off the phog
This is what he should do.
@BucknellJayhawk3 The biggest issue with Bennett's system is the tempo. Playing that slow means lower scoring games which makes them more vulnerable to upsets because a hot shooting team can beat them which is how they usually go out in the tournament.
@Fightsongwriter KU only hangs banners for conference titles, Final Four's, and national titles. I think it's pretty clear what the program's goals are each year.
MacVittie and Locklin looked the most impressive at QB tonight and Ezra Naylor looked really good at WR as well. The running the game looked good as well and should be better with Pooka added into the mix at some point this summer probably.
The defense still looked like a work in progress with shifting from a 4-2-5 to a 3-4.
@stoptheflop Here's several reasons why coaches don't format a spring game that way.
-
Not everyone is on campus yet
-
Injuries
-
Depth charts aren't set yet so coaches still want to see how players perform in different spots.
-
Many positions have players switch between 1st and 2nd teams for reasons like fatigue or specific packages
-
That is a boring format for people watching in the stands and on TV.
kjayhawks said:
Remember folks Dook and Coach K have had the best recruiting class for 3 years running. Zion, Barrett and guys are winning all sorts of awards now that the season is over. But they only have a ACC regular season and tournament title to show with zero FFs. That alone makes me surprised that Coach K has came out in support of the OAD rule. At this point could because of NIKE's checkbook. Self's best teams have had 1 or zero OADs or transfers on them. Auburn and Virginia had several guy rated in the 70s or higher. We just need to get the right guys, I think this is a lesson that Self and co are learning right now.
Duke didn't win the regular season title. They actually haven't won an ACC regular season title since 2010.
@Kcmatt7 Second round picks don't have guaranteed contracts and don't sign for enough to be set for life if that's their only contract which does happen. Playing pro ball in Europe doesn't make one rich either unless you're among the best of the best in Europe.
The only reason a projected second round pick should stay in the draft is of their projected to be undrafted the next year if they stay.
Grimes is an example of someone who should not be leaving at this point. If he's even drafted, it'll be a non guaranteed deal. Based in how he was playing at the end of this past season, had he stayed for his sophomore year and built off those last few games, he likely would've played himself into being a first round pick instead of the second round/undrafted player he will likely be this offseason.
For sure returning will be Dotson, Garrett, Agbaji, McCormack, and Lightfoot. I don't think Doke returns, nor should he return. His injury history is one that he should go make what money he can, while he can. I also don't see Silvio ever getting cleared because his case is not a matter of just $2,500, it's $62,500 that has allegedly been paid to his guardian and could've been $82,500 had Gassnola made that payment. There's no way in hell Silvio ever gets past that.
@dylans Ochai grew up in KC, parents played at another school, sister plays for Texas. He didn't have any real direct KU connections other than growing up the KC area. As @Kcmatt7 noted about MoKan Elite, that's always been a Nike program and their elite players have always gone to Nike schools. Agbaji is the only MoKan player I'm aware of that ended up at KU.
Mitch was a born and bred Jayhawk. Mitch could have easily gone on to star at a Mountain West program and been an all-conference performer in that league. Instead, he chose KU knowing he was going to play fewer minutes than other places and possibly never be a major factor in the rotation.
Mitch is the lone Jayhawk on the current roster that I would believe is clean in regards to beneifts.
approxinfinity said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 great point. But that raises a few questions.
To what extent do you think UVA or TT pays to play? To what extent were kids directed there by the shoecos? To what extent were the kids paid to play under Self at Orel Roberts or Tulsa? To what extent did the Shoecos direct kids there? How much less fun has recruiting gotten for Self over time?
The difference is the amount of money involved. There's probably very few cases of someone not taking something at any of these schools. The exceptions would likely be hometown kids or lifelong fans.
Mitch Lightfoot is the only current KU player I would reasonably believe didn't take anything to come to KU.
@approxinfinity Self could also very easily be referring to having to deal with Adidas/Nike/UA in order to get recruits and not enjoying the dirty nature of recruiting.
Every successful basketball program is guilty. Every head coach knows what's going on and probably organizes a lot of the dealings. They don't get busted on it because it's a system set up for coaches to have plausible deniability of accusations. Players getting paid for to attend a school has been going on since the end of WWII. I would bet money KU and Phog Allen didn't land Wlit without giving Wilt some type of incentive to head out to Kansas.
joeloveshawks said:
4 guys now either gone to the draft or transferring. Maybe more to come. I can’t believe I’m saying this but is this a situation where there is smoke there is fire? Do these kids know that KU is going to be in some sort of legal trouble this year. Please let that just be my paranoia.
I don't think so. This was always a possibility entering the season. The only departure so far that wasn't really discussed back in the summer was Moore. Both Lawson's were discussed as a possibility, Grimes was an assumed OAD, and Doke and SDS were also discussed as possible early exits as well.
This is just playing put as worst case scenario for maximum departures.
Didn't even realize Pitino had been begging for the job. UCLA screwed this up about as bad as they could have. Cronin is a solid choice and his style can won at UCLA (similar style to Howland), but can he recruit out there is the big question.
Barnes and UCLA was never going to be a good fit. Barnes has zero west coast ties so that was going to be a struggle for him.
Dixon made a lot more sense because Dixon is from LA and grew up in the shadow of UCLA.
I think this also shows that UCLA really isn't a top tier job that many think it is based on the people turning the job down.
dylans said:
Josh was better.
Selby actually hasn't had a bad career over in Europe and Asia. He's been a 2× Israeli League all star and that's one of the better leagues over in Europe/Asia.
I also fully believe KU probably wins the 2012 national title with Selby on that team.
Kcmatt7 said:
That's funny... Leaving his alma mater. What a slap in the face.
It's really not though because Dixon is from LA and grew up in LA. He was also mentored by former UCLA coach Ben Howland.
UCLA has probably always been Dixon's dream coaching job having grown up with the program.
@wissox I have connections to the Grimes family (know people who know the family), don't hold your breath on Grimes coming back is my opinion on Grimes. He should come back because he needs a solid full season instead of a few games at the end of the year to show his worth, but it sounds like Grimes is dead set on being a OAD like Josh Selby was.
wissox said:
I don't know why guys are just point blank proclaiming so and so will leave like it's a fact? Grimes will leave, Doke will leave, Dedric will leave, I keep hearing people say this as fact. I understand speculation. But good grief, are you texting these guys? Are you Self's bff's so he tells you everything?
KJ announcing that he's transferring is pretty much the writing on the wall that Dedric is leaving. It's pretty much always been assumed they were a package deal and with KJ going, it's probably just a matter of time until Dedric declares.
BeddieKU23 said:
Jalen Lecque will try and go to the NBA from High School. Looks like he'll have a good chance of getting approved to do so.
As my friend told me who worked with him this season, he has some bad influences in his corner. Huge gamble for this kid. Needs a lot of work.
This is my fear with the OAD rule disappearing. After LeBron, there was a significant increase in the number of HS kids entering the draft and that was 15 years ago before YouTube and social media existed. Now, I fear that so many HS kids will have a false sense of how good they are and will ruin their lives by declaring for the draft, hiring an agent, taking impermissible benefits, being told they aren't good enough for the NBA, not able to go to school, and not able to play pro ball anywhere.
The NBA and NCAA really need to work together on this so that kids don't ruin their lives because I can already see 20+ HS kids entering the draft and doing everything to ruin their potential college careers when they aren't drafted or invited to a Summer League team.
dylans said:
@approxinfinity Explain to me again why Malik isn’t with the program this season???
Same reason Wayne Selden left after his junior year. Their draft stock was only going to decrease the following year. Leaving when they did was their best chance to catch on with a team during Summer League.
kjayhawks said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I hope not but cant say that I remember much of his time at OSU and didnt really watch LSU.
LSU is the other team I follow besides KU since I'm originally from Louisiana. Clock management was a frequent issue for Miles. When that's your worst fault on offense though, not the worst thing in the world.
If one of the QB's really flourishes under Koenning's system, I really wouldn't be that shocked if KU went bowling next season. I think the OLine will be fine, it's just a matter of having a passing threat so teams can't key on Pooka all the time.
@kjayhawks Clock management has never been a big strength for Les Miles. Don't expect significant improvement in that area.
@KirkIsMyHinrich Reddish doesn't play in the paint, he'sa perimeter oriented player so he's not going to have a bunch of rebounds. Never mind that despite his shooting, he still averages 14 ppg as the number 3 option and almost 2 steals a game on defense.
Reddish is the guy that can do everything and him being injured is going to negatively hurt Duke quite a bit.
@KirkIsMyHinrich Cam being less than a 100% or not even playing today is going to negatively affect Duke no matter how much you want to dismiss him. Bad players don't stay top 10 picks so obviously Reddish brings alot more to the table than shooting which seems to be the only aspect of his game you think matters.
@KirkIsMyHinrich Sorry, but players who suck all year are not still currently projected as top 10 picks in the draft this year, unless Grimes is also still projected as a top 10 pick. Reddish must not suck as much as you think he does to still be a top 10 pick.
@jayhawkcsg Ripping a 21 year old because he didn't play up to expectations after he's announced his intention to move on just comes across as low class and petty.